UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

ITV and Piers Morgan reporting Boris Johnson is joining Leave Campaign. I hope this is true because like him or loathe him his personality will outshine the Corporate image of Cameron, Osborne and May and he is used to leading big campaigns such as Mayor of London.

I'm OUT and have signed up to help with canvassing/typing/admin. If you are out get volunteering in any small way.

originally posted by: Painterz
I'm yet to hear a good argument for 'out' that doesn't ultimately boil down to a false belief or a fear of evil immigrants.

Then your blind cause my concerns I list over and over again have F all to do wirh immigrants.

originally posted by: PainterzWhereas 'in' can make good arguments about EU subsidies, EU employment law protections, EU court of human rights protections,

Things we had before the EU and we can keep. Leaving the EU doesn't mean 16 hour work days and concentration camps.

Canada and Australia are not in the EU and live well.

originally posted by: Painterzthe massive importance of free trade, open borders,

Free trade wont be going away.
Open borders I should care why? It Stop the UKipers whingeing. To to be honest dont care either way.

originally posted by: Painterz and not to mention 2 million brits who live in Europe who will wind up getting kicked out.

And I should give two #s why?

They are not my problem.

Hell i doubt they will be kicked out any more than we will kick out tye settled poles, its simply to much hassle and just being a dick.

Thank you to those who have so far contributed to this thread. Calling all ATSers, lets have your input and view in order to gauge the likely outcome of the referendum in early June.

originally posted by: stinkelbaum
until the out campaign come up with a logical argument to leave, other than johnny foreigner, stay.
if michael gove is the best they can get their doomed.
seen as murdoch supports out and the british public are dumb it may be close though.

^^^ This is something people aren't too aware of in the general population. When Murdoch's press want political change, it's because he sees an environment that's good for his business interests. He's not in it for the common man or woman, he's in it for his self-interest.

Wider afield, I haven't decided which way I'd vote...although we'll be staying in regardless. Cameron's using the Thatcher play-book and will want the UK to see him as a valiant defender of UK interests when he's more of a middle-man for corporate interest...imo.

Given the current rampant xenophobic hysteria being played out in right wing media I imagine this will be closer than a lot of people think.

Thing is, we are a small country - regardless of whatever BS people might want to spin. On our own and outside of the EU block we have much, much less of a voice to be heard on the international stage. So lets not get high on our own self importance - this is not the 1940's. We aren't self sufficient, we have very little manufacturing base any more and not much in the way (except the nuclear deterrent) in terms of bargaining chips on the "big table" and - lets be honest - we aren't a world power in the same league as the US, China, India, Russia etc etc which really we'd need to be to be fully independent - the EU does bring us a lot of those things.

Yes, there is a lot of BS put out about a loss of sovereignty and Brussels take over but we've been part of the EU since 1973 and I don't think my life is worse because of it.

So while folks may want rid of the "foreigners" (how out of date is that now given modern technology and the breaking of boundaries by the internet??) we may lose out and become an afterthought. For those reasons - unless someone comes up with a really compelling argument against that isn't based on an irrational fear of people who speak a different language, I'm likely be voting to stay in.

We won't be allowed to leave.
The BBC is the main broadcaster and they're firmly in the remain camp as are the leaders of the three biggest parties in the UK.

Postal voting fraud will ensure the remain vote is higher.

It's quite depressing really, none of the tv news bods have had the courage to challenge the weaknesses in Cameron's EU deal. None of them challenge the lies of the remain side.

Jobs they say the EU is good for jobs.
Tell that to British fishermen, steel workers etc.
Money, massive migration keeps wages depressed at the bottom and costs billions extra in benefits.
Security No one is going to war with us as long as we have strong armed forces, Commonwealth friends and a long time ally in the US. Oh, and Trident.

Democracy is dead here.

Watching this definitely made me think twice. I know most people hate Galloway, but at least he is making a powerful argument that represents the left, which no one else is doing. and a powerful speech too

I vote out, though I don't know if it will make a difference since the bigger plan of being part of a United States of Europe seems to be the end goal for the corporate elites. The NWO seems to be marching on regardless of what we do to stop it, all be it in very small and subtle steps.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

I don't have much time for a lot of what George stands for, but there's no denying his power as an orator.
He could sell sand to Arabs.

My mum is an old school red and she adores him.

I'm almost certain the result will be exactly the same as the Indyref thing...fairly close but a vote to maintain the status quo.

When the presidents of the US and China express their wish that Britain remain a member, you know that the opinion of the people will count for nothing.

I'll just say this.

A vote to stay in equals a vote for national suicide, Britain will lose it's sovereignty as an independent nation and become relegated to a mere sector of the EU. It might not happen next year, or the next 10 years. But it is definitely on the cards because the EU is committed to political union.

It will also, inevitably, mean that we will lose the pound and adopt the Euro. Again, it wont happen straight away. You have to think in the long term.

And, as the current EU objective seems to be to adopt the entire population of the Middle East, it will alter the British demographic beyond all recognition.

We will probably only have one chance to vote.

In June I shall be voting to exit this useless, globalist club.

But I doubt it will happen. I'm depressed about the future.

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
Not convinced by either side, but the subject needs putting to bed asap.

I'm the same and can see decent points on both sides but ultimately I'm not hugely bothered.
I think we can run our own affairs and can be a fully sovereign nation but would also be happy to be a part of the EU.

I'm just not that fussed really.

a reply to: blupblup
To be honest blup. I don't know anyone who's that fussed, most people I know don't even care. I don't know what that says about the people I know, no strong opinions either side.

a reply to: SprocketUK I've always been a fan since his talk sport days.

Just think it's not good to have one political side be seen as the dominant voice, good to have a bit of cross party consensus. It's not a left/ Right issue and the media would be wise to remember that. People shouldn't feel alienated from the debate.

Personally I think the principle that the British people have the right to vote for who governs them - the bloated and corrupt Central government in Brussels or the amoral, outdated government in Westminster - is actually more important than the actual outcome.

I hope the debate is conducted in an open and honest manner free from the biased spin, from both sides, which will be pushing their own agenda's rather than the genuine best interests of the 'ordinary' British people.

At the moment I'd say I'm more inclined to vote for an exit from the EU but that's by no means set in stone and will be studying closely the arguments made by both sides before making my own mind up.

Whilst immigration etc is an obvious concern its by no means my primary one.
I have no problem with being part of a Free Trade association and even having a joint defence and foreign policy etc but I feel giving more power to the heavily centralised entity that is the EU in its present guise can often be detrimental to the wishes and best interests of the UK and its constituent regions.

Regardless of the outcome I think it will be imperative that we respect the outcome, resist the temptation for recriminations, and commit fully to whatever decision the people make - if 'we' vote to stay in the EU we must stride to take a full and leading role in it and try to change it into something we can all be proud of.

originally posted by: Freeborn


I hope the debate is conducted in an open and honest manner free from the biased spin, from both sides, which will be pushing their own agenda's rather than the genuine best interests of the 'ordinary' British people.

Well I wouldn't hold your breath mate.... sadly I doubt that'll happen.

a reply to: Freeborn


Also I was watching something earlier on TV (well I say watching, I had it on while reading so may have got the details wrong) and they said that it would take 2 years for us to actually exit the EU and that our exit would have to be approved by the EU council (or similar body) and that they may reject our application to leave.


That can't be accurate can it? If so then... wow...seems crazy.

Apart from the MEPs the 'leaders' of the EU are un-elected and do not answer to the general populas.

If the EU was a company it would have been closed decades ago as they have not been able to balance their books so goodness knows where all that money has gone.

If we exit the EU and I will be voting that way, the money saved could be put towards any subsides that might be lost.

I doubt trade will be effected other than we could buy produce from anywhere we wanted, we would still buy from Europe and they would still buy from us.

Our farmers could produce what we needed rather than be paid to keep fields fallow.

Our fishermen would be able to fish our own waters and 'foreigners' would be kept out.

We wouldn't have to contribute to butter and wheat mountains or wine lakes. I have never understood why we need to produce anything that is not needed. In the past these excesses in stock have been sold off cheap to a non European country, utter madness.

What percentage of UK nationals live and work in other European countries, probably quite small and I doubt they would be forced to return.

As for free movement, does it really make sense to allow hundreds of thousands of 'foreigners' to come into this country, provide housing, medical and benefits when we have so many homeless and unemployed ourselves.

Again, I will be voting OUT

a reply to: woodwardjnr

To be honest blup. I don't know anyone who's that fussed, most people I know don't even care. I don't know what that says about the people I know, no strong opinions either side.

That surprises me mate - most people I know have very strong opinions.
I'd say at present most are very much anti-EU.

Either way, they all seem pretty much set in their opinion and appear to have made their minds up already.

I feel quite saddened, but sadly not surprised, that their minds seem closed to other opinions even prior to the real debate beginning - and what does that say about the people I know?

It seems the apathetic and close minded are in the majority - another damning indictment of this country and its people?

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

I believe we will leave the EU and the result could be higher for exit than some think.
There is discontent among the British public over years of failure and nonsense regulation from the EU and I believe many people who haven't voted in years will come out for this vote that actually stands to change something.

The European Union is a German Franco centered organization with rules tailored for their benefit , we should get out now before the whole house of cards collapses , which it will.

a reply to: blupblup

Well I wouldn't hold your breath mate.... sadly I doubt that'll happen.

Me too mate.

I think the campaign will be the most heavily engineered and doctored by corporate interests we have ever seen in this country.
And populist topics will dominate the debate and much of the real important nitty gritty details will be overlooked, ignored and trivialised.

..... and they said that it would take 2 years for us to actually exit the EU....

I imagine any exit would have to be carefully managed and stick to an agreed timeline.
2 years would seem about right.

..... and that our exit would have to be approved by the EU council (or similar body) and that they may reject our application to leave.

Which would contravene the UN Charter and its stated Right to Self-Determination.

If such a scenario should ever occur then the only outcome I could imagine would be major confrontation.....