L5-S1 issues in my spine

Can't tell you what to do, only summarize my experiences while neither advocating for or against surgery...

For me, specialists insisted on surgery to help repair multiple areas of my spine, even then I would never tie my shoes again. Moving the wrong way or lifting over 20 lbs. could leave me paralyzed they said. Knowing many people without a reduction in pain and reduced mobility after surgery, I kindly declined and began a modified version of my relatively physical life. My physician prescribed painkillers, etc. After 2 years the realization dawned that the condition remained unchanged, in addition the brain was foggy and the pain was constant.

The pills went in the trash. 2 600 mg Ibuprofen tablets, staying mobile, and stretching in very hot showers began. Many times an Epson salt bath was also required after a bad day. Later cutting down on the ibuprofen and Epson salt baths. Over the course of 30 years things got better, not worse.

Rarely take Ibuprofen or Epson salt baths now, and still tie my own shoes. Yesterday's activities consisted of 4 hours working my sons car, removing our living room couch & recliners to the dump, picked up and installed the replacement furniture, then went to a ballgame. A bit stiff and sore today, but its easily tolerable without ibuprofen, and probably similar to other folks my age without any back issues.

Mostly I'm just bull-headed, and refused to let pain rule me, but stretching in the hot shower provides relief to start the day, Ibuprofen reduces inflammation during the day, and Epson salt baths provide pretty good temporary relief before bed, which relaxes you enough that "things" pop back into place while sleeping.

a reply to: hibbity

I don't have extensive damage in my spine, but I had surgery in both my shoulders due to calcification and that goes all over the body, I bought a tens unit when I had my first surgery 14 years ago in my right shoulder, because that was the standard at the time, during my physical therapy and helped gradually with pain, but when I had my second shoulder surgery in my left shoulder a year ago, it was ultrasound waves the standard.

The tens worked well for me at home, but I didn't purchase an ultrasound waves machine this time, but I can tell that right after the physical therapist used it, the pain will go away for hours right away.

a reply to: txjab512

Absolutely the exact advice I was going to give

The thing with his theory is that there is a lack of blood flow to the painful area.

This was confirmed in my case over a course of years. I did Chinese cupping and massage therapy, I was told more than once that it seemed like not enough blood was flowing to painful areas of my back.

Another thing that Dr Sarno asserts is that the body has extremely gracious tolerances and can still remain in spec. Herniations and subluxations are not the actual cause of pain. This brought to mind a friend who worked at a university and had an MRI and xray for his own experimental purposes. He told me his back looked terrible, however he was not in pain before or after the scans.

I recalled these things when I read the book and it lined up with the cases that Dr Sarno dealt with.

Your body will heal from trauma. You should get better.

There are things like tumors and Lyme disease that can cause pain as well, but that is something different.

Stress can affect your golf swing or your survivability in a car crash (People that are intoxicated and relaxed often survive with minimal injuries) so this idea in Sarnos book isn't as far fetched as it initially sounds.

double post

double post

a reply to: Lolliek

Yes, as it turned out for me, I should have been more skeptical be four I had the first cervical fusion because as it turned out, my original problem could have, should have, been treated with less radical procedures first but I trusted the POS orthopedic surgeon's recamendation an underwent my first surgical fusion. What a monumental mistake. He totally botched the surgery by installing the plate to the upper vertebrae tilted to one side which caused missalignment and constant muscular pain. The end result was that the 2nd fusion was a direct result of the first botched surgery. During the diagnostic procedures in preparation for the 2nd, the radiological technician told me that it was not uncommon to herniate a disk above or below the previous fusion. The POS, Dr. Charles Shock only saw me as just another source of financial gratification and performed a totally unnecessary procedure on me. I curse him to this day and hope he is burning in hell right now.

Surgery is the last resort, not the first. There is no turning back the clock after a surgery is performed.

originally posted by: Lolliek
My sympathies as I understand what you are going through. I'm 50 now, and have been suffering since a car accident when I was 16. IF you have to get a fusion, make sure all other options have been ruled out. No one ever tells you that once you have a spinal fusion, everything else will be affected. The vertebrae on either side of the fusion get over-stressed and start to have issues (facet problems, disc problems, scoliosis, even arthritis). Then, your other joints will start to wear down quickly due to change of gait, stance, posture, etc. It wouldn't have changed anything for me -it was a fusion or paralysis- but I wish someone would've let me know what I was in for. Constantly in pain, a lifetime of pain medication, a new hip, 2 new knees (on the same leg), reconstruction of my foot and ankle, and twisting of the unfused spine. Make your doctor lay it all out for you. Make an INFORMED decision.

Good luck -

I had a discogram done (all Lumber and s1) in November along with a CT scan both my neck to my tail bone. I have like 9 dics in question from buldges to herniations. On the report I got back, the Neurosurgeon says I am exhibiting a conjoining segment sudrome without being fused yet. I assume that the body holds the bad disk and taxes the adjoining ones .Now exhibiting in the T region too with issues besides the usual cervical and lumber.

originally posted by: Night Star
I have spinal stenosis and other back problems. I have nerve damage in one leg. I refuse any kind of operation unless I'm going to end up in a wheelchair. I wish you luck with whatever you do.

I also have stenosis, mostly foraminal stenosis from moderate to severe, much more on the left side. My father had to be operated on about 15 years ago for this too.

I had a test done with the nerve conduction device and my left side is worse. I really feel more pain on my right though. They were amazed that level of the left side is blocked so badly. After the test it brought on a sciatica like condition for weeks.

originally posted by: hibbity

originally posted by: Night Star
I have spinal stenosis and other back problems. I have nerve damage in one leg. I refuse any kind of operation unless I'm going to end up in a wheelchair. I wish you luck with whatever you do.

I also have stenosis, mostly foraminal stenosis from moderate to severe, much more on the left side. My father had to be operated on about 15 years ago for this too.

I had a test done with the nerve conduction device and my left side is worse. I really feel more pain on my right though. They were amazed that level of the left side is blocked so badly. After the test it brought on a sciatica like condition for weeks.

May I ask if you are on disability and do you take any kind of pain medication? My heart really goes out to you and so many others who are suffering. Hugs!

a reply to: Night Star

I had spinal stenosis for a couple of years, constant pain, sleepless night, couldn't stand for long etc, addicted to pain killers!

I had an operation.

I no longer have Spinal stenosis and have my life back, best thing I ever did.

You really should think about it.

a reply to: hibbity

Follow the treatment recommended by your doctor. Don’t worry, you will be fine soon.

originally posted by: Night Star


May I ask if you are on disability and do you take any kind of pain medication? My heart really goes out to you and so many others who are suffering. Hugs!

No disability, I am trying to run a family contracting business with my father. It is underwater now, rather bad too. I have pain meds but only take the strongest one at night. At first, they made my face feel like a fresh cheese pizza turned sideways in the box. Now the affects are easily tolerated. I just don't want to get addicted or have an accident. I remember when I took ,y first muscle relaxer and wanted to lie down in the car while driving. It made me so tired. Now, it is like tic tacs.

a reply to: FawnyKate

The majority of my stenosis is not car accident related. So the NJ car insurance don't care about it. I would have to see another doctor to get that fixed.

What operation did they give you for the stenosis?

The car accident neurosurgeon whom wants to fuse me says I can take the pain from your legs but the rest of your back will give you pain and problems like a self rearming time bomb.

originally posted by: hibbity

originally posted by: Night Star


May I ask if you are on disability and do you take any kind of pain medication? My heart really goes out to you and so many others who are suffering. Hugs!

No disability, I am trying to run a family contracting business with my father. It is underwater now, rather bad too. I have pain meds but only take the strongest one at night. At first, they made my face feel like a fresh cheese pizza turned sideways in the box. Now the affects are easily tolerated. I just don't want to get addicted or have an accident. I remember when I took ,y first muscle relaxer and wanted to lie down in the car while driving. It made me so tired. Now, it is like tic tacs.

You made me crack up with the part about meds making your face feel like a fresh cheese pizza turned sideways in a box! Ahahahaha!

Yeah, I'm on different meds for different reasons and most make you tired.

I have had stenosis the foranaimal type previously. My father had his back opened up for this a decade and a half ago. They found it on lots of levels after I got all the scans for the car accident. So I guess what is car accident related will have to be split from that which isn't.

The car accident gave me neck and back issues, whiplash and a herniation. Carpal tunnel from that radiopathy. Lumbar issues where they usually blow out.

The back issue did my hamstrings and knees wrong, plus the burning at night. I don't really walk anymore for exercise. I have hypertension and walked to assist on abatement. So I blew up another fifty pounds to 350 almost. I was 6'11" but figure the discs must have knocked down with the trauma.

None of my stenosis has been addressed I forgot to say.

I had an 'injury' for years and it turned into chronic syndrome (which happens a lot).

I later become a mentor for others in chronic pain, especially the symptoms you speak of. Helped dozens over the years.

I can maybe lend assistance.

Stenosis" and "Herniations" are not an indicator of causality of radial pain.

Many people live healthy, pain free, mobile lives with both COMMON diagnoses.

originally posted by: dusty1
a reply to: txjab512

Absolutely the exact advice I was going to give

The thing with his theory is that there is a lack of blood flow to the painful area.

This was confirmed in my case over a course of years. I did Chinese cupping and massage therapy, I was told more than once that it seemed like not enough blood was flowing to painful areas of my back.

Another thing that Dr Sarno asserts is that the body has extremely gracious tolerances and can still remain in spec. Herniations and subluxations are not the actual cause of pain. This brought to mind a friend who worked at a university and had an MRI and xray for his own experimental purposes. He told me his back looked terrible, however he was not in pain before or after the scans.

I recalled these things when I read the book and it lined up with the cases that Dr Sarno dealt with.

Your body will heal from trauma. You should get better.

There are things like tumors and Lyme disease that can cause pain as well, but that is something different.

Stress can affect your golf swing or your survivability in a car crash (People that are intoxicated and relaxed often survive with minimal injuries) so this idea in Sarnos book isn't as far fetched as it initially sounds.

I didn't see this post. I'm a TMS specialist and mentor. Dr. Sarno saved my life along with Dr. Brady, Schecter, and others in the field. They helped me mentor others, 16 to date. All pain free.

Tension Myositis IS real and treatable. Glad to know there are people out there aware of "Mind Body" medicine.

I bought a few books in the last month or so. Trying to get through them right now.

Do You Really Need Back Surgery?: A Surgeon's Guide to Neck and Back Pain and How to Choose Your Treatment 2nd Edition
by Aaron G. Filler

Back in Control: A spine surgeon's roadmap out of chronic pain
by David Hanscom MD

Back Mechanic
by Dr. Stuart McGill