Whoa! The Julian Calendar is always ahead of the Gregorian Calendar?, page 1

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:06 PM

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People think the Gregorian calendar is now ahead of the Julian calendar by 13 days.

Is that the case though?

It seems like the Julian calendar always drifts ahead of the Gregorian calendar, which means the Gregorian calendar is never ahead of the Julian in regards to days.

Currently, Feb. 26th, 2016 (Gregorian) is Feb 13th, 2016. Well that is what they say.

I believe it actually should be Feb. 26th, 2016 (Julian) and Feb. 13th, 2016 (Gregorian).

We can see in this LA Times article that Feb. 25th, 2016 is July 11th, 2017 if you take away leap years.

This LA TIMES article states that Feb. 25th, 2016 would be July 11th, 2016 if you don't count leap years and if you started on 46 B.C.

graphics.latimes.com...

How do you get to July 11th, 2016?

1/(365.2425 - 365) = 4.123 leap years for Gregorian calendar

and

1/(365.25 - 365) = 4 leap years for Julian calendar

2016 plus 46 BC = 2062 years total

2062 years/4.123 years (Gregorian leap years avg.) = 500 days but this is a leap year so it would be 501 days

2062 years/4 years (Julian leap years) = 516 days

Feb. 25th, 2016 plus 501 days = July 10th/11th, 2016 (Gregorian)

or

Feb 25th, 2016 plus 516 days = July 26th, 2016 (Julian).

So it seems that the Julian is always ahead of the Gregorian and not behind it.

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:06 PM

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Even at the start of the 13 baktun Mayan Long Count calendar, the Julian calendar was ahead of the Gregorian calendar.

Sept 6th, 3114 BC (Julian) = August 11th, 3114 BC (Gregorian) 26 day difference

3114 BC plus 325 AD (Council of Nicea) = 3439 years. 3439 years/133.33 years = 25.792 or 26 days

First the rate of slip of the Julian and Gregorian Calendars with respect to each other is:
1 / (365.25 - 365.2425) = 133.333... years. That is one day in every 133.33 years.

3114 BC plus 325 AD = 3439 years. 3439 years/133.33 years = 25.792 or 26 days. A difference of 26 days that the Julian is ahead of the Gregorian.

The Julian calendar is always ahead of the Gregorian calendar. Never is it behind the Gregorian that we all think it is now.

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:07 PM

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"The day of the week is always the same for days occurring in the Julian and Gregorian calendars (e.g., Tuesday in the Gregorian calendar is always Tuesday in the Julian calendar) ; however, the day of the month for any given solar day is different in each calendar. About once a century, the Julian calendar shifts ahead of the Gregorian calendar by one day. The table below shows the number of days by which the Julian calendar is in advance of the Gregorian calendar:

No. of days Julian dates are
Years ahead of Gregorian dates.
==================================================
201 - 299 0
301 - 499 1
501 - 599 2
601 - 699 3
701 - 899 4
901 - 999 5
1001 - 1099 6
1101 - 1299 7
1301 - 1399 8
1401 - 1499 9
1501 - 1699 10
1701 - 1799 11
1801 - 1899 12
1901 - 2099 13
2101 - 2199 14

hcal.ccarh.org...

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:17 PM

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a reply to: neutrinostargate
There is a simpler way of working things out.
First, it's recorded in history that when Britain switched from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar, the official date "jumped" by eleven days, leaving out the days in the interval (causing a protest among the uneducated of "give us back our eleven days!").
Similarly the "February" and "October" Russian Revolutions of 1917 are named after the months of the Julian calendar, and actually took place in the following months according to the Gregorian calendar.

If you think about it, the Julian calendar is never going to catch up with those missing days.
Especially since one of the features of the difference is that the Julian calendar has a leap year (at the end of a century) when the Gregorian calendar does not.
Therefore the Julian is always going to be gradually falling behind.

P.S. I think you are also missing the point that the Gregorian calendar was intitiated in the sixteenth century by Pope Gregory, and is defined by that operation. There's no point in calculating it back before then.
Since Gregory's time, both calendars have been continuously in use by one society or another, and those societies are witnesses for the difference between the two systems.

edit on 26-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:38 PM

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My calculations show this that the Julian calendar has a leap year at the end of a century and the Gregorian doesn't.

I have also clearly shown that the Julian calendar always drifts further away from the Gregorian, not gradually falling behind.

If you take 325 AD (Council of Nicea) and go to 1582, that is a difference of 1257 years

1257 years/4 leap year Julian = 314.25 days

1257 years/4.123 leap year Gregorian = 304.88

You can see there are more Julian days then Gregorian by a difference of 9.37 days.

In the Julian calendar, named after Julius Caesar, every fourth year had 366 days rather than 365. Roman astronomers calculated that a year — the time it takes the Earth to revolve around the sun —had a duration of 365.25 days. This method of adding a “leap day” every fourth year averaged out to this determined value. Except, a year’s length isn’t 365.25 days; it’s actually a bit shorter. This only became noticeable as the centuries passed and the calendar drifted out of sync with the seasons.

By the 16th century A.D., people noticed that the first day of spring had drifted 10 days ahead of the intended 20th of March. Basically, history had used a leap-day year 10 more times than was useful. Recognizing the 10-day error, Pope Gregory XIII had a scholar (Aloysius Liliusa) devise a new system that would keep the calendar in sync with the seasons. This new system changed which years should be considered leap years based on what numbers divide the years evenly.

Putting the calendar back in sync At the time, such changes were considered controversial, but not nearly as controversial as the plan to put the calendar back into sync with the seasons. The Pope only had the authority to reform the calendar of Spain, Portugal, the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth and most of Italy. In those regions, Thursday, Oct. 4, 1582 (of the Julian calendar), was followed by Friday, Oct. 15, 1582 (of the Gregorian calendar).

www.livescience.com...

edit on 26-2-2016 by neutrinostargate because: (no reason given)

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:41 PM

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originally posted by: neutrinostargate
No. of days Julian dates are
Years ahead of Gregorian dates.
hcal.ccarh.org...

Right, I think I can pin down the problem to the fact that the site quoted is using the word ahead in a confusing way.
It says exactly the same things as everybody else on the difference between the two calendars, but it describes as "being ahead" what everybody else calls "being behind".

edit on 26-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:44 PM

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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: neutrinostargate
No. of days Julian dates are
Years ahead of Gregorian dates.
hcal.ccarh.org...

Right, I think I can pin down the problem to the fact that the site quoted is using the word ahead in a confusing way.
It says exactly the same things as everybody else on the difference between the two calendars, but it describes as "being ahead" what everybody else calls "being behind".

Never does the Julian calendar drift behind the Gregorian. The calculations prove otherwise. That is a fact.

If you can show me how the Julian calendar drifts behind the Gregorian and not ahead, please fill me in.

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:49 PM

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originally posted by: neutrinostargate
1257 years/4 leap year Julian = 314.25 days

1257 years/4.123 leap year Gregorian = 304.88

You can see there are more Julian days then Gregorian by a difference of 9.37 days.

That's right.
And because the Gregorian average century has fewer days than the Julian average century, the Gregorian calendar gets to the end of the century faster, and is ready to start a new century earlier
You really need to make yourself a visual aid.
In effect, the Gregorian gets ahead because it has shorter distances to travel.

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 01:56 PM

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originally posted by: neutrinostargate
Never does the Julian calendar drift behind the Gregorian. The calculations prove otherwise.

Forget the calculations for a moment.
The true witnesses are the societies which have been continuously following the two calendars since the time of Pope Gregory.
One set of societies, including the modern West, have been following the Gregorian calendar. They testify what the Gregorian calendar says.
The other witnesses, now primarily Russia, have been following the Julian calendar.They testify what the Julian calendar says.
If the date given by the first group is X days away from the date given by the second group, that tells us what the difference is.
My other reply explains how it works.

edit on 26-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:00 PM

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originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: neutrinostargate
1257 years/4 leap year Julian = 314.25 days

1257 years/4.123 leap year Gregorian = 304.88

You can see there are more Julian days then Gregorian by a difference of 9.37 days.

That's right.
And because the Gregorian average century has fewer days than the Julian average century, the Gregorian calendar gets to the end of the century faster, and is ready to start a new century earlier
You really need to make yourself a visual aid.
In effect, the Gregorian gets ahead because it has shorter distances to travel.

I still don't see your point.

There was a 26 day difference between the gregorian and Julian at the start of the Mayan Long count. Look it up. Sept 6th 3114 bc Julian or August 11th 3114 bc gregorian. The Julian was ahead of the gregorian by 26 days. So are you saying over time, the Julian and the Gregorioan date became the same day and then the Julian date started drifting behind the Gregorian date? It doesn't work out that way.

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:12 PM

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a reply to: neutrinostargate
The Gregorian calendar did not exist at the time when the Mayan "long count" began, so that issue is irrelevant.

I will try to explain the mechanics again.

Let us suppose that the two calendars show the same date at the begining of a certain year.
And suppose that this one of the years which the Julian calendar counts as a leap year and the Gregorian does not.
Therefore the Julian year will have 366 days and the Gregorian year only 365.
In that case, the Julian 29th of February will be the Gregorian 1st of March, and the Gregorian calendar is ahead already.
The Julian 30th of December will be the Gregorian 31st of December, and the Julian 31st of December will be the Gregorian 1st of January for the following year.
That happens every couple of centuries, and THAT is how the Julian calendar falls behind,

Abstruse calculations about what the Julian calendar ought to say are quite irrelevant, when we have living witnesses to what the Julian calendar actually does say.

edit on 26-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:23 PM

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originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: neutrinostargate
The Gregorian calendar did not exist at the time when the Mayan "long count" began, so that issue is irrelevant.

I will try to explain the mechanics again.

Let us suppose that the two calendars show the same date at the begining of a certain year.
And suppose that this one of the years which the Julian calendar counts as a leap year and the Gregorian does not.
Therefore the Julian year will have 366 days and the Gregorian year only 365.
In that case, the Julian 29th of February will be the Gregorian 1st of March, and the Gregorian calendar is ahead already.
The Juilan 30th of December will be the Gregorian 31st of December, and the Julian 31st of December will be the Gregorian 1st of January for the following year.
That happens every couple of centuries, and THAT is how the Julian calendar falls behind,

Abstruse calculations about what the Julian calendar ought to say are quite irrelevant, when we have living witnesses to what the Julian calendar actually does say.

My calculations are on point and correct and includes everything you just said above. So I don't get your point. Did I not show you there is 9 or rounded up 10 day difference from the Julian to gregorian on 1582. The Julian was 10 days ahead of the gregorian. Your agruement somehow says that the Gregorian calendar would be 10 days ahead of the Julian calendar? Um no
edit on 26-2-2016 by neutrinostargate because: (no reason given)

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:32 PM
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originally posted by: neutrinostargate
The Julian was 10 days ahead of the gregorian. Your agruement somehow says that the Gregorian calendar would be 10 days ahead of the Julian calendar?

It was Pope Gregory's decision to add ten days to the Julian calendar to establish the Gregorian.
Most people refer to this as the Gregorian calendar being ahead of the Julian.
As I pointed out in an earlier post, one of your sites is confusing the issue by using the word "ahead" the wrong way round, when describing exactly the same thing.

The Gregorian calendar, ever since its inception by Pope Gregory, has always been AHEAD of the Julian calendar, in the sense that days have to be ADDED to the Julian date to arrive at the correct Gregorian date.
Check any history book for the period when both systems are in operation.
edit on 26-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:40 PM
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The mistake is you don't freaking add the days, you subtract them. At that time , the Julian was ahead of the Gregorian calendar. So subtract day 10 days from the Julian to get to the Gregorian. Simple as that but apparently they goofed.

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: neutrinostargate
No, what Pope Gregory did was to ADD days, in the sense of increasing the day-number attached to a particular date. He decided that the day following January 1st (or whichever day he chose) should be called January 12th instead of January 2nd.
Over the few centuries which have passed since then , the number which needs to be added has gradually got larger, and is now 13 instead of 10.
The only people who goofed are the second site you quoted; as I now point out for the third time, they confusingly used the phrase "Julian calendar ahead of Gregorian" when what they were describing was the other way round.
All this head-scratching is arising out of that badly-chosen wording.
(This is what happens when people get their information from websites instead of from real books)

edit on 26-2-2016 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:45 PM
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First lets go back to this article.

graphics.latimes.com...

If it was today's date, Feb. 26th, 2016, it would be July 12th, 2016 if you take away leap years.

How did they get to July 12th, 2016?

They started removing leap years when the Julian calendar was devised 46 BC. 46 BC to now (2016) = 2062 total years.

2062 years/4 years per leap year = 515.5 or 516.5 leap days (including this year)

The Gregorian calendar later came along and instead of 4 years per leap year it became 4.123 years per leap year.

2062 years/4.123 years per leap year = 500 leap days plus 1 leap day for this year and 1 leap day for 46 BC = 502 leap days

Now take Feb. 26th, 2016 add 516.5 leap days = July 27th, 2017. July 27th, 2017 Julian date

www.timeanddate.com...

Now take Feb. 26th, 2016 add 502 leap days = July 11th/12th, 2017 Gregorian date.

You can't take July 11th/12th, 2017 (Gregorian date) and then say June 26th/27th, 2017 must be the Julian date. It is July 27th, 2017 as you can see above.

edit on 26-2-2016 by neutrinostargate because: (no reason given)

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edit on 26-2-2016 by neutrinostargate because: (no reason given)

TerryDon79

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 03:48 PM
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Sorry, but I thought this was common sense?

The Julian and gregorian calendars use a different amount of days a year so obviously one would read a later number than the other.

Take counting 1-10.

1,2,3,4,,5,6,7,8,9,10

Then take out the number 5.

1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9,10

As you can see its one less.

Not exactly some major breakthrough.

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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Also, the Russian Orthodox use the Julian calendar. They hated the Gregorian and didn't adopt it. To this day they still use it.

They celebrate Christmas on January 7th (Julian date), because 13 days before Christmas in the Gregorian calendar.

Merry (Russian Orthodox) Christmas! Why do many Eastern Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas on Jan. 7?

Why do Russian Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas so much later than Western Christians? Because the Russian Orthodox Church still observes the Julian calendar. Dec. 25 on the Julian calendar corresponds to Jan. 7 on the Gregorian calendar, which America and most of the rest of the world uses. Currently, each day of the Julian calendar occurs 13 days after its corresponding day on the Gregorian calendar—therefore, Dec. 25 on the Julian calendar corresponds to today on the Gregorian calendar. (Although the Russian Orthodox Church still uses the Julian calendar, the Russian government uses the Gregorian calendar just like the rest of the world, so for secular purposes, today is Jan. 7 in Russia, not Dec. 25.)

www.slate.com...
Since Russian Orthodox observe the Julian calendar and rejected the Gregorian, they celebrate Christmas on January 7th (Julian) or Dec. 25th (Gregorian).

If the Russian Orthodox weren't observing the Gregorian calendar, it wouldn't make sense to observe Christmas on January 7th Gregorian, or the Julian date of Dec. 25th.
edit on 26-2-2016 by neutrinostargate because: (no reason given)

neutrinostargate

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 04:12 PM
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"While Christmas trees and decorations have been taken down in many countries, celebrations are just beginning in others. In Russia, Ukraine, Greece, Israel and several other nations, Orthodox Christians, Greek Catholics and Coptic Christians will celebrate Christmas Wednesday 13 days after the well-known Dec. 25 festivities.

Because the Julian calendar has a leap year in all years divisible by four—without excepting centurial years not divisible by 400, the way the Gregorian calendar does—the discrepancy between the Julian and Gregorian calendar changes periodically. For instance, beginning in 2100 the difference will increase from 13 days to 14 days when the Julian calendar adds a day to that year, and Russian Christmas will then fall on Jan. 8 instead of Jan. 7.

Why is Christmas celebrated Jan. 7? The difference in dates goes back several centuries to when Pope Gregory XIII established the Gregorian calendar in 1582. The Gregorian calendar has become known as the “Western calendar” and is internationally followed by many governments with Christmas celebrated Dec. 25. The Gregorian calendar was introduced to correct the Julian calendar that was created under the rule of Roman leader Julius Caesar and dates back to 46 B.C. Not all religions have switched over to the Gregorian calendar, which accounts for celebrations on Jan. 7 ."

www.ibtimes.com...

"Russian President Vladimir Putin attends an Orthodox Christmas service at a local cathedral of the village Otradnoye in Voronezh region Jan. 7, 2015. Most Orthodox Christians celebrate Christmas according to the Julian calendar on Jan. 7, two weeks after most western Christian churches that abide by the Gregorian calendar. Photo: Reuters/Alexei Druzhinin/RIA Novosti/Kremlin "

edit on 26-2-2016 by neutrinostargate because: (no reason given)

DISRAELI

posted on Feb, 26 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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originally posted by: neutrinostargate
First lets go back to this article.

graphics.latimes.com...

Their basic statement is the same as mine. That is, Pope Gregory in 1582 decided it was necessary to make the calendar "jump" ten days, so that the spring-equinox would re-gain the date which Julius originally assigned to it.

I've already explained how the difference arose and continually increases, so all I can do now is repeat the explanation;

Let us suppose that the two calendars show the same date at the begining of a certain year.
And suppose that this one of the years which the Julian calendar counts as a leap year and the Gregorian does not.
Therefore the Julian year will have 366 days and the Gregorian year only 365.
So; Julian 1st of January = Gregorian 1st of January
Julian 28th of February = Gregorian 28th of February
Julian 29th of Febuary = Gregorian 1st of March
Julian 30th of December = Gregorian 31st of December
Julian 31st of December = Gregorian 1st of January (following year).
That happens every couple of centuries, and THAT is how the Julian calendar falls behind.

All your calculations about what the Julian calendar date ought to be are invalidated by this one simple fact; the Orthodox churches have been following the Julian calendar continuously, and they know what the current Julian date is. They will tell you that today's date is February the 13th. Ask your nearest Orthodox priest.

Forget websites and silly calculations, and try to understand for yourself how the system works.
By having more leap years than was necessary, the Julian calendar was moving through the year too slowly, and so its date for the spring equinox was falling behind the date Julius set for it.
Therefore Pope gregory had to speed things up by adding ten or so days to the day-number which the old calendar was using.
Just take your time and think it through.