EPA Goes After Low-Income Farmers In Land Grab

I just dumped out my birdbath.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So, your argument is that since all land has some form of run-off that even private land should be controlled by the State and that no one can own any land?...

If their runoff is polluting the water that runs through their property, then yeah, I'm okay with that.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Well aside from all your straw man BS about China & not being able to own private property?

You can't dump your filth in the waterways.
Jesus it's GHHJGY simple what is wrong with you people.

I get my water from the local river & I'll be damned if some ignorant 7566775 gets to dump his trash in my water upstream.

K~

a reply to: aethertek

do you actually believe farmers, who use clean water for their crops and animals, purposefully neglect the same clean water they require to continue to have high yield harvests? Its not small farms that often times have the most run off of pesticides, its the very large corporate owned farms who have most of that. And its those same corporate owned farming operations who spend large amounts of money on lobbying to groups like the EPA do to this very thing so they can go ahead and buy up that poor farmers land after he is forced to sell it all off because of the govt bureaucracy. And your asking for more of these large mega farms to spring up? i thought you liked clean water?

a reply to: aethertek

Again, the solution is not to dismantle American's right to own private property/land...

Having the State control all land is not going to get rid of fertilizer, or manure in waterways runoff...

You are also using nothing but insults as an argument by calling farmers ignorant... Nice going there buddy, guess your argument is to insult and belittle the very same people who allow you to feed yourself, and your family...

Even the EPA has admitted that farmers have done their hardest to stop this, but the EPA still claims it is not enough. They claim this because the aim is for the government/State to control all land...

Anyway... Government control of all land will not stop fertilizer, or manure in waterways runoff unless the government completely shuts down all farms... How will you feed the population then?...

originally posted by: greencmp
I just dumped out my birdbath.

Wait til the EPA bans rain water harvesting.

It's coming.

This is all a part of Agenda 21. Its already illegal to collect rain water off your own roof! I broke the law and collected it anyway, so there.

a reply to: roaland

Good argument there. But you are not going to convince a lot of people who simply want to be right and want to take away the right of Americans to own land/private property...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

i could care less if they agree with me or not. I ain't here to make to friends. I'm here to give me opinion bc the electorate and those who claim to represent me ain't doing a very good job. Listening to Charlie Daniels Simple Man right now finishing up my shift at work and thats about how i feel after everything that's happened in this country this year so far.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: greencmp
I just dumped out my birdbath.

Wait til the EPA bans rain water harvesting.

It's coming.

Without a doubt, the precedent is already there.

Higher tax in Maryland can be blamed on the rain

President Walt Townsend of the Baltimore Washington Corridor Chamber of Commerce says the tax is “most problematic” and that many “don’t realize the fee is coming.”

The impact upon businesses, nonprofits and homeowners associations could be major. Townsend says some businesses could face fees in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Residents could face a fee anywhere between $10 to $200. And whether you call it a tax or a fee, it goes into effect July 1, 2013.

originally posted by: windword
If their runoff is polluting the water that runs through their property, then yeah, I'm okay with that.

Here is a 2014 report from the Chesapeake Bay Foundation, which states the bay’s water quality has improved 40 percent since the early 1980s.

www.cbf.org...

U.S. government controlled farmlands, or corporate farmlands will not be able to do better... They will discharge as much, or more fertilizer, and manure into waterways...


This is simply an excuse by the Obama administration and the EPA to deny Americans/farmers the right to own land...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Again, the solution is not to dismantle American's right to own private property/land...

& again since that is not what I said stop with that strawman argument, it's BS.

No I'm calling the argument posted in this thread against reasonable regulation against water pollution ignorant.

Ooh it's all a conspiracy to steal or control land has nothing to do with mitigating pollution no that would be too reasonable.

K~

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

If you haven't noticed the government is taking all of the lands with resources on them.

It's not a coincidence.

Finite resources.

originally posted by: aethertek

& again since that is not what I said stop with that strawman argument, it's BS.

No I'm calling the argument posted in this thread against reasonable regulation against water pollution ignorant.

Ooh it's all a conspiracy to steal or control land has nothing to do with mitigating pollution no that would be too reasonable.

K~

Read the information provided.... What the EPA, and the Obama administration want to do is to shut down most of these farmlands and transfer the land to State control...

If anyone's argument is ignorant, it is those who think the government, or corporations will do any better when farmers are doing everything possible...

I love seeing people with no ag background have such strong opinions. The difference between corporate ag and small time farms is huge. Most small time farms have no time to worry about what runs off of there property, while corporate ag is monitored. The runoff from an ag operation is important for all sizes of operations, whether it is antibiotics from animal ops, among other things, or fertilizer and chemical runoff from a crop operation. They both affect folks downstream.

ETA: I have no love of corporate ag, but they payoff the locals.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

For someone who claims to have knowledge on ag runoff you make a lot of assumptions...

Any facts to corroborate your claim that industrial/corporate farms do a better job?...

...
Certain ECs used in industrial livestock production

Agriculture can be both a source and a recipient of a wide range of ECs. Perhaps most notably, the use of ECs such as antibiotics and hormones has become standard industry practice in industrial livestock production.
...

www.foodsafetynews.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Read the information provided....

Take your own goddamn advise...

No where in the new regulations is there even the hint of ,,,

This is simply an excuse by the Obama administration and the EPA to deny Americans/farmers the right to own land...

that's BS

They're just not allowed to pollute at the levels they have been so oh my god some land use may need be re-purposed.

Just stop with your BS about taking away peoples right to own land.

This just sets additional runoff pollution limits eg;

Total Maximum Daily Load or TMDL is a scientific estimate of the maximum amount of pollution a body of water ...

www.cbf.org...

K~

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: BubbaJoe

For someone who claims to have knowledge on ag runoff you make a lot of assumptions...

Any facts to corroborate your claim that industrial/corporate farms do a better job?...

...
Certain ECs used in industrial livestock production

Agriculture can be both a source and a recipient of a wide range of ECs. Perhaps most notably, the use of ECs such as antibiotics and hormones has become standard industry practice in industrial livestock production.
...

www.foodsafetynews.com...

You make a lot of assumptions attacking me, but that is the only way you know how to argue. Yeah, I have facts seen with my own eyes, of dead cows being bulldozed into streams, to the fact the farm was so dirty we refused to pickup their milk. I have three years with a very large dairy coop in the US, we had about 300 members, and about 100,000 cows.

ETA: I have worked with 3 - 6000 cow dairies, the corporate dairies took manure management a lot more seriously than a 60 cow dairy did.

a reply to: BubbaJoe

As someone who was bragging about your ability to use your small farm to be self-sufficient, this concerns you.

They'll want to control your land. These regs will make it difficult to impossible for you to continue to be self-sufficient. That's the aim, and then you will have to forfeit your family's independence because you simply can't afford to comply.

So much for that boast you were making about self-sufficiency in the other thread.

And the most important part...

...
Current regulations do not limit EC release into the environment

The primary statute governing chemical use in the U.S. is the Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA). TSCA was adopted in 1976 and has not since been significantly amended despite advancements in technology and new understandings of ECs. Most groups, including consumer advocates, science associations, and government agencies, agree that TSCA needs to be updated to ensure chemical safety.

In May 2013, U.S. Sens. Frank Lautenberg and David Vitter introduced the Chemical Safety Improvement Act with strong bipartisan support. Improvements to TSCA would include mandating safety evaluations for all chemicals used in commerce, requiring new chemicals to be deemed safe before entering the market, and making more information about chemicals publicly available.

In addition to improving TSCA, some groups have focused on regulating specific ECs.

The Natural Resources Defense Counsel (NRDC), for example, has won two decisions against FDA (one is on appeal) for the agency’s failure to withdraw approval for non-therapeutic uses of penicillin and tetracyclines in animal feed when FDA acknowledged more than 30 years ago that using antibiotics in livestock production poses human health risks.

“Ideally, antibiotic use will be replaced with better management practices,” said NRDC staff attorney Avi Kar.

Kar pointed out that Denmark, a large pork exporter, banned antibiotics in feed more than a decade ago and uses better management practices. Since then, Denmark’s livestock production has grown.
...

www.foodsafetynews.com...

The U.S. government itself is allowing the use of penicillin and tetracyclines in animal feed. Which means the government itself is at fault for allowing this practice which industrial ag takes advantage of.

Instead of changing the government policy, which is at fault, the fault is being transferred to small farmers, and the solution the State/government wants to implement is to shut down these small farms and have them under State control?...