Cancer Society Deleting Posts On Cancer and Diet

www.cancer.gov...

For what it's worth.

The Gerson therapy has been used by some people to treat cancer and other diseases. It is based on the role of minerals, enzymes, and other dietary factors.

From the link,

In 1947 and 1959, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) reviewed the cases of a total of 60 patients treated by Dr. Gerson. The NCI found that the available information did not prove the regimen had benefit.

But it also says,

A case review of 6 patients with metastatic cancer who used the Gerson therapy reported that the regimen helped patients in some ways, both physically and psychologically. Based on these results, the reviewers recommended that clinical trials of the Gerson therapy be conducted.

I feel like the very last bit is being downplayed and should be more urgent.


It has been examined all the way up to 2010 and the results are the same, but that's mainly because of all the other factors that make conducting an accurate study difficult.

I'm not saying this is some miracle, but should be taken seriously.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

What sort of person goes around posting dubious claims (an exploratory study from OVER 10 YEARS AGO WITH NO CONCLUSIVE FOLLOWUP) about allegedly curing cancer on a site for fricking cancer suffers?

A terrible, narcissistic person only concerned with their own agenda and feelings, that's who.

You are not a healthcare professional. You are not in a position to be giving dangerous, unsolicited medical advice to cancer patients on a cancer support forum. Period.

No wonder they were deleting your posts.

You have a history of making wild, foolish claims. Got rich off your crazy "turning beer bottles into gold" scam yet? Didn't think so.

Are you like a professional troll or something?

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

I am not up on the subject but ran across this the other day and it sounded interesting.
www.viewzone.com...

Mebendazole is known to interfere and inhibit the assembly of the spindles, thus preventing the ability of the cells to divide. The cell eventually dies of old age or aptosis. Mebendazole is highly selective and somehow targets only cancerous cells (as well as a host of intestinal parasites). At the end of this article I will post a few of the many scientific papers acknowledging these facts. You will also see why there is virtually no pharmaceutical interest in mebendazole. The big pharmaceutical companies are promoting more toxic chemotherapy drugs because there is no profit margin in mebendazole. It's yet another example of corporate profit outweighing human benefits.

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

What sort of person goes around posting dubious claims (an exploratory study from OVER 10 YEARS AGO WITH NO CONCLUSIVE FOLLOWUP) about allegedly curing cancer on a site for fricking cancer suffers?

A terrible, narcissistic person only concerned with their own agenda and feelings, that's who.

You are not a healthcare professional. You are not in a position to be giving dangerous, unsolicited medical advice to cancer patients on a cancer support forum. Period.

No wonder they were deleting your posts.

You have a history of making wild, foolish claims. Got rich off your crazy "turning beer bottles into gold" scam yet? Didn't think so.

Are you like a professional troll or something?

I'm not the one who decided to spam a cancer support group with unsolicited and unqualified off-topic medical advice repeatedly to the point of having my posts removed. Not only that, but you ignored the group's repeated warnings that such unsolicited advice was not wanted nor relevant for the group.

But yeah, the cancer support group is totally in the wrong here because they wouldn't give you, an unqualified outsider, the soapbox for you to post your off-topic spam. Silly cancer victims.

Jeez, the narcissism is dripping from your posts.

I follow Dr. John McDougall as referenced by the OP. His diet is plant based and his book is called the Starch Solution. My reason for following him is to rectify the metabolic issues I've come across in my mid life. It works. Blood pressure is well controlled without any medications and am off statins.

However, if I were to get cancer, I'm sure I would change back to a carnivore. As a vegan I have to eat a lot of food to meet my dietary needs. Cancer patients can't eat that much. So yes, I would eat a bacon cheeseburger for the denser caloric intake in the event of cancer.

I will never get on a soap box about other peoples eating habits, I just do what I feel is right for me. So far, I'm doing great and have lost some major poundage.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

More evidence that illness and cancer are first and foremost a BUSINESS generating BILLIONS for the industry.

They can't have you stealing their customers with crackpot ideas like saving lives with sensible diet and exercise which cost virtually nothing by comparison.

Chemo and radiation and surgery are where it's at.

You do not have to go vegan to stop cancer. In fact in some people it may raise the risk from what I am researching. Having veggies almost every day is a good thing for most people. Same with choosing fruit over junk food.

This is in regard to cancer. Now eating vegan for a week once a year or juicing it for four days is a very healthy thing to do and it may possibly help a lot to cleanse the body.

From my studies I am convinced that diet is very relevant to cancer risk. The only thing I am sure of is that the diet needed is actually more genetic specific to lower risk of all diseases. One shoe does not fit all.

originally posted by: rickymouse
You do not have to go vegan to stop cancer. In fact in some people it may raise the risk from what I am researching. Having veggies almost every day is a good thing for most people. Same with choosing fruit over junk food.

This is in regard to cancer. Now eating vegan for a week once a year or juicing it for four days is a very healthy thing to do and it may possibly help a lot to cleanse the body.

From my studies I am convinced that diet is very relevant to cancer risk. The only thing I am sure of is that the diet needed is actually more genetic specific to lower risk of all diseases. One shoe does not fit all.

You should read the book "How Not To Die" for some additional research.

Go look up the terms: endotoxemia, heterocyclic amines, nitrosamines, IGF-1, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Find out which foods create the greatest amounts of them and how that relates to cancer risk.

a reply to: Psychonautics

Is that a joke? How in the crap do you have so many stars on this ridiculous comment. You probably love chemotherapy don't you.

originally posted by: Esoterotica
a reply to: Psychonautics

Is that a joke? How in the crap do you have so many stars on this ridiculous comment. You probably love chemotherapy don't you.

Which comment? You didn't quote it

Yeah, lol , I love me some chemo

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist

originally posted by: rickymouse
You do not have to go vegan to stop cancer. In fact in some people it may raise the risk from what I am researching. Having veggies almost every day is a good thing for most people. Same with choosing fruit over junk food.

This is in regard to cancer. Now eating vegan for a week once a year or juicing it for four days is a very healthy thing to do and it may possibly help a lot to cleanse the body.

From my studies I am convinced that diet is very relevant to cancer risk. The only thing I am sure of is that the diet needed is actually more genetic specific to lower risk of all diseases. One shoe does not fit all.

You should read the book "How Not To Die" for some additional research.

Go look up the terms: endotoxemia, heterocyclic amines, nitrosamines, IGF-1, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. Find out which foods create the greatest amounts of them and how that relates to cancer risk.

I already know a lot about all of those terms you quoted. I even know quite a bit about the enzymes that detoxify those amines and hydrocarbons. If you eat the right foods, the metabolism of most people can detox those things. The right foods include those of the plant world though. So I am not saying we do not need them, I am saying too many antioxidant foods can lead to too low of a methylation which can increase cancer risk and also possibly lower life expectancy in humans if certain plants are over consumed.

I research plants as to their medical benefits quite a bit. Mostly commonly eaten veggies and greens. I even research pharmaceuticals to find what chemistry they are based off of, many of the drugs people take could be avoided if they added a little more of certain plant chemistry to the diet. I research a lot more than a few books, and I don't actually like reading books anyway, I like to look at the research itself and summarizations of the research.

Some people can be vegans without any ill effects, but the majority can't be vegans.

a reply to: rickymouse

What the heck are you talking about?

So you know of studies that say a certain subset of people who eat a properly balanced vegan diet + B12 supplements are at an increased risk of disease? I've never seen one, so I'm curious as to what you are referring to when you say "the majority" of people can't be vegans.

Show me some studies.

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
a reply to: rickymouse

What the heck are you talking about?

So you know of studies that say a certain subset of people who eat a properly balanced vegan diet + B12 supplements are at an increased risk of disease? I've never seen one, so I'm curious as to what you are referring to when you say "the majority" of people can't be vegans.

Show me some studies.

There are three types of B12. Here is a site that kind of explains it. I usually read research articles to verify things like this I read and these things are fairly correct. www.globalhealingcenter.com...

Been studying genetics and some people have a problem absorbing B12, others have problems converting it from one form to another. Cyanocobalamin needs more steps than the other to convert and sometimes enzymes aren't working very well in this conversion. It could be from liver problems or metabolic issues, including genetic issues.

Since this problem is a concern to me, I actually did a real lot of research on this subject. I have read hundreds of articles and tried to learn possible ways to fix the problem. It even is a problem for me if I eat meat which is rare.

I just got a spray from the coop that tastes like berries. Methylcobalamin. It works well, between a spray a day and a small methyl folate, my ankles are feeling much better and so are my joints and feeling is better in my fingers and feet. The feeling in my fingers getting better sucks, I feel the cold outside too good now and keep burning my fingers snitching things out of the frying pan when cooking.

B12 isn't made by animals or plants, it is usually made by microbes in the soil and on the plants. The cows eat grass that isn't washed and also naturally have gut flora that convert it in their digestive systems. Feeding them grains all the time messes up their flora and also reduces elastin production and because of that tenderizes their muscles.

Humans can get some of it from gut microbes but we keep killing the microbes off in the gut with food chemistry and the flora is all off balance in most people. If you pull a carrot out of the ground and rinse it, it has quite a bit of b12 in a good form on it. But we scrub or peel carrots so it is mostly gone. Same with other root veggies.

Some funguses make it too, but not in the best form if I remember right.

Genetics and age also cause problems with a process called intrinsic factor. The B12 can't be absorbed well. but they do have sublingual methyl and hydroxy cobalamin sprays and lozengers. B12 and niacin can be absorbed well in the mouth. I am not sure about other B witamins, they do not seem to be a problem with me so I haven't researched them much yet. I will get to it someday.

I only take a multimineral once a day and I just did the trial on methylB12 spray and a small methylfolate and that went well. I did lots of trials on many different vitamins and minerals and a few supplements but the only ones that actually did any good were the niacin for a short time and I started to take it out of food after restoring it in the body so I only had to take it for a week or so. The multimineral is essential for me, it helps me with processing sulfur. The Bethyl b12 and folate I am going to do twice a week after getting up and running. Too much folate can trigger all the autoimmune genes to give me problem, the lupus being the one I am most concerned about. My cousin died from that. Treatment for Lupus is anti-folate therapy. So I don't want to mess with folate too much, it might be a gene correction.

I have read a hell of a lot of articles to be able to understand all of this stuff. Another thing is that the only B12 that boosts energy is cyanocobalamin, the cyanide travels to the thyroid when it is taken apart and activates the thyroid but can cause an imbalance in the adrenal gland because it takes the place of iodine and the thyroid hormone doesn't work right if it is consumed too much. Sucks that they put that kind in bread flour. It isn't going to make up for the three opiate peptides in the wheat and particularly in wheat gluten. The other three B12s actually sort of calm a person and act as a neuromodulator. If you can break them down. Also if you lack the enzyme to recycle the B12, you just excrete the ones that are partly broke down or they build up in the tissues sometimes if you don't excrete them. You can also have high levels in your blood and low levels in your cells and tissues. If your body doesn't convert them it can mess up blood tests to show you are good when actually you need already converted ones that are more broken down.

Sorry for telling you more than you probably wanted to know. My information is only as good as the research I studied and there can also be other factors not yet known about all of these processes. I keep looking for more new research all the time but B12 seems to be pretty well understood already so I can't forsee a lot of new research being funded. I am sure a little more will slowly trickle in. There are also a lot of articles I have not gotten a chance to read yet but it seems that it is getting to be all repeats when I research now.

a reply to: rickymouse

The problem with getting your information from blog articles like the one you cited is that they are often wrong. For example, that article says the only natural sources of B12 come from animal products. This is incorrect. B12 is created strictly by microbes. No animal produces B12 naturally. Farmers inject B12 supplements into livestock, so when humans eat the livestock, they get the B12 that the farmer supplemented the cattle with.

Prior to modern water treatment, humans got all the B12 they required from rivers, lakes and unwashed food. B12 supplements have been proven to be effective for treating B12 deficiency. There are no studies that suggest people who eat a vegan diet and supplement with B12 will end up deficient in B12.

I asked for studies, you provided me a blog article.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

en.wikipedia.org...

Here is an article from NIH that explains sort of what I was explaining. If you notice, this article like many more say that the type of B12 that we need is from animal sources. I mentioned in my last post that microbes are the only thing that make B12, you must have skipped reading that part. ods.od.nih.gov...

I have friends that are vegetarians and We talked about this subject. They take B12 supplements. Synthetic B12 (cyanocobalamin) can have negative health effects as I listed.

Now, in the above link from NIH it explains that the synthetic form, cyanocobalamin, is metabolized different. The cyanide is broken off and attaches to sulfur groups in the gut to form thiocyanate. That enters our system quickly and migrates to cells and particularly to the thyroid. This link explains what happens to the thiocyanate, it is about what I stated above. en.wikipedia.org... Look under biological chemistry.

I don't keep links to all the research I have done, but can find it pretty easily but it requires combining many articles when you track down how things work in the body and what all these metabolic processes do. I've read over fifty thousand articles minimum on this kind of stuff, I have read probably fifty to sixty today. I hate rereading articles to find proof for people who waste my time and do not accept my evidence.

I guess it is time to quit coming to ATS. It is wasting my time. I only came here to get incentive to do research and I have found other sources now, I have been taking courses at European colleges on this kind of stuff and am more interested in learning new things than proving I know what I know.

a reply to: rickymouse

What negative health effects?

Where's the studies?

I still haven't seen you present a single study that says supplemented B12 causes problems. You said most people can't be vegan, which is pretty big claim that requires some proof. Show me the proof. Show me the studies.

a reply to: rickymouse

If you are not afraid of prions, calf's brain is a good source of B-12 and have lot of good fatty acids, and it taste not bad at all.

I hate rereading articles to find proof for people who waste my time and do not accept my evidence.

I guess it is time to quit coming to ATS. It is wasting my time. I only came here to get incentive to do research and I have found other sources now, I have been taking courses at European colleges on this kind of stuff and am more interested in learning new things than proving I know what I know.

You are not alone thinking ATS is beginning to be a BIG loss of time!!!

By the way, what do you think about gettin raw DNA data from a place like 23andme and study it to identify mutated and/or misregulated genes producing faulty enzymes?

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
a reply to: GoShredAK

Yeah, it's very frustrating to see such valuable information being withheld from people who are suffering because a few blow-hards are offended by vegans for some bizarre reason.

They're not offended by vegans, they're offended because it's a forum aimed at a very specific group of people with a shared experience to talk openly with each other... and you've just blundered in sounding like a sanctimonious git pimping their own personal views on a deeply personal matter that doesn't really affect them whatsoever.

How about you wander onto the local cancer ward for children, find the one who looks like they're closer to death, and say to the parents - "Hey, if only you'd made them eat more celery, they wouldn't be dying! Sucks to be you, brosephs." That's essentially the same thing as you've done on that forum.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: rickymouse

If you are not afraid of prions, calf's brain is a good source of B-12 and have lot of good fatty acids, and it taste not bad at all.

I hate rereading articles to find proof for people who waste my time and do not accept my evidence.

I guess it is time to quit coming to ATS. It is wasting my time. I only came here to get incentive to do research and I have found other sources now, I have been taking courses at European colleges on this kind of stuff and am more interested in learning new things than proving I know what I know.

You are not alone thinking ATS is beginning to be a BIG loss of time!!!

By the way, what do you think about gettin raw DNA data from a place like 23andme and study it to identify mutated and/or misregulated genes producing faulty enzymes?

I did the ancestry thing and use Livewello and promethius for doing my research. It takes a lot of research to translate what they say into useful changes in the diet. I had to take a cancer class and did learn some things from conferring with the instructor. I have my daughters and grandchildrens done too. My one daughter wants to send a sample to 23 and me to have it done there too, I told her go for it, I can then get access to their research and use it to help interpret the rest of the family. There is another company that pulls lots more snps that are relevant to medical issues, but they charge eight hundred bucks to have it sequenced. I already knew from previous research that I had less enzyme activity, my normal body temperature is ninety seven F and my granddaughters, fathers, mothers, and brothers were also right around the same thing. Specific temperature ranges are necessary to activate some enzymes also. Between 97 and 98.6 you gain quite a bit of enzyme activity.

a reply to: rickymouse

Thanks for the suggestions.

My problem is that I'm not sure of how companies like 23andme produce the raw DNA data they offer for download (not the reports they generate). I believe they simply take the reference genome data from NCBI and simply add the ? numbers of SNPs they got using an Illumina OmniExpress Plus Genotyping BeadChip. In fact, I'm not sure of the coverage of the raw data.

About the enzymes, what I'm looking to do is not to generally improve enzymes operation but interested in very specific individual enzymes. Like someone having Hereditary fructose intolerance, that condition is cause by a deficiency of the enzyme 'Aldolase B' (EC 4.1.2.13) that split fructose 1,6-bisphosphate (F1,6BP) into Dihydroxyacetone phosphate (DHAP) and glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate (G3P). That enzyme 'Aldolase B' is encoded and regulated in specific genes (in Protein Data Bank coded as ALDOB) that we could find in the raw DNA data.

In other word, use the raw data if the coverage is sufficient to verify integrity of specific genes encoding specific enzymes for the purpose of detecting disease not included in 23andme human readable reports.

I know such questions should be asked to a PhD, but anyone having some info on this is welcome.