Russia Guilty Of Syria War Crimes, Says Amnesty

a reply to: whatsup86

Sorry, but Elliot Higgins has zero credibility. The guy was described as a perfect example of how not to do image analysis by the actual author of the software he used. He's had his time and served his purpose, but he's been debunked so many times now he's just a joke.

Assads an Alawhite....Shia sort of....
The Russians are bombing Sunnis......

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: whatsup86

Sorry, but Elliot Higgins has zero credibility. The guy was described as a perfect example of how not to do image analysis by the actual author of the software he used. He's had his time and served his purpose, but he's been debunked so many times now he's just a joke.

Refute the article...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Oh my! You really aren't serious as there are more than enough witness accounts and video accounts of Russia using cluster bombs in Syria...to deny that would be a fallacy.

I never said that they didnt .I said that like Saudi's or other army's using them is not the point in the legal aspect of it . They are legal to use .They are not legal when you target civilians but need a target of a military nature .The terrorist groups operate by moving around and even use Toyota trucks to do so . Targeting them is legal .Targeting the civilian population is not . Civilians are causalities of this war .They have been right from the start with all of the head loping organ eating terrorizing of the country of Syria .

Russia is guilty of war crimes ?

and ?

nothing new there; Red Army wasn't exactly known for diplomacy & humanitarian treatment of enemy.

Ask Germans , they know.

Having read with frustration many of the discussion on this thread, I think that people defending Russia's actions have lost the plot. When the US hit a hospital in Afghanistan, NATO admitted the mistake and the media were up in arms, including RT.com. People on these Boards pilloried the US for their mistake.

When many hospitals are flattened by Russian warplanes and evidence of other indiscriminate killings emerge we get (er) silence from RT.com, no admission from the Russian authorities, and people on these Boards throwing in all sorts of excuses and justifications.

'nuff said.

a reply to: paraphi

We rarely agree, but you have hit the nail on the head.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: whatsup86

Sorry, but Elliot Higgins has zero credibility. The guy was described as a perfect example of how not to do image analysis by the actual author of the software he used. He's had his time and served his purpose, but he's been debunked so many times now he's just a joke.

Just by searching for clusterbombs in syria on youtube I came across these, within a minute:

www.youtube.com...

Skip to 0:48. Same bomb as RT recorded on the Russian base, which Bellingcat discusses. The civilians in the video even say it are Russian raids.

www.youtube.com...

Skip to 0:22 Same bomb as RT recorded on the Russian base, which Bellingcat discusses.

www.youtube.com...

And these are Russian bombs, so unless you believe Turkey or the US have those as well and drop them in areas the SAA is active in, I think theres a pretty strong case that the Russians are dropping them. Absolute proof no, but everything points in the direction of Russia.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

They are not legal when you target civilians but need a target of a military nature .

And yet Russia is using them in the city of Aleppo where there are still civilians, which btw is where the cowards of ISIS are hiding...among the civilians.

So that is not something that isn't well known and Russia knows that as well, but that doesn't stop them from bombing civilians hoping to get ISIS.

The terrorist groups operate by moving around and even use Toyota trucks to do so . Targeting them is legal .

Sure but when they hide amongst the civilian population cluster bombs aren't the way to get them as that is putting whatever civilians around them in danger.

I see a bit of hypocrisy going on since on one hand you condemn the use of cluster bombs used by Saudi Arabia against those who have launched attacks against their country, but have no problems with Russia doing it while going after ISIS.

Civilians are causalities of this war .

Especially when you don't value their lives, just so you can say see we are bombing ISIS.

The Syrian people mean nothing to Putin and the Russian military. They just want their stake in the ME and they don't care who they hurt to get it.

Moscow's UN envoy criticises Syrian leader for claiming he can retake the whole country and says he has to 'follow Russia's leadership'

Russia has always insisted it is not “wedded” to the idea of Mr Assad staying in power, only to preserving the Syrian state.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

.They have been right from the start with all of the head loping organ eating terrorizing of the country of Syria .

So they were right when they bomb civilian areas that have no ISIS fighters near, because that is what they have done.

a reply to: paraphi

I only post this as its not as simple as you put it .

What happened?

In the early morning of 3 October, a US AC-130 gunship conducted an air strike on what crew members thought was a Taliban compound.

US officials have blamed malfunctioning electronics and human error for the targeting mistake.""

"" The US in November 2015 said that the crew of a warplane that attacked the hospital misidentified it - believing it to be a government compound taken over by the Taliban.""

"" An investigation by the US in November 2015 said that the crew of the AC-130 gunship relied on a physical description of the compound provided by Afghan forces. It was this which led the crew to attack the wrong hospital, which was about 410m (1345ft) away from the intended target.""

"" The US military and MSF have differing accounts of the barrage, including the duration and the attempts made to stop it.

The military claims that the strike lasted for approximately 29 minutes, and ended before commanders realised a mistake had been made - despite a call from MSF urging an end to the firing 12 minutes into the attack.

The charity says that the firing lasted for nearly an hour, and desperate phone calls asking the military to stop firing were still being made about 20 minutes after the military says the assault ended.

MSF says the warring sides were well aware of the hospital's location in Kunduz, and have described the attack as a war crime and a black day in its history.

In a review released in early November, the charity said there were no weapons or fighting inside the compound in Kunduz before the bombing started.

The report said hospital staff were shot at from the air while fleeing the premises."" www.bbc.com...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I believe in the case in Yemen it was a fishing village and other residential areas . In Aleppo there are pockets of civilians and also areas where there is no civilians . Did you watch the bombing of Baghdad by the US . Did you notice the surgical nature of the bombing . I wonder if any schools ,markets ,or other civilian places got hit or was it just military places . I wonder how many terrorist were killed with drone strikes on wedding parties over the years . I am sure someone is keeping score of it all though .

a reply to: whatsup86

I think theres a pretty strong case that the Russians are dropping them.

Wait you didn't know the US has a bunch of Russian planes that use Russian munitions just so they could frame Russia.

I thought everyone knew that.

a reply to: the2ofusr1
And you can quote all this because the US have put it all in the public domain.

Why is Russia so closed? Why is Russia so carefree with this type of action? Why are people defending Russia's actions in the killings of civilians and the bombings of hospitals? I mean, for heaven's sake, cluster bombs. This is not Grozny. The world has moved on to at least trying to avoid civilian casualties.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

a reply to: the2ofusr1

I believe in the case in Yemen it was a fishing village and other residential areas .

SO you know for a fact there were no fighters near either of these, because it has been shown Russia bombed civilian areas that had no fighter near that area.

The organization’s research into these strikes indicate that there were no military targets or fighters in the immediate vicinity of the areas that were struck.

www.amnesty.org...

Did you notice the surgical nature of the bombing . I wonder if any schools ,markets ,or other civilian places got hit or was it just military places . I wonder how many terrorist were killed with drone strikes on wedding parties over the years . I am sure someone is keeping score of it all though .

Well for one thing this isn't about what the US has done in the past, because this discussion is about Russia and their war crimes.

Way to try and move the discussion away from the actual premise of the thread.

a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I will never ever watch sky. Why don't ATS put sky on the list of fake news.

This is crap that they are selling to people, but I see many wise men in this topic that see trough this crap propaganda news.

Can't believe this things still work...

a reply to: the2ofusr1

MSF says the warring sides were well aware of the hospital's location in Kunduz, and have described the attack as a war crime and a black day in its history.

So now the MSF are a credible source when it goes against the US, but not so much when it comes to Russia...why is that?

Seems to me that if an organization is used as a source for credible reporting then it is the same no matter what country they are in.

In a review released in early November, the charity said there were no weapons or fighting inside the compound in Kunduz before the bombing started.

When did this thread go from what RUssia did to what the US admitted to?

a reply to: saadad

I will never ever watch sky. Why don't ATS put sky on the list of fake news.

SO what makes this a fake news company?

Just because don't like what they say that doesn't make it fake.

a reply to: paraphi

Why is Russia so closed? Why is Russia so carefree with this type of action? Why are people defending Russia's actions in the killings of civilians and the bombings of hospitals? I mean, for heaven's sake, cluster bombs. This is not Grozny. The world has moved on to at least trying to avoid civilian casualties.

The devil could be in the details . On another thread it was said that the hospitals wouldn't identify themselves as hospitals out of fear of getting bombed . In the Afghanistan piece I linked to it says "" According to Human Rights Watch, "given the hospital's protected status and the large numbers of civilians and medical personnel in the facility, attacking the hospital would still likely have been an unlawfully disproportionate attack, causing greater harm to civilians and civilian structures than any immediate military gain.
"The laws of war require that even if military forces misuse a hospital to deploy able-bodied combatants or weapons, the attacking force must issue a warning to cease this misuse, setting a reasonable time limit for it to end, and attacking only after such a warning has gone unheeded," the group said in a statement.
Under international humanitarian law "constant care must be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects".
Medical units, the rules say, "must be respected and protected in all circumstances", although "they lose their protection if they are being used, outside their humanitarian function, to commit acts harmful to the enemy".""

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

So now the MSF are a credible source when it goes against the US, but not so much when it comes to Russia...why is that?

maybe just maybe they didn't fall into a protected or identified hospital . Yo know out of fear of getting bombed .

I'm sure it is.

Show me a war where crimes are not committed by all sides.

This is not a soccer match with a referee, a red card and a sin bin. This is real life war. People die every time someone opens fire.

I've seen what goes on at the front line first hand in Bosnia back in the 1990's.

Everyone is kidding themselves if they think that armed conflict is a clean game with rules that are abided by.

War is evil. Our best hope is that peace can be restored to Syria and Iraq very soon. I don't hold out much hope though while outside nations think they have a right to decide Syria's fate.