Give me one damn reason the rich should be supported in their positions.

a reply to: TheTory

No one, you say?

I see republicans advocate for them all the time. They put all business owners in one group, and saying that threatening any of them, even the bad ones, will hurt all of them, therefore it is a bad and evil step to attempt to take.

As in, I should just accept the situation, and lie down, no matter what happens. Loss of life, loss of liberty do not seem to matter - Just good ol capitalism.

originally posted by: deadlyhope

Capital still exists.

They can only POCKET a million a year.

They can spend any amount.

I think you're getting your threads crossed. This isn't the wage cap thread you started right after saying how you're in favor of a free-market system in this one.

a reply to: NthOther

I am getting my threads crossed, my apologies.

Also - I am in favor of a free market system. My other thread is a question, a theory - Not something I advocate for.

originally posted by: deadlyhope

My other thread is a question, a theory - Not something I advocate for.

Sure it isn't.

a reply to: deadlyhope

No one, you say?

I see republicans advocate for them all the time. They put all business owners in one group, and saying that threatening any of them, even the bad ones, will hurt all of them, therefore it is a bad and evil step to attempt to take.

As in, I should just accept the situation, and lie down, no matter what happens. Loss of life, loss of liberty do not seem to matter - Just good ol capitalism.

There is nothing wrong with calling business owner a business owner. That's a fairly apt classification.

You don't have to accept the situation. Use your freedoms. Protest them; write books; become the competition, and so on. Demanding their freedoms be limited because you refuse to use your own freedom to do anything about it yourself is inching towards advocating tyranny.

a reply to: NthOther

I do enjoy learning. I create my threads with a thought in mind, wondering what others experiences, thoughts, etc are on the matter. I can swayed on just about any belief of mine, it just takes a lot to do that. Statistical evidence, proof, logical reasoning on the behalf of the person with the opposing position.

I can honestly say discussion on here has changed my stance on quite a few issues over the years.

I currently see wage caps as bad - If someone actually came in with modern or historical examples, or any other statistics showing me flourishing economies can be based on wage caps, I'd re-think my position and study further myself.

However, most only can give me bad examples, and what could go wrong So I'm not yet re-thinking.

a reply to: TheTory

What do we define as freedom?

Is there an inherent right to wage wars for oil profits?

Is there some unalienable right to introduce poisons into a diet or water supply, but gain the favor of a judge or government to not have to warn of the dangers of the product, including suing people who attempt to speak out against them? ... To even have the "right" of mislabeling a product as to ensure your ignorant customer base?

I am not talking of every day ills. Cutting the competition - Offering cheaper, or better services, are all natural.

Waging war after war in countries with no proven threats, but lots of oil, however....

a reply to: deadlyhope

They are in the business of selling you what you want. Stop wanting it, stop buying it, stop demanding it, and it all goes away. It evaporates. Saying it is all their fault for supplying a demand is ridiculous.

Oil is used in almost everything. Stop buying it. Stop using it. Put it down and use something else. It will all go away. You are just as much a part of the problem as they are.

The only way we'll get out of this mess is if we accept some responsibility. We can't keep pretending we're slaves under a capitalists whip when it is us who are funding him.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: SaturnFX

What to do, indeed.

I'm just tired of people propping these corporations up. Like I could not breathe this air if international bankers and corporations didn't exist.

Well, I cant complain about corporations too much without sounding like a hypocrite..I look around even my desk and see products made possible by heavy manufacturing and global corporate conglomerations..my computer, my kindle reader, phone, etc..hell, even the electricity powering it all comes from a chain of huge corporate entities that have enabled affordable prices to the commoners.

The reason why corporate became corporate was because of good/needed services brought cheaply and efficiently. I would hate a world where it was all destroyed and we went back to a pre industrial era style small trade system.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I don't have a reason.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
I'm not really understanding this position on ATS - We have talks of socialism, capitalism. We talk about welfare, increasing government, decreasing government... Yet, for some reason, there's a group of people who seem to lack any reasoning at all, and seem to worship the rich and elite as they sit in their thrones.

The rich and elite....

Are responsible for wars.
Have bought and funded our government.
Have gradually and continually chipped away at our quality of life - Yes, luxuries included - But why is the decline of these supported?
Poison us with unsafe foods, chemicals, additives, etc - They own the FDA, USDA, and those that have any oversight over them..
Have somehow convinced us that they are the supply, the demand, the producers, the buyers and the sellers of everything when in fact the working class are.
Have convinced us we need to worship the "job creators" - Because no one would need food or have a job in agriculture or other retail if walmart didn't exist, right?

I'm NOT saying I am against capitalism and a free market. I am also not saying this applies to all "rich" people - I'm not talking your millionaire Joe Neighbor that owns a few franchises. I'm talking billionaires, trillionaires. People that essentially own countries and governments, bankers and international coporations...

I'm definitely for capitalism and a free and fair market. For supply and demand economics to work as they do naturally...

But we sure as F... don't live that life now.

So my question is - Why do you support these entities and corporations?

Why are we told we don't need to be able to afford this type of life, or that - That even putting food on the table is at times asking for too much. Because for some reason inequality is natural, and good, and amazing..

Nothing about dynastic bloodlines, bankers, corporations and governments making billions off of wars, poverty, etc is natural.

Please show me how I'm wrong. I'm up for being proven wrong.

-Deadlyhope

Try flipping the situation, where you are the elite and the rest of us are the poor. What would you do?

It's easy to talk about an issue, when you're looking at the situation in a certain set environment.

Like I've always said, if one day you suddenly discover that by sheer luck, you got 140 billion dollars worth of asset. It would literally warp your entire view of this planet and everyone in it.

So while it's easy to talk about the elite and how they are destroying mankind, I would often ponder why they do some of the things they do and if there really is a legitimate reason they do it.

For instance, the U.S. government is responsible for many hideous crimes against humanity (so is other governments of the world), but... you often have to ask yourself, it is absolute evil or necessary evil?

a reply to: truthseeker84

Definitely not necessary, in my opinion... Inevitable? Perhaps.

You wonder how people would act if they were government officials, CEO's, billionaires themselves.

My guess is, if we jailed every current person found "corrupt" ( And somehow did so with accuracy )

They would simply be replaced - Even by the very people that spoke ill of those very people not too long ago.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: truthseeker84

Definitely not necessary, in my opinion... Inevitable? Perhaps.

You wonder how people would act if they were government officials, CEO's, billionaires themselves.

My guess is, if we jailed every current person found "corrupt" ( And somehow did so with accuracy )

They would simply be replaced - Even by the very people that spoke ill of those very people not too long ago.

You're not getting it but I'm not here to argue, just giving a different perspective on someone's train of thought.

If you jailed every current person found "corrupt", there would be a million more by next week. Reason being, you have to understand WHY they become the way they are the first place.

Unless you believe in true Socialism, where everyone gets an equal share, everyone drives the same car, wears the same cloths, having the same good looking wife, have the same amount of kids, same house, same food, same EVERYTHING, then maybe then you can call it "Not Necessary".

Before that happens, there will always be that 1% elites no matter how many times you wipe them off this planet.

What I'm trying to address here, is human nature. We need to better understand why the Elites think the way they do and try to reverse the environmental conditions that breeds them.

a reply to: truthseeker84

I am simply debating the words "necessary" and "inevitable"

Necessary implies importance, or function.

While inevitability implies that which cannot be avoided.


I agree, though, that we should look into environments which create the elite.

Some people call for anarchy. I would like it myself and function well in such a system with others like me...but I don't believe it would work well, because it would be chaotic for others - Any attempt to lessen chaos, would be calling upon authority, thus no longer anarchy.

originally posted by: NthOther
Because without the 1% you can say goodbye to all of your modern technology and conveniences, advanced by the wars financed by the banks that are owned by them. Most people (I think) innately know that a reset or restructuring of our economic system will cause mass disruption of our way of life.

Most people can't deal with that. They're comfortable in their slavery and will thus do anything to maintain it.

You have to be willing to throw it all away and start over from scratch. With nothing.

We'd be lucky to get a significant portion of them to turn off the TV.

What makes you believe that a world without narcissistic sociopaths that lead the world into war wouldn't advance technologicaly.

We would be more advanced without war. Without war we wouldn't need to spend enormous resources to simply rebuild.

We don't need the 1% who hoard the wealth. We need scientists and engineers who love to tinker. Do you think the 1% wanted the Electric Car? Thank you Ellon Musk.

How to fix the financial system? Erase the debt. Eliminate private banking and the wheel keeps turning. In this case the wheel actually speeds up with a reset. Your doom and gloom is completely unnecessary to eliminate electronic debt.

Our Constitution says the money in this country belongs to the people. The bankers do not own the monetary supply. Since the entire monetary supply belongs to the people. As I see it the people have two options.

1. Challenge the constitutionality of private banking. The people verse the Federal Reserve. Bring into evidence the writings of our founding fathers and past presidents who were against private banking.

2. Pass a law that ends the Federal Reserve, private banking and eliminates debt. The monetary supply belongs to the people, we decide what direction to take, not the 1%.

a reply to: SaturnFX

Let me give another (REAL) scenario.
You dad gives you a million when you turn eighteen. You use every one of your advantages, fail at lots of endeavors and eventually run for the POTUS spot.

How about, you make more money than god but decide that is not enough.

Frankly the success stories of this system are based on the system that these folks take advantage of.
Why should a patent be awarded and then protected to profit everyone involved except for the society which generated the infrastructure for it's initial consideration, financing, manufacturing, distribution, etc?

We are all in this together. This is provable. The Ayn and other Rands really never quite catch on.
It is why this entire grouping and their stupidity aren't repudiated completely. There are always stupid, greedy, hateful and ill-disciplined folks who are entirely eager to make assertions that everyone else is inferior. It bolsters their positions in all matters to KNOW EVERYONE IS LESSER TO THEIR SUPERIOR CONCEPTIONS.

WHICH IS ALL OF US ARE MERELY ANIMALS AND WE NEED TO SERVE ONLY OURSELVES.
From this enlightened stance our solitary worries can be all banished and then society will advance.

I figure it will be the OK Corral but global if this goes forth to fruition. Because really, this is so freaking obviously stupid to anyone who considers society to be our bedrock for evolving into a better future. The ones who fail to understand this are stupid/ignorant/psychologically impaired. Choose any one or more from that menu.
You do not have to be more than one. Sociopaths can be well informed, smart and resourceful. Just like killer clowns can be fun initially.

Enemies of all and happy to be so. Because they are sooo right in their thinking.
Just ask them.