How do you feel about your DL having an RFID chip in it tracking your every move???

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: snowspirit

As far as I know its individual inventors / manufactuers who offer these. Not the government. Unless uncle Sam has a sideline making wallets.

You request an EDL drivers license, you generally get a sleeve to keep it in from the state that issues your license.

Or there are a huge number of retailers that will gladly sell you one.

a reply to: Mandroid7

Sorry Charley there are no chips in cash. The strip IS an anti-counterfeit device. I can see how a conspiracy like that could spring from that.

a reply to: Bedlam

Oh wow I didn't know that.Of course my borderlines are Maryland , Delaware, West Virginia, Kentucky and Tennessee and we tend to keep those lines open. For the time being of course.
You sure know a lot about these things.

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Maybe you can explain why anyone cares? Who cares if they're tracking you? I'm a regular joe-schmoe with nothing to hide...so why would I care if they watch me?

A2D

I personally don't care either, was just answering a comment by bedlam. I don't thing they are "watching" TBQH, more storing the data in case they need to find out where someone has been, after a crime has been committed or such like. Much like the CCTV data stored from all cameras across all of our cities.

Cya

originally posted by: Bedlam

originally posted by: corblimeyguvnor

Cars can't be tracked that much? not where you live perhaps but here in the UK it's a different story. ANPR on every On/Off ramp of the motorway network, them little grey boxes at the side of the road every 500 or so yards with Laser Radiation warning labels all over them ...... tracked? not much

You wouldn't use "laser radiation" to interrogate an RFID. RFID isn't a tag reader. You can't conflate them.

I wasn't talking about RFID, just the various methods they employ to have tracking data

I don't doubt our intelligence agencies can track us if they must. The mlitary always says its technology is ahead of the curve. The ingelligence agencies are the same way--IF it's national security. But I don't think I have anytihng to fear from my DL/etc. I fear what I don't know about.

But I do think in the future we'll be tracked more and we'll WANT to be tracked for safety. It'll be mostly in public places. My guess is it'll be a while before we WANT to be tracked in our privacy.

And that's what's so interesting to me. What chagne is needed in our psychology for us to accept being tracked EVERYWHERE?

A change in our psychology might be necessary. Why? My reasoning is advancing technology will make a single individual increasingly dangerous. Thus there's a need for monitoring and pre-emption. You don't want to wait until the bomb goes off before moving in. You want to stop it from ever occurring. This is more true everyday because there's growing populations in concentrated areas and more things which can be destroyed.

Will we evolve to live closer together or further apart?

Anothre thing which accompanies this is mental stabilisation. You don't want mentally unstable people wielding increasing powers. You can address the problem when they're young before you ever need to track them. It's possible if it's extremely successful they won't even need to track us. But I sincerely doubt it, since it implies nobody will do wrong. Instead of eliminating tracking, I think it will bolster it.

a reply to: Bedlam

Again, that's not "RFID tracking". It's data correlation. Totally different beast.

That's correct. I guess since the theme of this thread is RFID tracking, I should have made that connection.

That's why I didn't include phones in the list of things that don't track you.

KrazySh0t made a comment in another thread the other day about cell phones essentially being a way that the government could track your movements without the necessity of implanting each individual with a chip. In other words we're being conned into carrying our own "Big Brother" identifying device, and paying for the privilege.

When this is paired with data correlation from sources like credit cards, our electronic footprint is immense. We probably leak more personal information to those in power than we even know about ourselves.


-dex

a reply to: Sillyolme

Of course they keep a record of charges and purchases. How do we keep our checking account correct or know if someone is buying stuff on our credit cards otherwise?

That is quite true. My point is that data correlation from that activity can be combined with a variety of other sources to track not only our movements, but a vast array of other characteristics about us.

Those cars must be in the big cities because my city can't keep up with pot holes never mind purchasing high tech police cars.

I've heard a lot of different stories about these automated license plate scanners. A LEO member here on ATS said that his small city also didn't have those in their cars. But, I'd be willing to bet that State Police vehicles do have them. I haven't done any research on how prevalent they are. That might be a good research topic/thread to start.

No I don't live in Mayberry. I'm in a smaller city on the east coast near D.C.

I used to live and work in the DC area myself. The worst pothole I ever ran through was in Fairfax, VA. Lost the hubcap, flattened the tire, and bent the rim. I think that was the day when I set a personal best record for one continuous stream of obscenities delivered at a volume that could be heard on the other side of the highway.


The thing is that there are different funds that pay for the things we need, like pothole repair, and the things the government wants, like police state surveillance. A tiny little Homeland Security grant of $10 million dollars is a lot easier to get than a few hundred thousand dollars for potholes.

Data leaks other than location? It always feels like somebody's watching me.

Tell me about it. And even if it's not an actual person watching in realtime, all that data is being collected in a massive database somewhere. TPTB could basically reconstruct your entire life with a few keystrokes at a computer terminal.

-dex

a reply to: DexterRiley

I can't imagine the cost of something like that. Especially when most folks live a mundane life at best. Work / school, eat, have sex, sleep . Lather rinse repeat. Would be very boring .

a reply to: DexterRiley

Only a flat tire and ruined rim? We've lost eighteen wheelers in pot holes around here.
As for a hugh database archiving our lives well I'm just not buying it.

If you have a vehicle with OnStar you are tracked even if you don't buy the service. And thats a fact it started in GM and now most vehicles have it. Just an FYI

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: DexterRiley


As for a hugh database archiving our lives well I'm just not buying it.

32 Million Data Collection Points in San Diego alone...The Truth is coming out.

The data they collect is staggering. If you live in the US...They know tons about you.

Groceries, Medication, Bleach, Gas, everything you buy with your Debit/credit card.

If you are not doing anything wrong, please join in demanding they STOP.

a reply to: lavatrance

Well, Ive had one for 7 years. State Police, State Drivers License, Concealed weapons license....all with bar codes...and easy to track.

Got another last week from Homeland Security, Wayne County Michigan. Picture, med and emergency info, tracking, bar coded...

I got nothing to hide, and know they got us in other ways. So why care. So, I dont.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Only a flat tire and ruined rim? We've lost eighteen wheelers in pot holes around here.

Yeah, the entire road system in the DC Metro is in really crappy shape, and getting worse. I remember back in the 1980's sitting in traffic on the Wilson Bridge looking at the Potomac River through holes in the bridge. I seem to recall that at one point it go so bad that they actually lost a VW bug in one of those things.

As for a hugh database archiving our lives well I'm just not buying it.

It's not a database in the conventional sense. It's more of a distributed database where context specific databases, like the ones that credit card companies maintain, can be searched using unique identifying criteria. There's no need to keep a local copy of all of that data. Only a relatively small dataset would have to be stored locally that contains the unique identifying information necessary to construct a query to get more detailed information.

For instance, a query could be constructed using my SSN, and for the month of January get all of my credit card and bank transactions, all my movements and travel based on cell tower tracking records, my income based on IRS records, and the contents of my purchases based on store loyalty cards.

From the result of that query, they can build a profile about me that describes me better than I can describe myself. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's vastly more information available than what I just listed.

-dex

originally posted by: Agree2Disagree
a reply to: corblimeyguvnor

Maybe you can explain why anyone cares? Who cares if they're tracking you? I'm a regular joe-schmoe with nothing to hide...so why would I care if they watch me?

A2D

Warrentless spying that brings, everyone into an area, yes everyone, being monitored. That's not even to go into the internet related NSA spying.

Guilt by association? CT sites, whether one believes in CTs or not, leaving a trail on a site is enough to warrant suspicion.


From cellphones,to credit card purchases and RealID:


"New York City cops have used Stingray cellphone trackers over 1,000 times since 2008"

The New York Police Department has used cell-site simulators more than 1,000 times between 2008 and May of 2015, according to a new report from the New York Civil Liberties Union. The information comes in response to a Freedom of Information Law request filed by the organization last year.

Commonly referred to by the brand name Stingray, cell-site simulators work by masquerading as 2G cell towers, pulling information from all nearby phones but disrupting cell service throughout the area. The NYPD has never acknowledged using Stingrays, although departments in Baltimore and Chicago have already come clean about using the device, and many have speculated that Stingrays might be in use in the city.

Source


"Four men—including a pair of pastors—sue Tacoma police over stingray documents"

The Thursday lawsuit comes nine months after Washington imposed a new warrant requirement for stingray use in the state and about 15 months after local Pierce County judges imposed stricter guidelines for their use.

"Stingray devices provide police departments with an unprecedented ability to sweep up information from cellular devices. It affects many others in the neighborhood along with the targets of an investigation," La Rond Baker, an ACLU Washington attorney, said in a statement. "The Constitution protects Americans against searches without suspicion, and we are very concerned about the secrecy concerning the [Tacoma Police Department’s] use of its stingray."

Source


For cellphone tracking;
Feds Warrantlessly Tracking Americans’ Credit Cards in Real Time


Also see,for RealID: Source


In the end it doesn't matter if "You haven't done anything wrong":
"Indiana grandmother suffers violent SWAT raid after a neighbor uses her wireless internet "

EVANSVILLE, IN — An innocent elderly woman’s home was raided by SWAT when she was suspected of using the internet to trash-talk and post threats toward the local police. In response, gun-wielding assailants breached her doors and windows in a violent search for electronic evidence.

Source

originally posted by: corblimeyguvnor
I don't thing they are "watching" TBQH, more storing the data in case they need to find out where someone has been, after a crime has been committed or such like. Much like the CCTV data stored from all cameras across all of our cities.

You'd be surprised at the data that's gathered from apparently innocent actions.

Take affinity cards. Use your Von's card, and you get a few pennies off this or that. And that allows them to associate what you purchased with you.

Do that enough, and Coca-Cola knows that you routinely purchase their products, and typically on a Wednesday, which they might use to send you targeted mailings.

But the Government adds it to a behavioral state space model for you. It builds up a picture of your behavior, your preferences, your habits. If those change, Coke may send you free product asking you to come back, but the model could tell, in addition to other inputs, that Uncle Joe is likely to have moved in with you. Or Achmed, your third level social relation.

You'd be amazed at what they can predict about you, based on data from all those affinity cards, credit card, debit card and check-linked purchase info, when you buy things, your web activity, facebook postings etc.

Better yet, if your behavior suddenly changes, it tells them other things.

Mostly they don't look, or care. But there's a whole science built around constructing and analyzing state space behavior models. And a network of very very capable computational facilities that maintain and process them.

a reply to: lavatrance

Two words.

Altoids can.

Use it.

a reply to: Bedlam
Nascent psychodynamics.
Next step psychohistory.

a reply to: Bedlam

Ohh you just made me figure something out for me...
When I do the shopping cards Vons, Martins, Food Lion
& etc, I always used X-File characters...I just moved in
March & regardless of the bogus names I DO receive
bloody coupons from Martins where I shop...so info
for the came from debit or credit card info? WOW

OK but how can forget the X-Files episode where Moulder
is being tracked from his $20 bill with a strip like our $20s
today....that kicked Arse! Now did that episode air before
or after the official new metal strip bills?

Cheers
Ektar

originally posted by: lavatrance
How do you feel about your DL having an RFID chip in it tracking your every move???

Couldn't care less!
I have no illusions about 'privacy' or 'secrets'.
I simply do not do that which would embarrass me were it Known, and ALL is Known!
Let them follow me, they might learn something!

Where there are 'secrets', there is fear!