UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

As I said before your true colours are on show for all to see.

It is fine to have a political agenda but to use what you did as fuel for your fire is weak at best.

Also to become angry and call me a wanker is just puerile.

Bring it to the table in an adult manner or leave it in the school playground.

Do not become angry towards me because your true intentions have become transparent due to your own actions and words.

You insult someone without justification then you get told what you are. And manhood don't go there! Please refrain from any further posts in my thread. They are not welcome. This thread was fine without you!

Mods - Please delete any further posts from 'nonspecific'.
Thank you

You cannot do that you fool!

This only furthers the truth in that you are only interested in those who agree with your views!

This is a discussion forum not a soap box for you to spread your silly propaganda.

Refrain from commenting indeed...

Rubbish! I wish you to refrain from positing in the thread because you unjustifiably insulted me and suggested that I stooped low. The only fool here is you! You are clearly an inadequate!

Like I said W!!!

My accusing you of using the Belgian bombings to further your own cause was not an insult it was a personal opinion on the disgraceful lengths that you will go to to put forward your political opinion.

Do you really think that calling me names and demanding that I no longer participate in an open discussion on a public forum is going to affect me?

What I will do is get back to the topic in hand and refrain from your wish to bicker in a petty and quite honestly embarrassing fashion.

Go away silly person. No one used anything!

You really are making yourself look foolish now.

You want to exclude me from a discussion because my opinion differs from yours.

You call me names and think the mods will remove my comments at your request.

As I said I will comment as I please and as long as the terms and conditions of the site are met I have as much right to be a part of this discussion as you or anyone else.

No lets get back on topic if you don't mind.

PL..KER! Your input became tiresome for others posting in this thread a while ago and I guess its now become the same for the OP! But in any long thread there is always one who wishes to be a spoiler particularly when they are clearly in a minority!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

As I said before your true colours are on show for all to see.

It is fine to have a political agenda but to use what you did as fuel for your fire is weak at best.

Also to become angry and call me a wanker is just puerile.

Bring it to the table in an adult manner or leave it in the school playground.

Do not become angry towards me because your true intentions have become transparent due to your own actions and words.

You insult someone without justification then you get told what you are. And manhood don't go there! Please refrain from any further posts in my thread. They are not welcome. This thread was fine without you!

Mods - Please delete any further posts from 'nonspecific'.
Thank you

You cannot do that you fool!

This only furthers the truth in that you are only interested in those who agree with your views!

This is a discussion forum not a soap box for you to spread your silly propaganda.

Refrain from commenting indeed...

Rubbish! I wish you to refrain from positing in the thread because you unjustifiably insulted me and suggested that I stooped low. The only fool here is you! You are clearly an inadequate!

Like I said W!!!

My accusing you of using the Belgian bombings to further your own cause was not an insult it was a personal opinion on the disgraceful lengths that you will go to to put forward your political opinion.

Do you really think that calling me names and demanding that I no longer participate in an open discussion on a public forum is going to affect me?

What I will do is get back to the topic in hand and refrain from your wish to bicker in a petty and quite honestly embarrassing fashion.

Go away silly person. No one used anything!

You really are making yourself look foolish now.

You want to exclude me from a discussion because my opinion differs from yours.

You call me names and think the mods will remove my comments at your request.

As I said I will comment as I please and as long as the terms and conditions of the site are met I have as much right to be a part of this discussion as you or anyone else.

No lets get back on topic if you don't mind.

PL..KER! Your input became tiresome for others posting in this thread a while ago and I guess its now become the same for the OP! But in any long thread there is always one who wishes to be a spoiler particularly when they are clearly in a minority!

You really do seem quite angry if I may say so.

This can happen in a long political debate but the need for primary school type insults really does nothing for the continuance in your thread.

I have suggested that we keep on topic and put this silly bickering behind us.

I will also suggest that you take a break and regain your composure so we can continue to discuss what is one of the most important questions in our lifetimes.

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

As I said before your true colours are on show for all to see.

It is fine to have a political agenda but to use what you did as fuel for your fire is weak at best.

Also to become angry and call me a wanker is just puerile.

Bring it to the table in an adult manner or leave it in the school playground.

Do not become angry towards me because your true intentions have become transparent due to your own actions and words.

You insult someone without justification then you get told what you are. And manhood don't go there! Please refrain from any further posts in my thread. They are not welcome. This thread was fine without you!

Mods - Please delete any further posts from 'nonspecific'.
Thank you

You cannot do that you fool!

This only furthers the truth in that you are only interested in those who agree with your views!

This is a discussion forum not a soap box for you to spread your silly propaganda.

Refrain from commenting indeed...

Rubbish! I wish you to refrain from positing in the thread because you unjustifiably insulted me and suggested that I stooped low. The only fool here is you! You are clearly an inadequate!

Like I said W!!!

My accusing you of using the Belgian bombings to further your own cause was not an insult it was a personal opinion on the disgraceful lengths that you will go to to put forward your political opinion.

Do you really think that calling me names and demanding that I no longer participate in an open discussion on a public forum is going to affect me?

What I will do is get back to the topic in hand and refrain from your wish to bicker in a petty and quite honestly embarrassing fashion.

Go away silly person. No one used anything!

You really are making yourself look foolish now.

You want to exclude me from a discussion because my opinion differs from yours.

You call me names and think the mods will remove my comments at your request.

As I said I will comment as I please and as long as the terms and conditions of the site are met I have as much right to be a part of this discussion as you or anyone else.

No lets get back on topic if you don't mind.

PL..KER! Your input became tiresome for others posting in this thread a while ago and I guess its now become the same for the OP! But in any long thread there is always one who wishes to be a spoiler particularly when they are clearly in a minority!

You really do seem quite angry if I may say so.

This can happen in a long political debate but the need for primary school type insults really does nothing for the continuance in your thread.

I have suggested that we keep on topic and put this silly bickering behind us.

I will also suggest that you take a break and regain your composure so we can continue to discuss what is one of the most important questions in our lifetimes.

Your post not read -just ignored!

Latest from Vote LEAVE - More interesting points in favour of leaving the EU. It would be nice to see some of the REMAIN voters address all these Vote LEAVE points posted in this thread.

We send £350 million a week to the EU – enough to build a new hospital a week
We get 250,000 migrants a year – it’s out of control and damages the NHS
It’s safer to take back control and spend our money on our priorities


Imagine if we Vote Leave in 92 days’ time… We can support our farmers in a much more targeted and effective manner, rather than rely on the outdated Common Agricultural Policy which fills the wallets of rich landowners and damages agriculture in developing African countries.

Launch of Farmers for Britain

Farmers from all sectors of the industry who believe that UK agriculture would be better off outside the EU have today launched Farmers for Britain. www.farmersforbritain.co.uk...
Farming Minister George Eustice, who worked for over a decade in agriculture himself, gave a speech this morning outlining how no farmer will be left without support after we Vote Leave. With the Farming Minister making clear that the safer option is to Vote Leave, don’t believe the scaremongering and pessimism of the IN campaign.

The EU’s Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) is bad for farmers and bad for Britain. It is extremely bureaucratic – farmers often find themselves being fined for failing to comply with burdensome and complex rules made by unelected EU officials who don’t understand the UK’s industry, climate and geography. For years Brussels has promised reforms to the outdated CAP system – but, as ever with the EU, this has not happened.

In 2015, the UK paid £5.5 billion for the CAP, but only received £2.9 billion back. As we already pay in twice as much to the EU budget as we get out, this means that we will be able to continue to fund our farmers after we Vote Leave, just as we did before we joined the EU. When we Vote Leave we can spend our money on our priorities, and ensure that our farming industry receives the targeted support it needs.



EU threat to our national security

The former leader of the Conservative Party, Michael Howard, spoke last night www.dailymail.co.uk... sign-welcoming-terrorists-Europe.html
about the impact the EU has on our national security. The speech, written before yesterday’s appalling attacks in Brussels, outlined how much control we have handed over to the EU.

The European Commission and the European Court now control how we find and fight terrorists. Unelected EU judges also prevent us from removing criminals who assist terrorists.

As the former Home Secretary Lord Howard said in his speech, the EU ‘is a flawed and failing project which is making many of its inhabitants poorer than they should or need be and is failing to keep its people safe.

‘The first is a consequence of the euro which has an exchange rate far too high for the crippled economies of southern Europe – though, because it is lower than the Deutschmark would have been, helps to make Germany’s exports competitive.

‘The second is a consequence of the Schengen agreement www.nytimes.com... which, according to the former head of Interpol, is like hanging a sign welcoming terrorists to Europe.

‘These two projects … are seen by many leaders of the EU as the crown jewels of the new Europe. But both are creaking. The cracks are widening. The very future of the EU is uncertain. So staying in is as much a leap in the dark as leaving.’

That’s why the safer option is to Vote Leave and take back control on 23 June.


Today’s must reads:

Europe is acting as a 'welcome sign' to terrorists, warns former Tory leader - Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk... leader.html


A Brexit would make average Briton $30,000 better off by 2020, says report - CityAM www.cityam.com...


Safety myth - Sun www.thesun.co.uk...



The EU aspires to be a state but fails to deal with the enemy within - Philip Johnston, Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk... n.html


Italy calls for common European defence after Brussels attacks - EurActiv www.euractiv.com...

a reply to: anxiouswens

No. Scotland has been denied it's independence twice now by Westminster through underhand methods such as biased BBC, changing rules part way through, breaking purdah laws, and outright lying.

So it's desperate times for Scottish people. We have to do whatever it takes to rid us of the corrupt corporate establishment at Westminster. First day after Scottish Independence vote what does David Cameron talk about. EVEL. English Votes for English Laws. Or put another way more power to England. Scottish MP's are now ignored at Westminster. None of the promises made leading up the the vote have been delivered.

So we can't believe a single thing coming from Westminster. People in England will start to see the same tactics used on them to keep us in EU.

I will not fall for any more tricks. I hope all of Scotland votes to stay in EU even if they don't want to. And if that results in England being stuck in EU then so be it. It will be your own fault for doing the dirty on Scotland. I will laugh my head off and yes I will have a massive party watching the English crying about how the Scots have forced them into something they don't want. Try living here. That's what Scotland has to put up with every day. Being told what to do by Tories we have never voted for. It will be huge Karma as far as I'm concerned. See my signature .... "what goes around comes around"

Maybe even the English will demand another EU referendum but one that does not include Scottish votes. So they will first of all vote to break up the Union and then they can do what they like.

a reply to: bigyin

Bitter much?

We lost the referendum, it's a simple fact of life. 55% of our fellow countrymen decided that they preferred the status quo and voted to keep the union.
I said at the time, that I didn't want to leave the UK if it meant our sovereignty went to the EU and I stick by that.
You have so much hatred for Westminster that you would rather sell our country out to the EU. That isn't patriotism, it's stupidism.

a reply to: mclarenmp4

The MP4, a fine car I got a chance to drive. For a hefty fee.

General comment about the thread -

don't suppose anyone's linked to a Bernie thread yet?

You'd think it would be pretty easy to just post a link to some thread/s Bernie has posted in. I wonder why nobody is able to do so? Scared of what I might read?

a reply to: bigyin

No. Scotland has been denied it's independence twice now by Westminster through underhand methods such as biased BBC, changing rules part way through, breaking purdah laws, and outright lying.

Err, no.
Scotland has been 'denied' its independence simply because more Scots voted against independence than voted for it.
Straight forward Yes or No question and the Scottish people voted to remain in the Union.
Simple as that.

Yes, Westminster - and by extension the No voters - used underhand methods.
But only a blind fool would deny that the Yes campaign used equally underhand and unethical tactics.

As for changing rules.
Like what exactly?
And please bear in mind that the rules - including votes for 16 year olds and denying the vote to Scots living elsewhere in the UK, both of which aimed at garnering a greater percentage in favour of independence - were devised by The Scottish Parliament and related bodies, all of which were massively in favour of independence.

And lying.
Kettle and pot springs to mind.

So it's desperate times for Scottish people.

Isn't it always?

The reality is that there are other regions of the UK that are far worse off than Scotland that don't get anywhere near the amount of preferential treatment that Scotland does.

We have to do whatever it takes to rid us of the corrupt corporate establishment at Westminster.

I can understand that - I'm certainly no lover of Westminster.
But replacing it with a far more corrupt, amoral and unrestrained entity that is the heavily centralised EU surely can't be the answer.

First day after Scottish Independence vote what does David Cameron talk about. EVEL. English Votes for English Laws. Or put another way more power to England.

That is absolute bollocks, and surely you know that?

There is an independent Northern Irish Assembly, as there are Welsh and Scottish one's.
They have autonomous power on a multitude of issues that relate to those specific constituent parts of the UK.
That is as it should be - devolved power.

There is no such English equivalent.
The English people would like one, just as the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish have.
That leaves Westminster to deal with matters that affect the whole of the UK as a single sovereign nation.
What exactly is wrong with that?
Please explain in as much detail as you see fit.

Scottish MP's are now ignored at Westminster.

What, like how they voted to impose University fee's on English students even though Scottish students don't have too.

None of the promises made leading up the the vote have been delivered.

Yes, I know that....and if I was Scottish I'd be raging over that too.
But again, surely the answer isn't to commit to another body that would pay even less attention to the Scots.
Surely its better to join with like minded individuals throughout the UK and seek to change the Union into something we all can be proud of?

So we can't believe a single thing coming from Westminster.

I agree.

People in England will start to see the same tactics used on them to keep us in EU.

Perhaps, we'll see.

I will not fall for any more tricks. I hope all of Scotland votes to stay in EU even if they don't want to. And if that results in England being stuck in EU then so be it. It will be your own fault for doing the dirty on Scotland.

How exactly have I or the vast majority of English done the 'dirty on Scotland'?

I will laugh my head off and yes I will have a massive party watching the English crying about how the Scots have forced them into something they don't want.

You seem consumed with bitterness and hatred, it must be incredibly wearying.

Try living here.

Try living here in North East England, can't recall anyone from Westminster ever doing anything for us here - we've been shat on at least as much as Scotland.

Same can be said for numerous parts of England - as one particular member of ATS keeps on reminding us, look at the serial non-investment in SW England, or the North West etc.

Being told what to do by Tories we have never voted for.

Ditto.

But I fail to see how remaining in the EU will be any better.
North East England will simple be a boil on their arse that needs lancing.....as I suspect Scotland would be if it went alone into the EU.

It will be huge Karma as far as I'm concerned. See my signature .... "what goes around comes around"

'Be careful what you wish for' and 'Better the devil you know' may be more apt in this instance!

a reply to: bigyin

Too much Buckfast this afternoon or something?
You sound like a bitter auld whinge bag, you had the vote and lost, get over it.

If the 'Remain' crowd win by 55% in June I shall accept it as the people's choice, tough luck for me, and move on in the new reality. I won't be whinging like you are, go on, for the icing on the cake why don't you post a braveheart image and shout "FREEDOM!!!"

'Scotland' by definition is a Roman invasion imaginary border. They invented it, to divide Britain (or whatever it was called back then, Briton? I forget) into 'the bits that are a pushover' and 'that bit up the top with the mad painted people that eat us'.

It's good Gaelic exists now. But what happened to the Pict language? Gone.

What happened to real Briton - where's the Druids, the real ones, that used to rule these isles. I want my sacred land back, and I want all these shysters out of the whole of Briton. Go back to where your ages ago ancestors invaded here from, and stay there instead. And nevermind the Romans, they stabbed Cesar ages ago, and it was him that said this place was an overgrown mess that needed cut back.

Not that I believe any polls after last years general election, but for information purposes:

Reuters Link

British 'Out' campaign takes 2 percentage point lead ahead of EU referendum – ICM poll

The campaign for Britain to leave the European Union has taken a 2 percentage point lead, according to an ICM poll, indicating a dispute in the Conservative Party may have dented confidence in Prime Minister David Cameron's push for the country to stay in.

Support for Britain to leave the EU rose to 43 percent, up 2 percentage points from a similar poll a week ago and the highest proportion in favour of a British exit since ICM started its referendum tracker in May 2015.

Three months before a June 23 referendum, the poll of 2,000 people carried out March 18-20 showed the "In" campaign on 41 percent, down from 43 percent a week ago.

a reply to: grainofsand

I will say that as an "IN" voter I am only now starting to take the possibility of an "OUT" vote victory as a real possibility.

Until now I was pretty sure that we would stay in but the proof is there for all to see.

I may have to have a good look at how this may affect things now.

Seems like the "OUT" vote is starting to gain some real serious ground.

a reply to: nonspecific

After last year I'm taking polls with a large pinch of salt
I reckon anything could happen in the next 3 months, geo-politically or otherwise, and I can't wait to cast my vote to be honest.

The night of the count will be exciting, like waiting for the result of a close horse race, but with much higher stakes.
I'll definitely be up all night for that if the vote is being counted on a constituency basis.
...I will be absolutely wounded if we vote to stay though, but I'll lick my wounds and move on instead of whinging lol

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: nonspecific

After last year I'm taking polls with a large pinch of salt

I reckon anything could happen in the next 3 months, geo-politically or otherwise, and I can't wait to cast my vote to be honest.

The night of the count will be exciting, like waiting for the result of a close horse race, but with much higher stakes.
I'll definitely be up all night for that if the vote is being counted on a constituency basis.
...I will be absolutely wounded if we vote to stay though, but I'll lick my wounds and move on instead of whinging lol

It's not the polls but the general opinions I am coming across.

It will certainly be a photo finish unless Dave pulls out the "amazing deal" that I think has been in the bag all along.

It really is looking to be an across the board split with rich and poor, left and right all with different opinions.

It is odd for me though because I was anti EU before it was cool and have now changed my mind.

As to whatever happens I like to remember that it's only big politics and regardless of the outcome everyone will wake up in the morning and go to the same job in the same car and have the same old crappy life. The pots will still need washing and taxes will still be too high, Google will still evade corporation tax and politicians will still lie cheat and abuse children.

I just hope that everyone that thinks it will change things in a way that will be noticable will not be too dissapointed.

originally posted by: nonspecific
It's not the polls but the general opinions I am coming across.

It will certainly be a photo finish unless Dave pulls out the "amazing deal" that I think has been in the bag all along.

It really is looking to be an across the board split with rich and poor, left and right all with different opinions.

It is odd for me though because I was anti EU before it was cool and have now changed my mind.

As to whatever happens I like to remember that it's only big politics and regardless of the outcome everyone will wake up in the morning and go to the same job in the same car and have the same old crappy life. The pots will still need washing and taxes will still be too high, Google will still evade corporation tax and politicians will still lie cheat and abuse children.

I just hope that everyone that thinks it will change things in a way that will be noticable will not be too dissapointed.

I imagine there will be massive change regardless of the result.
'Leave' means out of the EU, and if we are not forced to vote again and actually leave there will be massive change, especially if Scotland votes to stay in the EU.

'Remain' means the EU knows that British people have accepted it so it will have a free reign to move on as it wishes. There will be a huge change in the relationship and bargaining power the UK has with the EU after choosing to stay.
We'll be like the guy who threatens to leave his rugby club then comes back to training begging for a place on the bench next Saturday.

This vote in June is hugely important and will change much in the UK whatever the outcome.
I think a lot of folk do not realise how big this actually is, for us, and our future generations.

originally posted by: bigyin


So it's desperate times for Scottish people. We have to do whatever it takes to rid us of the corrupt corporate establishment at Westminster.

Most often it is the bigger the *power prize* the more corruption it involves.
So you're advocating you will be happier with the bigger corruption of the
EU than the lesser corruption of the much smaller Westminster? LOL!!
The EU can change the silly meagre conscessions Cameron thinks he has gained...
just like that!!! And it has never been audited, there are vast sums of money that
cannot be accounted for .... They are accountable to no one

First day after Scottish Independence vote what does David Cameron talk about. EVEL. English Votes for English Laws. Or put another way more power to England. Scottish MP's are now ignored at Westminster.

EVEL AND WHY EVER NOT? The Scots have their own government for
their own affairs in Holyrood.
# The Scottish government oversaw the bid for the Commonwealth games
# Holyrood is responsible for education system from nursery to university
# Scotland has its own Qualifications Authority to deal with exam systems
# Scotland has its own climate change agenda and water quality regulations
# MSP's passed an ambitious bid to cut carbon emissions(climate change bill)
# Scottish gov. can refuse applications for nuclear power stations
# Holyrood has control over rural, forestry, and heritage development
# Holyrood is responsible for its own NHS, Mental health, Pharmaceutical
services, Dentistry, Drink and Drug treatments.
# Scottish gov. banned smoking in public places, and are bringing in a min.
cost on alcohol.
# Holyrood has control over planning, land use, building standards, housing
and regeneration projects.
# It has its own legal and justice system, and as such legislates issues on
courts, prisons and policing.
# It also controls youth justice, legal aid, and the legal profession.
# It has control over its own drink drive limits and regulations over air weapons
# The Scottish gov. oversees and funds the 32 local councils.

I hope all of Scotland votes to stay in EU even if they don't want to. And if that results in England being stuck in EU then so be it. It will be your own fault for doing the dirty on Scotland. I will laugh my head off and yes I will have a massive party watching the English crying about how the Scots have forced them into something they don't want. Try living here. That's what Scotland has to put up with every day. Being told what to do by Tories we have never voted for. It will be huge Karma as far as I'm concerned.

What a sad person you are!! (shakes head) Scotland has a lot of say in their own
affairs as I pointed out above. But its far easier to blame the Tories for ALL your
problems!! instead of taking responsibility. sad sad..........

"what goes around comes around"

*IT SURE DOES* So watch your backside.

a reply to: eletheia

Even after denying the vote to Scottish people living elsewhere in the UK, and giving the vote to 16/17 year olds & EU nationals, the SNP still lost, and yet they still whinge lol.

I must say though, I'm glad EU nationals have not got the vote in June. A million+ people voting 'remain' could have made a massive difference.
I'm also pleased because it makes the SNP so angry that their 50 odd MP's couldn't do a thing about it except whinge lol

Is this the ongoing thread or one of the other 10 threads the O.P has posted about the ongoing thread? I'm beginning to become confused by it all.

Anyway, I'm still for leaving.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Is this the ongoing thread or one of the other 10 threads the O.P has posted about the ongoing thread? I'm beginning to become confused by it all.

Anyway, I'm still for leaving.

Haha yep, this is the ongoing thread!

I've been sticking around in this one as it does have some flow to it, and seems to have become the dominant one.
Just a pity it's lost in a forum that is 'off-topc' or the old Below Top Secret if you know what I mean. It is one of the biggest votes in generations.

Pleased you are voting leave fella

a reply to: grainofsand

To be fair, most of the people I have talked to about the referendum want out, in fact I would probably say around 70%.

If that is indicative of the result in June, happy days!!