If You're Blocking Ads While On ATS, You Get A Big Ugly Message

originally posted by: TheScale


Edit: i still dont agree that we are the product. the best example i can give is to look at television and the way it works. u have companies like comcast who provide a platform for companies to provide content for. comcast doesnt produce any of the content but they provide a platform for other people (this would be us on ATS) to put their content on.

Yes buy both comcast and the content provider make money, they are both the owners/businessmen.
On ATS there would be no content and ergo no site with Joe public posting about Obama's race or Trump's Hair or whatever.
ATS sells advertizing space based on the number of Joe Public's they get on here.
I don't see the two models as similar.

Yes we are the product.
Steve Jobs said it, Facebook geniously capitalized on it, and it has ALWAYS been that way.

This isnt a new revolation people.

Right or wrong or indifferent, it is.

Now, here at ATS, this is a community. A very focused niche. And that is also what it is.

What everyone here complaining about is removing the customer, the adverts that pay for this.

That business model folks, does not work.

You the product, without customers the ads, eliminates the internet, tv, hollywood, and all forms of sports.

What a boring life that would be.

So what's I'm taking away from this little debacle is this: a man could make some serious money writing adblocking extensions that don't just block ads, but replicate the necessary replies to the tracking system to make it believe the ads were actually viewed. Block ads while still generating profit for the site.

Unethical? Meh, don't care, I'm not a nice person.

Edited to add: also just opened the site in IE (only time I've ever used it on this computer). Holy crap. How do you people put up with it? Is this what the internet looks like to normal people?!?

a reply to: EvillerBob

You are moving into seriously twilight zone areas of thought here: If an ad is clicked in a forest and nobody is there...

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: EvillerBob

You are moving into seriously twilight zone areas of thought here: If an ad is clicked in a forest and nobody is there...

If all it is, is javascript... and you know javascript... and you can make your own javascript run before anything else on the page... I really don't see why it's not possible.

The system relies entirely on my computer checking certain elements (ie the existing detect() function just ensures that a specific iframe hasn't been fiddled with) and, for the impression detection, presumably sends a response to an external server, or maybe calls a file from an external server.

Where there's an unethical, obstinate, and deliberately contrary greasemonkey coder, there's a way.

originally posted by: gottaknow
Regarding ads in general:

I thought, as a community, and pretty much as a world society, the majority of us understand that ads and media are bad, right? Who wants to see yet another Coke or McDonalds ad? Do people really support MORE ads? And is it wise?
I don't understand why Adblockers are considered bad when they're doing the right thing.

I left cable TV for the internet to avoid ads. I listen ONLY to the local college radio station to avoid ads.
Over the last 20 years, cable shows just show more and more minutes of ads with every show to the point you're spending half your time on TV watching ads. Who wants that? (other than the advertisers/corps/government)

And now there seems to be this push to allow yet more ads on the websites. When does it stop? When we start buying shirts plastered with ads like Idiocracy? Why does every form of entertainment and communication have to become a giant advertisement? What makes the public swing to the pro-ad side of it all? I get they're trying to make $$, but surely there are other ways, like selling their own products or something perhaps?

I can answer this question for you.

Until everyone agrees to donate their own time and money.

I will give you an example.

JW.ORG

If you check out that website, you will find 0 adds. 0 everything related to making money. I don't even think they have any cookies.

It is the most translated website in the world with over 700 languages. And is quite simply huge with all of the content it holds. Books, magazines, audio files, orchestral music, dramatic dramas, documentaries, videos of all sorts.

And all of it is free to download. At no charge.

And guess why? Everything is funded by volunteers. No one is paid for anything. And to keep everything running donations are given.

The orchestra? Volunteers. The actors in the movies? Volunteers. The translators of the website? Volunteers. The ones who constricted the studios and other structures used worldwide to publish, among other things, the widest distributed magazine int he world? Volunteers. The writers? Volunteers. In fact not one person makes one single cent.

Until you get people in any other governmental, commercial, or private enterprise to do the things the way these people do, you will NEVER get rid of propaganda and advertisements.


Because, all of it takes money. All of it. Even I understand that.

originally posted by: smirkley
Yes we are the product.
Steve Jobs said it, Facebook geniously capitalized on it, and it has ALWAYS been that way.

This isnt a new revolation people.

Right or wrong or indifferent, it is.

Now, here at ATS, this is a community. A very focused niche. And that is also what it is.

What everyone here complaining about is removing the customer, the adverts that pay for this.

That business model folks, does not work.

You the product, without customers the ads, eliminates the internet, tv, hollywood, and all forms of sports.

What a boring life that would be.

Nonsense. Quite a few sites I am frequenting regularly are run on donations. Wikipedia is run on donations.

The internet would be doing fine without ads.

Adblocking is unethical? Some people have computers that cannot handle the ads, it crashes them off the internet, or causes lagging that for all intents and purposes makes it impossible to surf.

I find that statement troubling, and sort of judgmental, like I'm a bad person for using adblocker, lol! I use a number of different forums, some of comparable size and quality. Only one of them has as many ads as there are here, even with adblocker on.

Going online w/ phone or tablet on some sites is nest to impossible without an ablocker, all you will get is ads!

To me, unethical is putting an ad on every square inch of the internet. If online businesses and websites didn't have so much advertising that it caused all these problems mentioned above, no one would need adblockers in the first place!

This is a fantastic site in many ways. You have great people such as George Knapp drop by to field questions from members, it's a decent resource for interesting alternative type news, the paranormal, stimulating conversation and quality contributions from all sorts of different people on a variety of subjects.

But suggesting it's somehow immoral b/c i don't want to be overwhelmed by advertising every place i go to online? People already pay internet providers, why? So they can go on the internet. Without an adblock program, esp. for those with slower, older computers, this would not be doable. Watching youtube w/ out adblock would've taken weeks off of my life. I just find this a troubling attitude/philosophy, considering it's coming from the admin of this site. No offense intended.

-ETA- a little dramatic of a response, admittedly. And idk the financial ins and outs of it, but if it's a big deal then yes, i will whitelist the site, provided i remember to next time i'm here. Got bit bent out of shape for what amounts to a difference in philosophy, but commercials have always been this insidious thing to me. Some television commercials make me literally sick to the stomach, it's all so banal and fake. I've learned to tune them out online, if they are minimal and relatively discreet, but commercialism in and of itself is something of an evil inho.

Anways, just how i feel personally. Justifiably or not, i don't claim to know. I've been wrong before a couple times.

I don't really like this idea... the more I think about it.

99% of us would wish to remain anonymous on this site or through most of the internet... once you start paying for something that anonymity is gone.

originally posted by: TruthxIsxInxThexMist
I don't really like this idea... the more I think about it.

99% of us would wish to remain anonymous on this site or through most of the internet... once you start paying for something that anonymity is gone.

On the other hand, anonymity is all but a thing of the past. Between various federal hacks and digs to the data we sprinkle behind us like bread crumbs... just a personal opinion but I think privacy has pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur.

My biggest gripe is how ads deposit so much crap into our systems that we lose our ability simply to surf the web anymore without pulling all of it behind us... recording our every click.

But, then again... just another welcome mat to technology advancing with each passing moment... and not always to our benefit.

Need more coffee...

It's not just ads that the ad blockers block, it's the annoying signatures and such, I don't really mind inobtrusive ads but if they try to open a new window of cover more of the screen they get blocked.

a reply to: redoubt

True... I do hate those cookies that follow you about.

I also hate what outlook and gmail and yahoo are doing... tracking us, asking ID, asking phone numbers which i don't give any of it but still...

Media sites ask for your facebook or twitter ID's to post comments now too so as they can see who is posting... No anonymity there either..

originally posted by: moonrunner
It's not just ads that the ad blockers block, it's the annoying signatures and such, I don't really mind inobtrusive ads but if they try to open a new window of cover more of the screen they get blocked.

If we're getting into personal gripes... what's with the profile pictures that take up 3 or 4 times more vertical space than the actual post? Who wants to spend half an hour scrolling just to get from the end of that person's post to the beginning of the next one? Am I immoral for stripping out the elements that cause it?

There was a brief spell yesterday when all the profile pictures disappeared. I think it was supposed to be a "punishment" for adblocking/not donating/whatever. It was actually a blessed relief, I might go to a completely avatar-free ATS experience in the future!

Edited to add:

OK, that's a bit of a rubbish example as there's actually an option to disable avatars, but hopefully you get the point

I think with the way our web behaviour is tracked, analysed and used to (amongst other things) actively target us as consumers in a way that has never been achievable before. It's damned well our duty to say enough is enough to advertising. I genuinely never want to see another advert again, Hicks was right.

I'd like to think I buy products out of choice and preference, but I probably don't, it is probably influenced. I'd be prepared to pay maybe a $10 annual sub to ATS for what it's worth to me.

I have been pondering this problem for a while though, is this an indication other websites are struggling?

a reply to: EvillerBob

I like my avatar, though... I feel like they are a nice thing to display the personality or interests of those whom are posting.

I actually love ATS' avatar system. It got me into working with a dimension set I hadn't used before, in terms of canvas and it's great. (200 x 450, whereas previously I had mostly made forum signatures, which were 200-250 x 400-600)

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: EvillerBob

I like my avatar, though... I feel like they are a nice thing to display the personality or interests of those whom are posting.

I actually love ATS' avatar system. It got me into working with a dimension set I hadn't used before, in terms of canvas and it's great. (200 x 450, whereas previously I had mostly made forum signatures, which were 200-250 x 400-600)

You like seeing avatars - fantastic. I'm glad that you have that facility. It makes it slightly harder for you to appreciate quite how much I dislike having other users impinge themselves on me with these bloody great big avatars that take up more room than any posts they've ever made.

The same applies to the issue in this thread. For some (myself included) it's not even so much about the ads taking away from the pleasure of viewing the site, it's the principle of having some seedy online dildo salesman decide he has the right to push an 800x600 animated gif of a Deluxe Black Mamba Throb-o-matic 3000 in my face every time I want to read a post. Hell no. I get to decide if I want to see pictures of a Deluxe Black Mamba Throb-o-matic 3000, not you.

Just to clarify, the "seedy online dildo salesman" relates to the company providing the ad, not ATS for displaying it. I mean, I've not really explored all the individual forums here, so I assume there isn't actually a sales forum for such things on ATS. Maybe there is. Not that we're judging you, I mean... everyone has to have a hobby, I guess.

Anonymity is long gone. Has been for awhile.

For example, Google can identify you within 3 clicks on their website no matter where you are browsing from. They know you better than your own mother.

Tell you what. Ask skeptic to drop the whole current software and put up the old xmb website that was up when I first joined. And when there was less than a 100k posts. And on the old shared server. With no ads like it was.

Anyone here remember that? I do.

And then let the hundreds of thousands of visitors (not just members) that currently load the server every day now, cause the pageload times to become tens of minutes, that is during the moments the server is still operational.

That is what you get for nothing. That is what you get from a hobby site.

And dont forget the totally lame support from xmb the way it was run back in the day. So any fixes would have to be invented by the end user. As well as the complete lack of security built into xmb.

Yes, ask skeptic to mske it like it was back then. Because that can be run for 12 bucks a month.

Or will that not be good enough for free with no ads.

a reply to: EvillerBob

You like seeing avatars - fantastic. I'm glad that you have that facility. It makes it slightly harder for you to appreciate quite how much I dislike having other users impinge themselves on me with these bloody great big avatars that take up more room than any posts they've ever made.

Sorry, my avatar is pretty much as big as it can possibly be. At least it's pretty, though. Right? RIGHT!?
I'd also like to point out that I've at least managed to get a tl;dr on ATS.
At the very least, I've made one post the size of my avatar. ^_^

The same applies to the issue in this thread. For some (myself included) it's not even so much about the ads taking away from the pleasure of viewing the site, it's the principle of having some seedy online dildo salesman decide he has the right to push an 800x600 animated gif of a Deluxe Black Mamba Throb-o-matic 3000 in my face every time I want to read a post. Hell no. I get to decide if I want to see pictures of a Deluxe Black Mamba Throb-o-matic 3000, not you.

Just to clarify, the "seedy online dildo salesman" relates to the company providing the ad, not ATS for displaying it. I mean, I've not really explored all the individual forums here, so I assume there isn't actually a sales forum for such things on ATS. Maybe there is. Not that we're judging you, I mean... everyone has to have a hobby, I guess.

Did you actually get an ad for the Deluxe Black Mamba Throb-o-matic 3000? I've been looking for that thing for ages!
(This is a joke. Though I am seriously asking if you got that sort of ad.)
You tend to get ads based on your online activity, but sometimes the software seems to go a bit haywire. A while back I kept getting ads for a Muslim dating site. Gods know why...

IF we Dont Let the Advertisers know we
have rights and the power to exercise them.
They will wall all over us.

you have seen the intrusive adds in the past.
would you like it if every 5 mins you have to watch a 10 second add?
and adds that take up all the page?
and will you like it when the adds Calls Your Name!

Then you will Have to Pay to stop them.

ad block all the way. id rather watch ats die than pay ontop of my isp just to browse the net. the death of the internet is almost here if more websites keep this attitude up. and if you are willing to pay for # on the net you are the reason this world is in the #.