Conspiracy of Big Pharma

a reply to: TerryDon79

Pretty much yes.

The science is correct and the treatments are not fake but the people in charge do have a habbit of misusing and misselling.

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: TerryDon79

Pretty much yes.

The science is correct and the treatments are not fake but the people in charge do have a habbit of misusing and misselling.

Thanks for your input. It's appreciated

Nice to actually learn something that someones not spouting off as truth without any knowledge of how the system work.

it's not a conspiracy. they make us sick, then tries to cure us and charges us. good business.

originally posted by: reddragon2015
it's not a conspiracy. they make us sick, then tries to cure us and charges us. good business.

And with what do "they make us sick" with?

originally posted by: crazyewok
a reply to: rickymouse
Difficult one to answer.

Current company no, never told to omit things ever. If something pops up that shouldn't be there it has to always be investigated as a deviation. Even if its a tiny thing.

But we also have standard set procedures of testing we cant deviate from and must always follow the SOP. But that is not just a internal thing, most regulatory body's demand such practices due to the fact it makes its easier to back trace things and so harder to impossible to cover illegal activity in the lab.

BUT


I have quit one job in the past due to the fact they asked me to omit things.
Infact a lot of the people I have worked with have quit jobs for similar reasons.
If you want to find the pharma company's with the worst lab practices then look for the companys with the highest turn over of scientists and technicians as they ha e trouble hanging on to staff as generally we are pretty integral people.

I never thought of that. But I do not know where a person could find this kind of info.

Even then, these companies do make legitimate drugs, but sometimes they are misrepresented. Other times they are presented as better than another medicine that is tolerated by a patient well and the change causes problems. New is not always better for everyone. If a person cannot break down a medicine and excrete it properly, they are not defective, they just are intolerant to the medicine. I see a lot of varied possible intolerances in the genetics information I read as to medicines. Hopefully they get that up and running, it could be used to adjust the dose a bit in the example above.

A smaller dose could be enough and a person's size would be irrelevant. Actually body weight should not even be considered in dosage sometimes, only as related to titration. Once titrated, dosage should be lowered and less side effects would occur.

There are multiple genes in my genetics that show a reduction in ability to detox many meds. If they would have known that it would have been a lot better on me. A quarter of the dosage given would have been better, the reduction of detox could have worked with that. I am at about thirty percent effective in detox of that chemistry. It was not the doctor's fault in this case, she had no way of knowing, what they were looking for in the blood tests each month was a chemical from a dying liver. My liver started calcifying instead.

originally posted by: reddragon2015
it's not a conspiracy. they make us sick, then tries to cure us and charges us. good business.

How is that not a conspiracy?

Nevertheless, I don't see how they 'make us sick'. But I can see them prolonging the ailment for profitable gains (the pharma companies, not the doctors themselves)

originally posted by: TerryDon79
So is it possible that, when you have hope of a product from "big pharma" and that product doesn't work for you or someone you know or gives the worst side effects that the person then loses hope and just wants someone to blame?

It might be possible but I don't know the mind of someone with a disease. The disease might not be anyone's fault and no one has to make a cure and something might be better than nothing even if it's a drug that doesn't work.

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: reddragon2015
it's not a conspiracy. they make us sick, then tries to cure us and charges us. good business.

And with what do "they make us sick" with?

I do believe the mind drugs part of big pharma is evil, they have people who say someone is ill and can do so without proper scientific proof. Then there is the suggestion mentally ill people might be dangerous and a lot of people agree with the system out of fear of those mentally ill, who might then be forced into a mental hospital or drugs. Now I don't believe all mental health care workers are evil but it does strike me as a system who says there's a problem and also that they have a cure and there's no organization to check that system. Or there might be but they are just part of the sham. Still not a conspiracy, just oppertunistic people taking advantage of the weak of society and other people who don't mind seeing those individuals locked away out of society.

a reply to: TerryDon79

I used to think there was, until I stopped smoking pot. Now I'm changing my mind on many conspiracies. How odd.

Here is one example currently moving through the court systems.
www.drugwatch.com...

In 2007, Purdue issued a statement claiming OxyContin’s labeling warned about the dangers of potential drug abuse and the company wasn’t responsible for individuals who abused it. Multiple states also filed lawsuits against Purdue, and the cases were consolidated to federal court, according to USA Today. There, Purdue plead guilty to charges of marketing OxyContin as less addictive than other drugs and as more difficult to abuse. It also admitted its conduct allowed more OxyContin to be illegally available, leading to a $634.5 million settlement. Three company executives were also charged with felonies but avoided paying fines.

And another : migration.kentucky.gov...

Attorney General Conway announced today that Kentucky joined with all other states and the federal government in reaching an agreement with Warner Chilcott PLC (“Warner Chilcott”), a pharmaceutical company with U.S. headquarters in New Jersey, to resolve civil and criminal allegations that the company paid kickbacks to induce the prescribing of nine of its drugs, and falsified health program coverage paperwork to ensure federal and state reimbursement. “Reckless promotion of drugs resulting in false claims to state and national healthcare programs is unacceptable,” said Attorney General Jack Conway. “Drug companies that exploit Kentucky taxpayers’ through improper and deceptive marketing practices will face the consequences.”

And another: migration.kentucky.gov...

Attorney General Conway announced today that Kentucky joined with other states and the federal government in reaching an agreement with PharMerica Corporation, which provides prescription medication to long-term care facilities, to settle civil allegations that PharMerica conspired with Abbott Laboratories through a number of disguised kickback arrangements to increase overall utilization of the drug Depakote and to promote the usage of Depakote for purposes beyond which it had been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Depakote is used to treat seizures and manic depression episodes. The states contend that from January 1, 2001 through December 31, 2008, PharMerica knowingly solicited and received illegal kickbacks from drug manufacturer Abbott in the form of rebate agreements that required PharMerica to engage in certain promotional programs, grants and other financial support. This alleged conduct resulted in over-prescribing Depakote that amounted to false claims to Medicaid and other federal healthcare programs. “Reckless promotion of drugs resulting in false claims to state and national healthcare programs is unacceptable,” said Attorney General Jack Conway. “Drug companies that exploit Kentucky taxpayers’ through improper and deceptive marketing practices will face the consequences.”

Another: migration.kentucky.gov...

Attorney General Jack Conway joins 48 others states in reaching a $71 million settlement with Amgen Inc. to resolve allegations that Amgen unlawfully promoted biologic medications Aranesp and Enbrel. Aranesp is used to treat certain types of anemia by stimulating bone marrow to produce red blood cells. Enbrel is used to treat a number of conditions, including plaque psoriasis. The settlement filed today alleges that Amgen violated state consumer protection laws by: (1) Promoting Aranesp for dosing frequencies longer than the FDA-approved label without competent and reliable scientific evidence to substantiate the extended dosing frequencies; (2) Promoting Aranesp for anemia caused by cancer without having FDA approval or competent and reliable scientific evidence to support it; and (3) Promoting Enbrel for mild plaque psoriasis, even though Enbrel is only approved by the FDA to treat chronic moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. “Reckless promotion of drugs for uses for which they are not approved and may in fact be harmful is unacceptable,” said Attorney General Jack Conway. “Drug companies that profit by risking Kentucky consumers’ health through improper and deceptive marketing practices will face the consequences.”

Another: migration.kentucky.gov...

Attorney General Jack Conway announced his office and 48 attorneys general joined the federal government to reach a settlement with manufacturer Inspire Pharmaceuticals, Inc., a pharmaceutical company with its U.S. headquarters in Illinois. This resolution settles allegations that the company violated the False Claims Act by misleadingly marketing its drug AzaSite. It is alleged that these misleading practices caused doctors to write prescriptions for a non-FDA approved use that resulted in Medicaid and federal healthcare programs paying millions of dollars in false claims.

These are just some of the cases in our Commonwealth over the past year or so.
Please note that in most of these cases a "settlement" is reached and nobody goes to jail for the damage they've caused to our citizens. Currently there are citizens out there who are attempting to discover where all the monies from these "settlements" are being held/spent.

a reply to: Ghost147

This is the thing they don't tell you. Side effects. They are salesmen who work for pharmacy companies. Their moto
"Treat little by little, don't tell them the cures".

You were doing great with diet and exercise, why change such a great routine?

In our last 40 years our chemical revolution has led to nothing short of a set back rather than progress, the use of synthetic compounds, chemicals that mimic our hormones found in foods, cleaners, baby products, cosmetics, how we grow food, dust, lakes, oceans have wreaked havoc on human and animal life.

World Health Organisation

So this is sort of a conspiracy in itself as the pharmaceuticals profit directly from the conditions these endocrine disruptor bring. Men are becoming more feminine, fertility is down, many many developmental issues in children. This is a circus and a playground for science, I should the malpractice of science. and BIG PROFIT

Here are tons of papers and if you google some more you can find lists of these disruptor and who includes them and what they effect :

found here

Does this qualify?

I don't actually think there's a big pharma conspiracy any more than doing what any other corporation will try to do to make more money.
Certainly years ago there was very underhanded behaviour from both a corporate side and a sales side in pharma however now this has been largely removed due to various laws and standards brought in by hospitals and clinics.
For instance in the UK, a sales rep has to register his visit to the vast majority of NHS hospitals with a central database each time he (or she) goes there. They are not allowed to bring any gifts in (maybe the odd box of doughnuts) and any sponsorship offered has to go through several levels of compliance and ethics reviews (depending on what it's for and the amount offered).
This isn't to say that coercing doesn't happen any more, it does. But it's more transparent and the end users have more freedom of choice because of this.
They don't feel as obliged to use a particular company's products as they may have done a decade ago.


This brings me onto another point though (as I like to provide a balance)

BIG PLACEBO

This covers any "alternative medicine" which falls outside of the legislation of real medicine (and by real medicine I mean medicine that has passed the umpteen hurdles to be brought to market and through clinical testing has been found to be safe and effective).

Last year, in the USA alone, big placebo was worth over $50 BILLION.
Yes, that's $50 billion.

That's $50 BILLION that they have made without having to prove that it does absolutely anything let alone what it's being touted for.

So, what's the bigger con?
A highly regulated and continually monitored healthcare business?
Or a business pretending to care for health?

yes, this is nothing new as it is happening in all other areas as well, in my opinion.
If one is focused on Big Pharma, than I really recommend this documentary:



here is a detailed description about how How Big Oil Conquered the World - this is also the title of the documentary. And it has A LOT to do with big pharma and with just one man - Rockefeller. And how he stirred medical universities, foods company, etc. etc...

I think we have a lot to "thank" him and others powerful man in his circles for how the world is today.

There are a lot more documentaries about these things and I recommend it only if one has the heart to stomach it all. It is a really ugly world we live in, in this context and if only HALF of these stories are true! And I bet the sad part is the truth is a lot bigger part of these stories....

So how can people still think that we have any hint of honesty and transparency available for the normal working citizen is beyond me....EVERYthing is about profit for the 1% rich guys in my opinion as if they don't have enough power and money as it is...I think at this point greed for power and not so much for money only gets endless for these people.

When will we put a stop to this nonsense?
we as a normal citizens of the world have the real POWER in numbers. But we don't have minds as one and are divided on so many stilly things that we just cannot come together as one powerful force, a force to change false things and false values. Which the 1% is in control of since very long ago...

imho.

By the way I'm happy to answer any questions you guys want in the production, QC and R&D side of pharma/biotech.



Though there some information like we're I work or some information on what I work on I can't really awnsor for saftey reasons and the fact I want to keep my job and not get sued :p

a reply to: Ghost147

I had asthma really bad as a kid. I ended up in the hospital several times. It went away when I was a teen. I've been smoking for 25 years since I was 14. I haven't had a severe attack since I started smoking. Since then I've had maybe 3 minor attacks over the years. When the humidity is high I have a hard time breathing sometimes. I've been using an inhaler for the past 2 months. It helps a lot and I haven't had a return of my asthma. Having been a smoking for 25 years I breath pretty well. I don't cough much either compared to other people I know. I only use my inhaler a few times a week.

My grandmother had asthma and grew up on a tobacco farm. She started smoking when she was 10. She use to pluck leaves right off the plant and dry them out. She lived to be 79. She used inhalers all the time. The last 5 years she was on oxygen.

I've seen no conspiracy involving inhalers. Asthma does exist and for most people inhalers do work. I highly doubt inhalers cause asthma.

originally posted by: luciferslight
a reply to: Ghost147

This is the thing they don't tell you. Side effects. They are salesmen who work for pharmacy companies. Their moto
"Treat little by little, don't tell them the cures".

You were doing great with diet and exercise, why change such a great routine?

erm by law ALL side effects have to be listed and publicly Available.

originally posted by: TerryDon79
As was brought up in another thread, is there really a "Big Pharma" conspiracy or is it more down to bad doctoring, commission based sales of drugs and misdiagnosis?

I know it's not a massive post, but it really does boil down to that, in my opinion anyway.

No, it really doesn't 'boil down to that'.

You are comparing 'doctoring' with huge, multi-national corporations whose sole motivation is profit, and those profirs rely solely on lots and lots of people being sick and keeping those sick people convinced that they need the drugs these pharma's are selling.

It isn't a conspiracy, it is in-your-face-fact.

Anyone who believes that these large multinational corporations want to cure diseases (or people) are just plain ignorant. They don't want 'cures', they want 'treatments' - the more expensive the better.

I would like to ask you a question based on what some here say, that Big pharma wants us ill to get our money and how governments are involved. But how does that work in the UK, for example? I live in the UK where healthcare is absolutely free. Does the UK government spend money to buy harmful vaccines/treatments from pharma companies, to make us purposely ill and then pay again to make us better?

It certainly doesn't make sense in my head and the UK is not the only country with universal free healthcare, there are many all over the world.

And yes, countries with free universal healthcare are publicly funded, but many citizens do not pay taxes at all and they still get free healthcare (and free medicine). So how does the Big Pharma conspiracy work in those countries?

a reply to: Agartha

That's one of the reasons I made the thread. The whole conspiracy only seems to work in non-free health care countries.

Seems a bit strange.

(I'm in the UK too btw)