UK Referendum 23 June 2016 - Will it be an EU BREXIT or Not?

At what cost although not legally binding? Lets take a peek then we can cheat!


MPs could resolve Brexit deadlock with non-binding free votes, says senior Tory

www.msn.com...

Avoiding the inevitable wishing for a miracle! I will give her one. She is right about no 2nd referendum and the damage to our democracy which would become a clear connocracy!

May: MPs to vote on Brexit deal on third week of January

www.msn.com...

Theresa May is now 'confident' she can WIN Brexit vote because she believes No Deal fears have terrified MPs

www.msn.com... Roegz?li=BBoPWjQ

Shouldn't it be, the sooner the people get their democratic wish and a full BREXIT!


Brexit news latest: Theresa May calls for Brits to 'focus on what really matters' amid deep divisions and fears of no-deal

uk.yahoo.com...

Desperate is, desperate does! Corby just wants to be PM before he croaks! He will need to be reincarnated to ever be so!

Brexit latest: Jeremy Corbyn urges Theresa May to cut Parliament Christmas recess short for crucial vote

www.msn.com... vY?li=BBoPWjQ

Here's another example of political bias and fear-mongering, this time by the Met Commissioner Cressida Dick. She basically said... "A no-deal Brexit could put the public at risk"
www.bbc.co.uk...

She is right in that assertion (if we don't get any sort of agreement on sharing security databases etc), but she fails to be impartial and doesn't mention the risk to the public if we stay in the EU.
For example...
- Anyone from Europe can come to our country, even if they are a criminal.
- Public backlash if the politicians ignore our vote and keep us in the EU.

Just these two things (imo) are more of a risk to public safety but she fails to mention either of them. I wonder why... maybe she was told to say that or she is a Remainer...

originally posted by: 83Liberty
Here's another example of political bias and fear-mongering, this time by the Met Commissioner Cressida Dick. She basically said... "A no-deal Brexit could put the public at risk"
www.bbc.co.uk...

She is right in that assertion (if we don't get any sort of agreement on sharing security databases etc), but she fails to be impartial and doesn't mention the risk to the public if we stay in the EU.
For example...
- Anyone from Europe can come to our country, even if they are a criminal.
- Public backlash if the politicians ignore our vote and keep us in the EU.

Just these two things (imo) are more of a risk to public safety but she fails to mention either of them. I wonder why... maybe she was told to say that or she is a Remainer...

Clear evidence of the system in play to effect a desired outcome! Like I have said previously the people are being fear conned! I guess when we ended up with a remainer PM we should have expected the situation we have now! A no deal BREXIT is very unlikely I would think now and I can see us signing up to a bad deal which is contrary to what the PM said at the beginning!

If there was another referendum it will likely have 3 options
1. Remain - which should be one of them because the people already voted on that one
2. Accept bad deal
3. BREXIT no deal

So if either a bad deal or remain the people have been robbed!

Its time a lot more should be made of what a no deal will mean to the EU

for it will not go unscathed ..... and it might give the faint hearted

ditherers in the UK some backbone and faith in the future of the country

Europeans will have to fork out billions more to fund the EU Budget if there is a No Deal Brexit and Britain does not pay £39billion divorce bill, the bloc's finance chief warns

Gunther Oettinger said all remaining member states will face extra big EU bills
The EU's Budget Commissioner said in Germany this could be 500,000 euros
Brexiteers have urged PM not to pay the £39bn divorce bill until trade deal done

A no deal Brexit could leave Europeans having to fork out billions more to plug the gaping hole in the EU's budget, the bloc's finance chief has warned.

Gunther Oettinger said the remaining 27 member states will face a hefty bill if the UK does not pay the £39billion divorce bill it has promised.

The money covers the UK's contribution to EU annual budgets up to the end of 2020 - when the Brexit transition period is due to end.

And it also covers ongoing costs Britain has agreed it owes, including a contribution to the pensions of EU workers and the cost of staying in some EU agencies.

It means that if Britain decides to tear up the divorce cheque then Brussels will suddenly face a big hole in its
finances.

Quizzed on the possible fall-out of a no deal Brexit, Mr Oettinger, EU Commissioner for the Budget, said it could mean Europeans having to pay more.

He told the German newspaper Westfälische Rundschau: 'It depends on whether, following a disorderly Brexit, the British would be prepared to fulfill their rights and obligations as contributors by the end of the financial year 2019.

'If this is not the case, next year a medium three-digit million amount will be added to Germany.'

His comments suggest that the EU 27 member states left in the bloc could have to pay billions more into the Budget.

Brexiteers including Boris Johnson have urged Theresa May to refuse to hand over all of the divorce bill until the EU agrees to a trade deal - warning that Britain risks throwing away its trump card in talks if it signs over the cash earlier.

Appearing on the BBC's Andrew Marr show earlier this month, Mr Johnson said: 'Unless they help us then there is a risk of no deal, and to incentivise them further we should say that we will delay the payment of at least half the 39 billion until they've done a free trade deal by the end of 2020.
'And that is the way to I think put a bit of a tiger in the tank and to get these talks moving.'

But Remainers have said that it would be impossible for Britain to walk away from its financial commitments.
Peter Kyle, a Labour MP and supporter of the anti Brexit group the People's Vote, said: 'Those who claim we can walk away and pay nothing are selling yet another Brexit fantasy.
'The bulk of the divorce bill represents unavoidable legal obligations. But however much we pay it will be money spent for nothing in return.'

The precise details of what the £39bn divorce bill will go on have not been spelt out by either the UK or the EU.

The Office for Budget Responsibility said that while most would be paid over the next five years, the UK will be paying some money into the EU budget until 2064.

If the UK decided to renege on its promise to pay the bill then Brussels would be left with a hole to fill.

While the EU could try to slash expenditure on future projects to rein in spending, it would probably ask for more cash from the remaining member states.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

**And it also covers ongoing costs Britain has agreed it owes, including a contribution to the pensions of EU workers and the cost of staying in some EU agencies.**

So why are they saying we will have no ability to share in the technology

we have already PAID FOR and will further be contributing to???

**Brexiteers including Boris Johnson have urged Theresa May to refuse to hand over all of the divorce bill until the EU agrees to a trade deal - warning that Britain risks throwing away its trump card in talks if it signs over the cash earlier.**

That appears reasonable?

**But Remainers have said that it would be impossible for Britain to walk away from its financial commitments.**

WHY NOT? The EU has negotiated NOTHING it has been rigid.

Europeans are in revolt against the political and moral order and it’s wonderful.

There have been ballot-box protests and street-based revolts but no attempts at actual revolutions. And yet our era also feels like a Spring of Nations. In Europe especially. There are now millions of people across Europe who want to re-establish the ideals of nationhood, of national sovereignty and popular democracy, against what we might view as the neo-monarchical structures of 21st-century technocracy. The sustained gilets jaunes revolts in France capture this well. Here we have an increasingly monarchical ruler – the aloof, self-styled Jupiterian presidency of Emmanuel Macron – being challenged week in, week out by people who want greater say and greater national independence. ‘Macron = Louis 16’, said graffiti in the gilets jaunes-ruled streets during one of their revolts. And we know what happened to him!!

Today, likewise, the gilets jaunes revolts have spread. In recent weeks yellow-vest protesters in Belgium have tried to storm the European Commission – an unprecedented event, which got strikingly little media coverage – while yellow vests in the Netherlands have called for a referendum on EU membership and in Italy they have gathered to express support for their Eurosceptic government. That election in Italy was a key event of 2018. Coming in March, it brought to power the League and the Five Star Movement, parties loathed by the EU establishment, and in the process it shattered the delusions that had gripped many European observers following the election of Macron last year – that Macron’s victory represented the fading-away of the populist moment. Italy disproved that, French revolters confirmed it, and local and national elections everywhere from Germany to Sweden added further weight to the fact that the populist revolt is not going away anytime soon.

When you’re in the thick of something, when you’re reading daily reports about the elite’s war on Brexit and seeing tweeted photos of Paris burning and watching as the EU declares political war on the elected government of Italy, it can be hard to appreciate the historic nature of what is going on. Or just the magnitude of it. We all get so bogged down in the ins and outs of the Brexit ‘negotiations’ (in truth there is no real negotiation, but rather mild disagreements between the UK and EU establishments over how Brexit might be most smoothly killed off. We pore over graphs showing the collapse in public support for the old mainstream parties, especially social-democratic ones. We express surprise at the corrosion of consensus politics even in Sweden, that traditionally most consensual of countries. But it can be hard to piece things together and create a bigger picture. We should try to, though, because then we might see that ours really is an era of revolt, of chaos even – but welcome, good, fruitful chaos.

,The instinct for revolt was built on ‘solid intellectual foundations’ and it expressed a ‘denial of the legitimacy of the social and political order’. We have something similar today. Yes, Macron’s fuel tax hit people’s pockets; yes, many Brexit voters are less well-off than the Remainer elites; yes, Eurosceptic Italian youths struggle to find work. But their revolts, whether at the ballot box or on the streets, are energised by more than ‘immediate deprivation’ – they are built upon a denial of the legitimacy of the existing political and cultural order.

Brexit captured this: a mass vote in defiance of the political and expert classes who insisted that Euro-technocracy was the only realistic way to organise a continent as large and complicated as Europe. We said no to that. We called into question the legitimacy of this political orthodoxy. France captures it, too. There we have the emergence of a new countercultural movement, though the culture being countered by the gilets jaunes is the culture of the new elites, of the post-1968 generation itself, in fact. The new culture of ideological multiculturalism, technocratic governance, anti-nation-state elitism, environmental diktats – that is what is being countered now, and consciously so, by French revolters. Some even carried placards calling for the creation of a Sixth Republic: an explicit confrontation of the highly centralised, parliament-weakening style of governance of the Fifth Republic, and of the EU too, of course

So we live, again, in ‘hungry decades’. People are hungering for change, for the alternative that we have been told for 40 years does not exist (‘There is no alternative’, in Thatcher’s infamous words). These hungry years, of which 2018 has been the hungriest yet, should be welcomed, and celebrated, and built upon. It is an open question as to who, if anyone, will shape and lead this hunger. The left cannot, for it has either thrown its lot in with the elitism of the decaying technocracy that sees our populist hunger as a new form of fascism, or it tries to reduce populism to an economic cry, which has the terrible effect of downplaying and even killing off its far more historic and revolting cultural nature. New voices are needed. This hungry revolt is really people searching for a voice; a political, moral voice. In 2019, voices will, we should hope, emerge from this neo-spring of nations.

themillenniumreport.com...


So its now up to Brexit to start the momentum .....

How an earth can or should it be 50-50, the people voted to LEAVE so it should be a No Deal BREXIT!!

The options should be BREXIT with (half brexit) or without a deal! That is the only democratic solution. Failing to deliver either is treacherous and democracy damaging!


Brexit is 50-50 if MPs reject May's deal - Fox

www.msn.com...

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
How an earth can or should it be 50-50, the people voted to LEAVE so it should be a No Deal BREXIT.The options should be BREXIT with (half brexit) or without a deal! That is the only democratic solution. Failing to deliver either is treacherous and democracy damaging!

There is so much wheeling and dealing going on that the comprehension of

what the people wanted and voted for has been completely lost in translation.


There was nothing on the ballot about a *deal*


The ballot read do you want to remain in the EU or do you want to *leave* the EU.

What part of *leave* do the turncoat remainers not understand?

Brexit is 50-50 if MPs reject May's deal - Fox

AGAIN The people didnt vote for a deal..... The British people voted

to LEAVE. ........NOW GET ON WITH IT.

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
How an earth can or should it be 50-50, the people voted to LEAVE so it should be a No Deal BREXIT.The options should be BREXIT with (half brexit) or without a deal! That is the only democratic solution. Failing to deliver either is treacherous and democracy damaging!

There is so much wheeling and dealing going on that the comprehension of

what the people wanted and voted for has been completely lost in translation.


There was nothing on the ballot about a *deal*


The ballot read do you want to remain in the EU or do you want to *leave* the EU.

What part of *leave* do the turncoat remainers not understand?

Brexit is 50-50 if MPs reject May's deal - Fox

AGAIN

The people didnt vote for a deal..... The British people voted

to LEAVE. ........NOW GET ON WITH IT.

I fully agree! The question posed to the people at the referendum was very clear and the democratic answer was LEAVE and therefore any other final outcome is an act of treason against the democratic state of the people!

Can you imagine what would have happened many years ago to those who perpetrated such treachery!

It is very dangerous and counter to the benefit of the people if the business/corporate agenda is allowed to either influence or change the political and democratic direction of a nation state!

The people voted to LEAVE and there should be no other outcome than that or......................................

A boost for all the doubters...... Welcome to 2019 Brexiters

HOW UK MAY SEE A SURPRISE STOCK MARKET BOOST IN 2019

Top fund recommendations for the year ahead
FTSE100 Index could be the stock market surprise of 2019, experts predict
One in three fund managers think the UK and the US could offer the best investment returns next year

A recent poll by the Association of Investment Companies indicated that the biggest proportion of fund managers - 27 per cent - thought the UK and the US could offer the best investment returns in 2019.

In the UK, a positive outcome on Brexit could result in a revaluation of the stock market, triggering a surge in equity prices. Dixon says: 'I believe the FTSE100 Index could be the big pleasant stock market surprise of 2019. The UK equity market has underperformed other stock markets since 2015 and now offers attractive relative value.

'If there is clarity on Brexit and even a modest amount of domestic economic growth, these will provide catalysts for the UK stock market to close the valuation gap with other stock markets.'

Mark Boucher and Mark Swain are comanagers on the Smith & Williamson Enterprise Fund. They feel that the shares of many domestically focused companies in the UK are standing at a 30 per cent discount to global equities. If a Brexit deal is struck, they argue such companies' share prices could benefit from a 'Brexit bounce', resulting in the discount being eliminated.

Boucher adds: 'Many domestic UK businesses are still trading well and versus global peers are the cheapest they have been for nearly three decades.' Simon Gergel, manager of UK investment trust Merchants is similarly buoyant, provided the Brexit 'fog' lifts.
He says: 'An end to Brexit uncertainty could release pent-up demand in the economy and herald a return of foreign buying of UK equities, and a revaluation of the stock market from depressed levels.' Investment house JPMORGAN is among those asset managers to back the US stock market. It believes the earnings resilience of many US companies will support a strong stock market in 2019.

Many experts believe dividend friendly UK businesses are good homes for investors who are happy to wait for the stock market to bounce back.

Hunter says: 'The average dividend yield of the FTSE100 Index is 4.4 per cent which is a clear invitation to income seeking investors.' He particularly likes some of the more 'defensive' FTSE100 stocks - British American Tobacco on an attractive yield of 7.5 per cent, Diageo (2.3 per cent) and Unilever (3 per cent).

www.thisismoney.co.uk...


Here's a toast to a clean Brexit and a prosperous 2019.


On a foot note its time Theresa May got rid of the grey remainer, Phillip Hammond

who has been a burden on Brexit. On the news today "he has held onto money that

was meant to be used in the event of a clean no deal brexit"


We are nearly out and he has not as yet released ANYTHING Get rid of that man!!

The light is beginning to shine on Theresa May's duplicity..... The shameless

abuse of patronage in the appointing of an Eurosceptic MP to the Privy Council

after he backed her Brexit deal. Sir Edward Leigh a former Tory chairman of

the Commons public accounts committee was a previous outspoken critic of

the PM's proposals.

But he revealed his 'support' for her plan before X'mas when she faced a vote

of no confidence from other Tory MP's.

AND FOR THAT......

It emerged on Friday that Sir Edward was being made a Privy Counsellor.

Former health minister Phillip Dunne, and Sir Roger Gale head of the UK

delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the council of Europe have also

been appointed to the body of advisors to the Queen. Both plan to support

TM's deal when it is voted on in January.

Using the cover of the Christmas recess to appoint MP's to the Privy Council

is a shameless abuse of power.

Then there is the 'party' Theresa May is throwing for the MP's and their

partners over the holidays where and there is no doubt (because it has

been fielded before) that Honours and Peerages will be discussed and used to

grease palms and get the result she wants

That is obviously the reason she left the vote for a month so that she could

soften up any opposition to *her deal* ...

It makes me sick to the stomach that people with no scruples who put their

own ambitions before their country and the people who voted them in are in

the position and have the power to be so dishonourable. And because of the

dirty deals being done behind closed doors, they will be safe from getting voted

out at the next election.


The saying *There is no honour among thieves* should apply equally to politicans

originally posted by: eletheia


The light is beginning to shine on Theresa May's duplicity..... The shameless

abuse of patronage in the appointing of an Eurosceptic MP to the Privy Council

after he backed her Brexit deal. Sir Edward Leigh a former Tory chairman of

the Commons public accounts committee was a previous outspoken critic of

the PM's proposals.

But he revealed his 'support' for her plan before X'mas when she faced a vote

of no confidence from other Tory MP's.

AND FOR THAT......

It emerged on Friday that Sir Edward was being made a Privy Counsellor.

Former health minister Phillip Dunne, and Sir Roger Gale head of the UK

delegation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the council of Europe have also

been appointed to the body of advisors to the Queen. Both plan to support

TM's deal when it is voted on in January.

Using the cover of the Christmas recess to appoint MP's to the Privy Council

is a shameless abuse of power.

Then there is the 'party' Theresa May is throwing for the MP's and their

partners over the holidays where and there is no doubt (because it has

been fielded before) that Honours and Peerages will be discussed and used to

grease palms and get the result she wants

That is obviously the reason she left the vote for a month so that she could

soften up any opposition to *her deal* ...

It makes me sick to the stomach that people with no scruples who put their

own ambitions before their country and the people who voted them in are in

the position and have the power to be so dishonourable. And because of the

dirty deals being done behind closed doors, they will be safe from getting voted

out at the next election.

The saying *There is no honour among thieves* should apply equally to politicans

Bingo!! The electorate and the people of the UK clearly reside in a self serving Connocracy which has little honour or integrity nor any respect for the people. Blatant and treacherous abuse of power!

So we now have the inner workings of the self serving and corrupt political elite and their cohorts (pleading with MP's) actually working actively behind the scenes to fashion a majority vote for the Half BREXIT deal what is in effect both a bad deal and a FAKEXIT so has to deprive the British people of their hard fort democracy and democratic wish to LEAVE the EU!

If TM pulls it off then you can kiss goodbye to the long term benefits of a proper BREXIT! And mark my words, if we pay the EU before any trade deal then what we end up with will be far worse than we have now and the BACkSTOP will comeback to haunt us and N.Ireland!


Theresa May pleads with MPs to back Brexit deal and let Britain 'turn corner' in new year

www.msn.com...

a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Andrea Leadsom is now calling for MPs to back May's deal , Brexit is dead subservience is our future.

We were told the divorce bill would cost us more than £100billion, but we have agreed to pay less than half of that, between £35billion and £39billion, much of which is to secure an implementation period – something UK businesses and citizens wanted.

The EU’s proposal for a backstop would have split the UK’s customs territory, threatening our United Kingdom – but the deal has maintained the integrity of our four nations.

I hope we can all come together in the national interest to back this deal. The country wants us to get on with it, and I look forward to voting to do just that.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

Bottled it

originally posted by: gortex


Bottled it

I am so afraid you are correct.

Andrea Leadsome (recent promotion) has been bought off too.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: RP2SticksOfDynamite

Andrea Leadsom is now calling for MPs to back May's deal , Brexit is dead subservience is our future.

We were told the divorce bill would cost us more than £100billion, but we have agreed to pay less than half of that, between £35billion and £39billion, much of which is to secure an implementation period – something UK businesses and citizens wanted.

The EU’s proposal for a backstop would have split the UK’s customs territory, threatening our United Kingdom – but the deal has maintained the integrity of our four nations.

I hope we can all come together in the national interest to back this deal. The country wants us to get on with it, and I look forward to voting to do just that.
www.dailymail.co.uk...

Bottled it

I am afraid you are more than likely correct and AL has turned out to be just like the rest of them! No integrity nor any respect for democracy or the peoples will.

We now wait to see if there is still some fight in the awoken Lion!

The British people have won many times throughout history only to have their wish and victories stolen from them. I guess we should by now have learnt to expect it! The people can never win under a system such as we have in the UK and change for the better will only come when the system is changed!

A referendum is only of value if the outcome is honoured. The question is now, will our future elections be impacted because the people no longer have confidence in them. I would expect the next general will have a low turn out! I and mine will not be voting because one's vote actually no longer counts for much anymore.

The home of democracy has become the home connocracy, ridicule & subservience.

Many have died for the right to determine the wish of the people. What a waste and a disgrace this has been forgotten!