A perpetual motion machine that actually works?

a reply to: anonentity

My dad was a watchmaker. I grew up around clocks & watches. I suspect a tensioned spring is the source of the energy (and has to be re-tensioned to continue to run). The rest is just an elaborate escapement mechanism and pendulums.

Most advanced mechanical clock mechanisms can run for over a month on a single 'wind-up'.

You could probably even make it more efficient by loosing the magnets and instead changing the camber of the circular track, IMHO.

a reply to: anonentity

Not the old idea that 'big oil' is covering it all up to preserve their profit margins again, or would do so if such a device was invented.

Show the major electrical energy producers a proven means of spinning their alternators at full power without any fuel input and they'd be abandoning their existing reactors, boilers, turbines etc ASAP to improve their profit margins if nothing else (like environmental factors).

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but it can be converted and that's what 'machines' do IE they need energy input to provide energy output in a different form such as electrical, mechanical etc. A perpetual motion machine has only its own initial energy to convert so is only perpetual as long as no energy is removed from the overall process. People have been trying to make such a thing for centuries and so far - all failures or hoaxes but I know that won't discourage any genuine experimenters. They should do some study of the history of these things first to save some time though.

Here's a question.

Let's say his machine is extremely efficient.. Even very close to 100, and could go on a long time...

What does that do for anyone though?

It's still not over unity. Unless he is claiming that it is.

a reply to: deadlyhope

He's not, he is claiming 80-90%. He's not claiming OU, or perpetual motion.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

So this post means nothing really?

I personally believe in a deceptive form of over unity.

Where we perceive over 100 percent, but really we are just utilizing energy from sources previously less explored, something like ions in the air, or some unintentional manipulation of dark matter.

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: anonentity

Not the old idea that 'big oil' is covering it all up to preserve their profit margins again, or would do so if such a device was invented.

Show the major electrical energy producers a proven means of spinning their alternators at full power without any fuel input and they'd be abandoning their existing reactors, boilers, turbines etc ASAP to improve their profit margins if nothing else (like environmental factors).

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but it can be converted and that's what 'machines' do IE they need energy input to provide energy output in a different form such as electrical, mechanical etc. A perpetual motion machine has only its own initial energy to convert so is only perpetual as long as no energy is removed from the overall process. People have been trying to make such a thing for centuries and so far - all failures or hoaxes but I know that won't discourage any genuine experimenters. They should do some study of the history of these things first to save some time though.

Then if you have a coiled spring, and place it in acid which will dissolve it totally .Then where does the kinetic energy in the spring go?

a reply to: deadlyhope

That's still not over unity. It doesn't exist. Energy comes from somewhere every time.

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: anonentity

Not the old idea that 'big oil' is covering it all up to preserve their profit margins again, or would do so if such a device was invented.

Show the major electrical energy producers a proven means of spinning their alternators at full power without any fuel input and they'd be abandoning their existing reactors, boilers, turbines etc ASAP to improve their profit margins if nothing else (like environmental factors).

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but it can be converted and that's what 'machines' do IE they need energy input to provide energy output in a different form such as electrical, mechanical etc. A perpetual motion machine has only its own initial energy to convert so is only perpetual as long as no energy is removed from the overall process. People have been trying to make such a thing for centuries and so far - all failures or hoaxes but I know that won't discourage any genuine experimenters. They should do some study of the history of these things first to save some time though.

Then if you have a coiled spring, and place it in acid which will dissolve it totally .Then where does the kinetic energy in the spring go?

There is none. I think you mean potential energy.

a reply to: anonentity

That's a curly problem

I'd expect the spring's (and the structure holding it in a compressed state) potential energy to be lost as heat, agitation of the solution and a subtle change in the balance of chemical energy during the process but an interesting experiment for someone to perform indeed.

a reply to: Pilgrum

I would imagine rather than the potential energy released all at once it would be released over time as it dissolves. Much like if you take a huge boulder and lift it up, and then chip little pieces off of it that fall. Each piece that comes off releases some of that potential energy.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: anonentity

originally posted by: Pilgrum
a reply to: anonentity

Not the old idea that 'big oil' is covering it all up to preserve their profit margins again, or would do so if such a device was invented.

Show the major electrical energy producers a proven means of spinning their alternators at full power without any fuel input and they'd be abandoning their existing reactors, boilers, turbines etc ASAP to improve their profit margins if nothing else (like environmental factors).

Energy cannot be created or destroyed but it can be converted and that's what 'machines' do IE they need energy input to provide energy output in a different form such as electrical, mechanical etc. A perpetual motion machine has only its own initial energy to convert so is only perpetual as long as no energy is removed from the overall process. People have been trying to make such a thing for centuries and so far - all failures or hoaxes but I know that won't discourage any genuine experimenters. They should do some study of the history of these things first to save some time though.

Then if you have a coiled spring, and place it in acid which will dissolve it totally .Then where does the kinetic energy in the spring go?

There is none. I think you mean potential energy.

Sorry that's right potential.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


If it was a coiled railway stock spring, their could be a ton or more of potential energy stored in it. Actually that teaser was in the first issue of Omni magazine, no one could answer it then.

a reply to: anonentity

Yes, potential, and I gave an answer. I am unsure if it's right, but it very well could be. Here is the answer again.

I would imagine rather than the potential energy released all at once it would be released over time as it dissolves. Much like if you take a huge boulder and lift it up, and then chip little pieces off of it that fall. Each piece that comes off the spring as it dissolves turns some of that potential energy into kinetic energy.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

After some consideration of this compressed spring in acid problem: The rate of corrosion is going to be random and uneven presenting a 'jenga block' type situation where, eventually, critical failure will occur somewhere releasing what energy there is left in the remaining compressed metal structure. Much of the molecules bearing that potential energy of compression will have been dissolved in the acid slowly but one final sudden release of what remains will occur bringing the overall spring structure back to its rest state before it too gets consumed. For the example of a compressed 1 ton spring you'd want a sturdy container and to maintain a safe distance mythbusters style.

a reply to: anonentity

I recall seeing that video at least 2 years ago.
So if you could find out if his machine is still running today then maybe..

But we've no evidence of it constantly running.

He should install a camera and stream it 24/7

a reply to: SecretKnowledge

The creator never claimed it was a PPM. It's not.

I've only ever seen one perpetual motion motion machine which I believe does work but there's a very important catch: the moment you try to tap into its energy it will slow down and stop, therefore it's totally useless as a generator. I imagine the exact same thing applies to this device, if it really is a true perpetual motion device. I think it may be real because the other machine I saw used magnets and this guys machine also uses magnets. I don't think perpetual motion is an impossibility, our planet would continue orbiting around the sun forever if space wasn't full of junk, but we if we tried to extract energy from our planets motion then the orbit would decay. An electron could theoretically orbit around some nuclei forever because they are in a perfectly stable state. The thing which is truly impossible is free energy, that's where the laws of physics get broken. We shouldn't be aiming for a machine which creates energy out of nothing, we should aim for a machine which is highly efficient at converting mass into energy, basically very efficient nuclear power. Energy could be made so abundant it may as well be free.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Isn't perpetual motion then.

Perpetual motion machines are meant to last for infinity. Here's 2 main problems with neodynium magnets.

1, they lose about 1% of their effect every 100 years. So after an amount of time they would stop working.

2, the magnets themselves would erode.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Perpetual motion Machine implies it can do work.

Although technically anything with magnets is simply using a power source, as magnets do run out.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Very good point, magnets do eventually run out of charge so it wouldn't last forever and therefore wouldn't be perpetual motion.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Perpetual motion does not imply being able to do work, it implies a never stopping motion, regardless of whether energy can be extracted from that motion or not. Just because it's a word commonly used to refer to free energy devices does not mean that usage is correct. It's used that way by people who have no idea what they are talking about.