Scalia Death Suspicious "We discovered the judge in bed, a pillow over his head."

It may not even make a difference who declined autopsy first, and why no one is detesting it. Maybe a family member and an outsider were in it together.

Who wants to play CLUE?
"Justice Scalia in the boudoir with a pillow"

a reply to: MotherMayEye

And no one who is suspicious will ever have an answer because there will be no autopsy nor investigation.

And most of those would not pay the slightest bit of attention to the results of an autopsy or investigation.

See my point now?

At the minimum they should have done a tox screen.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Indigo5

World first everybody.

Myself and neo96 agree on something!

What is accurate to suggest, is that the probability is rather higher than people might assume, that one or another agency of government might have wanted him offed for one reason or another,

It is a higher probability than the average joe due to his position and influence on national policy and law. ..for sure...but it is still a very tiny probability.

and that the possibility ought to be investigated

Agreed...and that can start by testing hypothesis with what we know or don't know..

Shouting down people questioning hypothesis with logic, facts or evidence is the opposite of investigation.

And "investigation" is certainly not contending that since the Tuskegee experiments happened or MK Ultra...then Scalia must have been murdered.

Neo suggested that since Scalia bedclothes were unwrinkled, it must have been murder..

I suggested just the opposite, if there was a struggle...then the bedclothes would be wrinkled...if the killers straightened out his clothes, then why leave the pillow on his head?

For that I got the bit about MK Ultra and Tuskegee experiments! And how I must think the gov is incapable of murder etc.

So...No that kind of troll debate is not investigation IMO.

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

Clearly that detail was intended to be released publicly. Otherwise, Poindexter would never have included it. I think it sends the 'right' message to every person in a powerful position: "Next time, it could be you."

So, what's the message? The next guy who sits on the Supreme Court for thirty years making decisions they don't like might get knocked off by the CIA when he's finally 79 years old?

Uh, no. I don't think the message is that specific, at all.

You missed the point. The government has supposedly been masterfully killing people for years and years but they wait thirty years to knock off Scalia?

I am not privy to any reasoning behind an assassination IF it was an assassination. Neither are you.

Of course there could be reasons now that weren't relevant 30, 20, 10 years ago.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: MotherMayEye

And no one who is suspicious will ever have an answer because there will be no autopsy nor investigation.

And most of those would not pay the slightest bit of attention to the results of an autopsy or investigation.

See my point now?

Well, not now. But if an autopsy and investigation had happened immediately, most people would have accepted the findings and moved on. The flames were fanned. I think that was intentional and very much foreseeable.

originally posted by: IAMTAT

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: IAMTAT
. . . with a pillow covering his face . . .

Did someone actually state a pillow was "covering" his face?

Is that the same as a pillow "over" his head?

I suppose it depends on what your definition of IS is.

My definition of FACT is "actual words used".

a reply to: TrueBrit

What is accurate to suggest, is that the probability is rather higher than people might assume, that one or another agency of government might have wanted him offed for one reason or another,

We do. I guess hell haf done frozen over.

There is a high probability that one may have.

Especially after the last Scotus Ruling that shot down the 'green energy plan'.

Might have been the EPA.

The funny part here is conspiracy theories is what we do on ATS. I don't think some people are on the right website.

And an autopsy would take care of most CTS.

a reply to: neo96

Can an autopsy be done after embalming?

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Indigo5

If you say so.

I know every time I go to bed. I wake up, and never have to make by bed.

Because it's still 'perfect' after I get out of it.

Let me pretend you are actually trying to discuss facts...

We can see if you opt to do so or revert to troll..

He was found in an unusually ordered condition...bed clothes etc. as if he had just laid down?

I picture a perfectly made hotel bed and him full on PJs..matching top and pants...old school in keeping with his age and disposition.

He dies within minutes of laying down.

He retired to his room around 9:30 Pm explaining it had been a long week.

His doctor has been clear that he suffered from multiple chronic health issues and inferred there was something in particular recently.

Scalia’s physician in Washington, who said that the 79-year-old justice suffered from a host of chronic conditions.

“He was having health issues,’’ Guevara said, adding that she is awaiting a statement from Scalia’s doctor that will be added to his death certificate

To me that speaks to medication...and likely the type of medication that knocks you out...sleep meds or pain killers or combinations there-of.

He could have taken to many or a poor combination...that would account for him going to down quickly when he lay down and no tossing or turning...

that could also account for the family not wanting an autopsy..not wanting overdose to be the last word of his biography.

they also could have been aware that he was struggling with an addiction to pain-killers or sleep medications or both...stemming from prescribed medications for his "host of chronic health issues"..

Am I sure? No...but it seems much more likely than assassins killing him in some exotic way...and no hypothesis as to how that happened holds up with what we know thus far.

If you have a hypothesis of how he might have been killed, please feel free to share.

a reply to: Indigo5

Well with regard to the Tuskegee experiment angle and the rest, of course those things are just scene setting, to remind us all of the kind of organisation which might have been involved, and how immoral it has been before. To a degree, I can see why he mentioned it, and I can also see why you do not get his approach angle, why it sits wrong with you.

But indigo5, sometimes you have to take into account the way another poster tends to formulate response, in order to cut through the guff to the punchline they were getting at. Lord knows people have to do it with me often enough! neo96 had a point, but it was buried in justification, other examples, and so on.

There is additional circumstantial evidence indicating a possible conspiracy, beyond the pillow:
1.) Hillary no-longer looks like a 'sure thing' to succeed Obama...Obama desperate to see a Democrat appoint the next Justice
2.) Scalia blocks Obama in the Court
3.) The hotel owner (a democrat donor) invites conservative Scalia to a 'private' vacation
4.) Supreme Court Justices receive U.S. Marshall and Supreme Court Police protection EXCEPT when on vacation
5.) Scene of death not secured
6.) Cause of death initially called over the phone
7.) No autopsy ordered

...I'm sure there are others...

a reply to: Indigo5

So lemme get this straight.

Imma a 'troll' because I refuse to take the 'word' of government over a sitting supreme courts justice's death.

Hell I will wear that INSULT like a badge of honor.

I think the camp finding themselves suspicious that an autopsy was not performed is forgetting some very important things. Scalia was a human being with a family. His family did not want his body chopped up. Scalia was known to suffer from a host of conditions one or more of which could easily have triggered his demise. [1] The talk here is all very hypothetical and distant. I wonder how many of you have been closely involved with a death. As chronic conditions accumulate and symptoms worsen, the question of precisely which health issue kills a person is much like the straw that breaks the camel's back. The detail of it is only important in a very academic context. In the United States when people with a terminal diagnosis enter Hospice, all diagnosis ceases. It is very common that the cause of a death from a technical standpoint is related to the core illness but is not in a literal sense the core illness. For example, highly metastatic cancer not uncommonly kills people through stroke. When the cancer compromises the cardiovascular system and makes it into the brain, brain bleeds become drastically more likely. In the United States it is common not to look too hard at these details when a preponderance of evidence tells us a person is shortly to leave our plane. It's not particularly helpful or comforting to know that someone you love died of a stroke as a byproduct of cancer. When you're that ill, you're essentially stacking up risk factors exponentially as the days go on. Your body becomes more and more brittle and eventually something pushes you over the cliff. It is what it is.

1. www.washingtonpost.com... pm_politics_pop_b

originally posted by: 123143
At the minimum they should have done a tox screen.

Probably because the family didn't want it to be revealed the level of alcohol in his blood. It was a hunting party and he never went hunting.

a reply to: IAMTAT

It’s called probable cause...

Haven’t you watched Colombo?


There's no probable cause to warrant a murder investigation

originally posted by: [post=20377550]neo96

The funny part here is conspiracy theories is what we do on ATS. I don't think some people are on the right website.

No...Questioning Everything is what we do here on ATS...and that goes for mainstream stories and conspiracy things alike.

If you don't want your claims to be questioned , then perhaps write Op-eds for Fox news...

If it's on ATS...Conspiracy Theory or Mainstream News Story....People should challenge the claim with facts, logic and evidence..

I don't understand those who think since this is a conspiracy site ...challenging questions or facts do not have a place?

DENY IGNORANCE

a reply to: dianajune

Certain procedures can be enacted on the body to test for certain toxins (although designer assassination mixes tend to break down and disappear really damned fast, when compared with things like arsenic, lead, and other poisons) and there are limited experiments and investigations which can be performed on the muscle, skin, and so on.

But the process of embalming, by its very nature, destroys a significant amount of the potential for evidence collection. A medical examiner or forensic anthropologist has to really work to learn something from an embalmed body.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
Over his head doesn't mean over his face. If he laid down so he was lower down on the mattress, the pillow is over his head, without having anything to do with something nefarious.

I was thinking this same thing. They said over his head not over his face right? And if you're suffocated you usually fight that so you wouldn't be unwrinkled.

a reply to: Indigo5

Funny says the people who bought the official mainstream line without any question what so ever.

Scalia died of a heart attack move right along nothing to see there.