Why You Can't Argue With a Liberal 2.0

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

All you've done is spout the same vitriol about "religion" that all right wingers do.

Climate Change is scientific fact. Proven.
There is no deity involved. There is no ritual.
There is no dogma.


It boils down to listening to the facts, or sticking your fingers in your ears.



As you'd rather gas on about the heaven of capitalism, I'll depart...
We have enough rah rah rah threads about the economy...

& no concept is faultless.

You believe otherwise about Capitalism.
Despite the facts of cronyism slapping the middle and working class in the face everyday.


Cranial already mentioned the Kool aid, I hope it tastes nice.

The Liberal responses so far are proving the point perfectly.

Tangents galore.

Mis-directions a-plenty.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

If you'll carefully reread my post I stated that capitalism was the economic system that lead us to this point. Am I mistaken? Did we switch economic systems somewhere in the 60s and I wasn't aware?

Did you think I said. "Capitalism is 100% to blame for all our countries problems?"

Based on your reply you must have thought I said something to that effect.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

All you've done is spout the same vitriol about "religion" that all right wingers do.

Climate Change is scientific fact. Proven.
There is no deity involved. There is no ritual.
There is no dogma.


It boils down to listening to the facts, or sticking your fingers in your ears.



As you'd rather gas on about the heaven of capitalism, I'll depart...
We have enough rah rah rah threads about the economy...

& no concept is faultless.

You believe otherwise about Capitalism.
Despite the facts of cronyism slapping the middle and working class in the face everyday.


Cranial already mentioned the Kool aid, I hope it tastes nice.

Read my posts and you can find out where I stand. I'm no religious zealot. I reflect the more modern conservative (in my opinion), who I believe trends more libertarian (freedom of person, freedom of business, etc.).

Someone posted on here once about arguing with anyone with a right wing leaning, and I thought they were spot on.

They posted:

Arguing with the right is like trying to play chess with a pigeon. No matter what moves you make, the pigeon will strut about the board, scattering all the pieces, yet still claim they won.

Living within a system that is more inclined to benefit you if you are corrupt or been born into a privileged lifestyle; you will live a mediocre life at best in the main. Of course there are exceptions, but that is only a small percentage.

Capitalism was great for a while. The likes of Henry Ford, employed his customers effectively. He ensured his products were affordable and good quality, a product his staff would buy from the money they made in his factories.

Nowadays the largest part of manufacturing within the U.S is produced by prison inmates. And the only growing industry is the Banking industry, the ones who created the last worldwide recession. They stole from us, right in front of us and the capitalists still want to continue the cycle of making the 1% richer and the divide within society even larger.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

Understand that conservatism, capitalism, and liberty are all founded in empirical evidence that has proven, time and time again, that when a people are free and you do not tax them to death, they will thrive and succeed. Limitless examples throughout history show this, not to mention terrabytes of economic data will support this as well.

I'd love to see even one byte of the info, even better terabytes if you have them...

Anyways, you could say the same thing about the conservative viewpoint. It's all religion.
Man = Religion

Choose team A or choose team B or choose not to support any team and in one of these choices you will find yourself, believing it.


My team believes in an egalitarian perspective. What is so wrong with that direction? -its not like any one direction is flawless or absolutely great, but I think this position is somehow better overall.

Whoops there I go, rooting for "my team" again. Can't escape the reality. Even if you "don't care, don't play along", you're still on "that" team.

originally posted by: xuenchen
The Liberal responses so far are proving the point perfectly.

Tangents galore.

Mis-directions a-plenty.

I know. It is enlightening. Read my post, then read the responses, and tell me honestly it is not dead on. I obviously expected the responses I am getting, it was foreshadowed in the post.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

If you'll carefully reread my post I stated that capitalism was the economic system that lead us to this point. Am I mistaken? Did we switch economic systems somewhere in the 60s and I wasn't aware?

Did you think I said. "Capitalism is 100% to blame for all our countries problems?"

Based on your reply you must have thought I said something to that effect.

Whose to say the liberal policies constraining the free market are not to blame?

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I know where you stand.

It was only two days ago that I had to explain to you that you're a classical liberal, not a conservative.


You insist on lumping yourself into a bracket you don't fit into.


Capitalist & conservative are not synonymous.

originally posted by: EmmanuelGoldstein

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

Understand that conservatism, capitalism, and liberty are all founded in empirical evidence that has proven, time and time again, that when a people are free and you do not tax them to death, they will thrive and succeed. Limitless examples throughout history show this, not to mention terrabytes of economic data will support this as well.

I'd love to see even one byte of the info, even better terabytes if you have them...

Anyways, you could say the same thing about the conservative viewpoint. It's all religion.
Man = Religion

Choose team A or choose team B or choose not to support any team and in one of these choices you will find yourself, believing it.


My team believes in an egalitarian perspective. What is so wrong with that direction? -its not like any one direction is flawless or absolutely great, but I think this position is somehow better overall.

Whoops there I go, rooting for "my team" again. Can't escape the reality. Even if you "don't care, don't play along", you're still on "that" team.

Small federal government, not religion.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Haha, the self-congratulatory back-slapping is hilarious. "My post says that liberals are stupid and won't listen to the obviously highly-logical and correct conservative viewpoint, and now the liberals are arguing with me and taking umbridge at my point, thus proving my point!" I'm glad you take such pride in circular reasoning.

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Who's to say? I don't know do you say that? Or is it just when any problem exists it's the fault of the policies that you don't like that are to blame and the ones you do like are the only things saving us from anarchy? You claim to base your points in fact? Who's to say.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

I know where you stand.

It was only two days ago that I had to explain to you that you're a classical liberal, not a conservative.


You insist on lumping yourself into a bracket you don't fit into.


Capitalist & conservative are not synonymous.

As I've said a million times, and even in response to your post, which you clearly ignored, I am lumping all sects together for purposes of the debate as liberal v conservative. I also believe the modern conservative (republican for the sake of the presidential debate) trends more libertarian as in freedom of person and freedom of business, small federal government, etc.

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

Who's to say? I don't know do you say that? Or is it just when any problem exists it's the fault of the policies that you don't like that are to blame and the ones you do like are the only things saving us from anarchy? You claim to base your points in fact? Who's to say.

I'm just drawing your attention to a counterpoint. I'm happy to read any empirical evidence for your original claim.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: corvuscorrax


If the BEST economic system, hands down, period, is the one that lead this country to where we are than we truly are doomed.

Unless the based in reality part just accepts that humans are terrible creatures who can't do much of anything right and never will.

Not sure how you can say capitalism in and of itself is the sole source for all of our problems.

But he did not say capitalism is the sole source for all our problems, just that it is the economic system that has lead to where we are now. Do you see how you conflated that statement into something else?

The governing religion of capitalism is the belief in the 'Hidden Hand' a quasi spiritual belief that there is somehow built into human nature a guidance system so perfect that if left alone, free of human manipulation, it will guide us into the best of possible worlds. This I think could not be farther from the truth.

The truth is that among us humans there are those who would exploit as many people as possible. Capitalism not only does not in it's hidden hand do anything to quell this tendency but serves as the agency, the vehicle for those exploiters to do so with near impunity, and all under the rubric of "It's capitalism, our best and only hope'

originally posted by: corvuscorrax
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

If you'll carefully reread my post I stated that capitalism was the economic system that lead us to this point. Am I mistaken? Did we switch economic systems somewhere in the 60s and I wasn't aware?

Did you think I said. "Capitalism is 100% to blame for all our countries problems?"

Based on your reply you must have thought I said something to that effect.

Yeah, I caught that also.

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: ExNihiloRed


So as you mention in your OP about extremists on both sides - why not just title your OP "why you can't argue with extremists"
Like conservatives and right-wingers are a bastion of reason and sanity and don't even exaggerate, get emotional, make stuff up, deflect and troll and totally ignore any points made.

No it's a liberal thing only.

This is my point - It's just divisive crap and it is a pointless debate to be having.
Do you think after we go round and round for 20 replies we'll somehow totally see each others point of view or convert or change our ideologies?

I am fully aware of many issues on both sides of the political spectrum and believe there is a lot of common ground and many issues on both sides are valid and believe there is cause for concern on several big issues right now.
But your title makes me not want to have the debate - it's just worded very poorly and I'm sure you'll get the fight and fun you're looking for in the thread.

Good luck

It is a rant forum, right?

It is indeed a rant forum, but when you say this:

And think to yourself, isn't arguing with a liberal just like arguing with a religious zealot?

Then get hit with this and this.
The irony of your first statement should hit you like a hammer in the face. No?

a reply to: ExNihiloRed

The evidence was there the WHOLE time. Free enterprise, sometimes called capitalism, is rooted in America all the way back to the Revolution.

You stated capitalism is the BEST economic system. I said that seems unlikely given the position we're in, unless the position we're in is the BEST we can hope for.

You then said I blamed capitalism for all of our countries problems. Hyperbole or just an issue with reading comprehension there not sure.

I pointed this out and then you said well who's to say that capitalism isn't the best and all the problems are from liberal policy? I then pointed out the absurdity of such an argument. If you think that implying that the economy has NOTHING to due with the struggles we're in as a country is a good argument, then I suggest you and those who agree with you just make a thread where you can high five all day.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
Someone posted on here once about arguing with anyone with a right wing leaning, and I thought they were spot on.

They posted:



Nowadays the largest part of manufacturing within the U.S is produced by prison inmates. And the only growing industry is the Banking industry, the ones who created the last worldwide recession. They stole from us, right in front of us and the capitalists still want to continue the cycle of making the 1% richer and the divide within society even larger.

Citation needed.

originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: ExNihiloRed

originally posted by: ExNihiloRed


It is a rant forum, right?

It is indeed.... am I not ranting??

Ok, fair point.