I'm a realist and sadly here is why men and women will never be equal.

if you want to know what the full capabilities are of women, look at history during those times when most of the men were off to war, the revolutionary war, the civil war, the world wars. whenever the wars come along, society is more than happy to allow the women to break any gender barriers that might exist.. it's during the war times you will see them running the plantations, working in the factories assembling the weaponry, heck, even picking up those guns, aiming and firing if the need be. just the fact that we won the second world war, that our planes flew, our guns fired, the trucks ran, and society survived with them handling so much of the workload is evidence that they are equally equipped. and, the fact that so many of them have been forced to shoulder the entire burden, weather it be because the men went off to war, or the men just ran off with a younger model, provides a valid reason why they should not only have equal opportunity in the workforce, but also equal wages. and, quite frankly, much of the mess we see in society today can be attributed to the fact that they haven't been allowed to share equally when it comes to employment and financial matters in the past.

regardless of how you want to whitewash it... 2+3 will always equal 4+1!

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: MOMof3
Did you know they can make sperm from stem cells now? Just food for thought.

Imagine a world without men.

All movies would be sad, but meaningful.
A world where no pickle jars would ever get opened.

A world where no one would ever parallel park.

hahahahahahahahaha

Thread winner!

originally posted by: Tempter

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: MOMof3
Did you know they can make sperm from stem cells now? Just food for thought.

Imagine a world without men.

All movies would be sad, but meaningful.
A world where no pickle jars would ever get opened.

A world where no one would ever parallel park.

hahahahahahahahaha

Thread winner!

Uh huh, so not.

I like Sci-Fi and disaster movies, I open my own jars, and find parallel parking to be like a fun game of perspective.

Stereotyping is so yesterday.

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: frostie
Something had to cause a patriarchal social structure... im guessing it stemmed from our ancestors.

Something feminists will never address — the reason why patriarchal structures are overwhelmingly more common than matriarchal ones. Whatever the suggestion, you can count on it being man's fault.

One thing that bothers me is when Canadian women talk about that patriachy nonsense that they see on youtube.
In Canada our federal government is 55% female and 45% male.

originally posted by: DumpMaster

originally posted by: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: frostie
Something had to cause a patriarchal social structure... im guessing it stemmed from our ancestors.

Something feminists will never address — the reason why patriarchal structures are overwhelmingly more common than matriarchal ones. Whatever the suggestion, you can count on it being man's fault.

One thing that bothers me is when Canadian women talk about that patriachy nonsense that they see on youtube.
In Canada our federal government is 55% female and 45% male.

And then there's this article:

Canada's Lousy Record on Gender Equality No Surprise, Advocates Say
After starving 'Status of Women' offices, feds produce report showing gaps in pay, violence flatlining. By Katie Hyslop, 25 Sep 2015, TheTyee.ca

a reply to: Annee

All the "studies" on the alleged pay gap do not take into account many extraneous variables which turn into confounding variables and affect the integrity of the study.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: BlackProject

The point is, we don't HAVE to play the hand we are dealt just because we are women. That is an outdated concept.

We have choices. We can stay at home and cook and clean, or we can run a multi-billion dollar corporation, or we can fight in battle. Different women do different things, depending on what their personal choices are. Just like men do.

We can take out the trash, or we can wash the dishes. Our choice - not biology's choice, not society's choice. OUR choice.

You sure do not need to play the hand you are dealt, however most women would choose the hand hemsevles. Which is, to behave like a women. Just like a man would choose to act like a man.

When you mention biology too, well that is not a choice. I shall not go into it but your biology determines a hell of lot and does normally put you in a position beyond your own wishes.

Society can also determine alot to, you are a product of your surroundings. Regardless of how powerful a mind you think you have to avoid it.

My point is, those who behave differently then their hard wired versions are in the few. So it is not yet anywhere near noticeable.

Plus to drive the point home, well this idea of women being paid less is nonsense. Get better at what you do, get a better job and stop complaining.

M and the wife were in a local Supermarket on Saturday. Every single checkout was staffed by a woman.
THIS is where the pay gap comes from.
Generally a man will work full time from leaving school, even if its low skilled work, he can up his pay by doing a job that is arduous, dangerous or unsocial (such as shift work).
The pay gap is often worked out as a mean (all the women's salaries added together and divided by the number of women) then the same for the men. Now if you think about those 20 odd women all earning minimum wage and probably working part time too, it's easy to see how this pay gap appears to be a problem.

When I worked as a signaller, there were a few women who did the same job and they were paid exactly the same as the rest of us. The days of different rates for the same jobs is long gone for all but the very highest earners.

originally posted by: BlackProject

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: BlackProject

The point is, we don't HAVE to play the hand we are dealt just because we are women. That is an outdated concept.

We have choices. We can stay at home and cook and clean, or we can run a multi-billion dollar corporation, or we can fight in battle. Different women do different things, depending on what their personal choices are. Just like men do.

We can take out the trash, or we can wash the dishes. Our choice - not biology's choice, not society's choice. OUR choice.

You sure do not need to play the hand you are dealt, however most women would choose the hand hemsevles. Which is, to behave like a women. Just like a man would choose to act like a man.

When you mention biology too, well that is not a choice. I shall not go into it but your biology determines a hell of lot and does normally put you in a position beyond your own wishes.

Society can also determine alot to, you are a product of your surroundings. Regardless of how powerful a mind you think you have to avoid it.

My point is, those who behave differently then their hard wired versions are in the few. So it is not yet anywhere near noticeable.

Plus to drive the point home, well this idea of women being paid less is nonsense. Get better at what you do, get a better job and stop complaining.

So its all the rebels who have the issues. Ugh. Progression.

a reply to: SprocketUK

But for every female making small dollars bagging pharmaceuticals,

isnt there a male sweeping up a mechanic shop for the same wage?

Wouldnt it make sense the amount of men and women in even pay bracket is the same, possibly even with more male workers.

a reply to: frostie

If you take your argument about the female choosing to wash the dishes and you choosing to take out the trash farther, you are basically saying that women choose jobs where they make less money.

I don't know if this is the case, but if it is, and gender roles are behind it, then that's something we can change.

a reply to: frostie

Interesting analogy base on one pair of human beings and a chosen scenario.

Reality dictate a different outcome depending on education and jobs choices.

I have a college education but work only once in a while, raised a family have a husband that makes all the money, so no need to work for now

My daughter also a career women makes more than her in boy friend and partner and at 32 have chosen career over motherhood and why not making over 100 thousand a year.

Is all about choices.

originally posted by: darkbake
a reply to: frostie

I don't know if this is the case, but if it is, and gender roles are behind it, then that's something we can change.

You make it sound so easy! It can change, but I believe only time will be the solution.

From Gallup.

Thirty-four percent of men** are very satisfied with the way women are treated in society, compared to only 18% of women***. A similar gap exists when it comes to opinion on equality in the workplace. A majority of men (54%) feel that women have equal job opportunities with men, as do only 39% of women. In other words, most women perceive a job parity problem, while most men do not. www.gallup.com...

originally posted by: SprocketUK





When I worked as a signaller, there were a few women who did the same job and they were paid exactly the same as the rest of us. The days of different rates for the same jobs is long gone for all but the very highest earners.

The folks that keep saying this and some other things that make many say "what are they talking about?".....you know? Well they are liars and are so empty of cause, but still love power, that they resort to pure BS. They must automatically go back to the well......but hope we don't notice its dry.

And what do we have these days.......female bosses pulling the gender card long after men were conditioned not to do so anymore. Female equality has become its own "superiority" and you will play the role or you are out.

a reply to: darkbake

are they choosing that or is it more that is where they are herded? In any restaurants, you will have cooks, and you will have waitresses... the wage that are given to the cooks is often far more than that of the waitresses... and well, ever notice how the cooks are predominantly males, the waitresses females? on can argue that the waitresses can make far more when one considers the tips, but their base wage, the wage the restaurants pays them is also far below the minimum wage.. so in essence the restaurants is just giving her what would in the old days be called her "egg money". or the little bit of money that the women could get for bringing in the excess eggs that her chickens laid to the country store. Far less than what she would need to live on, for if she wants to live, then she should be at the mercy of the kind and generous souls of the world, be it her husband, the customers she serves at the restaurant, or the US gov't and it's welfare programs.

Women have generally been put into more of supportive roles...

doctor/nurse, executive/secretary, machine operator/finisher, college professor/high school teacher/elementary teacher, ect....it's a trend that have been breaking down over the past couple of decades but there are still many in the workforce that began their career in a time when as far as the employers were concerned, women didn't need much more than the egg money, they had men paying their bills, it was the men that need those good paying jobs! only, throughout any women's life, there is a very good chance that she will experience not having a man paying her bills at least once, it might be for a short time, or it might be for a much longer time.

I've already mentioned that I had experienced working in a shop where the women, no matter how experienced or how talented, or how dependable they were, got paid less than the men. I mentioned the guy that was brought, with absolutely no experience in the printing industry, at over a dollar an hour more than me. What I forgot to tell you was that I was doing the job he was hired to do before he was hired on, filling in. Like I said I could do most of the jobs in that company, a floater if you will.. I was also the best laminator they had so they really didn't want me filling in on this job on a permanent basis. ya, I was a mother, but I seldom called in sick or took time off. I ended every year with a nice paycheck for all the sick days, vacation days, ect I didn't take. there was no justification for the difference in that wage. and, it was poetic justice when the guy slipped on the ice, "hurt" his back, and well, walk away with his workman's comp, just to be found working in a garage somewhere else!! it was like, yep!! that's the kind of employee that is valued by the business sector! the guy the hired after him, well, he turned out to be an illegal alien and we had gov't officials there picking him up and sending him home. and I ended up quitting soon after that because well, I wasn't getting paid enough to get the medical care that I needed to continue working, and contrary to modern beliefs, my husband wasn't paying THOSE BILLS!

originally posted by: Dark Ghost
a reply to: Annee

All the "studies" on the alleged pay gap do not take into account many extraneous variables which turn into confounding variables and affect the integrity of the study.

You do know that sounds like making excuses, right?

I'm near 70 and female, so I've has a long time to participate and observe.

While progress is being made -- gender equality in the work force is still very much a problem.

And then, of course, a woman who fights for herself and stands her ground is not assertive, she's just a b......

If the "pay gap" was true, then that would mean that every company would go out there way to hire women just to save money. But this isn't the case because the "pay gap" is just a myth.

The different genders choose different careers. If you go to a reception of a hotel or a public place; 9/10 there will be a female behind the desk. You ask for an electrician or plumber to come around to fix something (getting more money); 10/10 it will be a male knocking on your door.

If women got payed less than every male for doing the same job, then automatically they would have an advantage when applying for employement. But like I say, this is bullsh1t.

originally posted by: Debunkology
If the "pay gap" was true, then that would mean that every company would go out there way to hire women just to save money. But this isn't the case because the "pay gap" is just a myth.

NO, it's not.

But, you go right away and believe what you want.

originally posted by: Debunkology
If the "pay gap" was true, then that would mean that every company would go out there way to hire women just to save money. But this isn't the case because the "pay gap" is just a myth.

The different genders choose different careers. If you go to a reception of a hotel or a public place; 9/10 there will be a female behind the desk. You ask for an electrician or plumber to come around to fix something (getting more money); 10/10 it will be a male knocking on your door.

If women got payed less than every male for doing the same job, then automatically they would have an advantage when applying for employement. But like I say, this is bullsh1t.

Not every woman get's paid less and not every company pays women less, but it's a huge problem. Not sure what the percentage is. My wife, last job, all the guys doing the exact same job got paid more. Like 10k more. Her work was generally far superior. Actresses in Hollywood, get paid far less even if the movie generates more.

There is a pay gap. Some companies do go out of their way to hire women so that they can pay them less.

The problem is that it's a percentage and so not every women or company or job title is the same. You can't lump everyone in one catagory.