refugees beaten in Russia after molesting women in nightclub

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: asen_y2k

In other words, you would have stood there and watched a woman be sexually assaulted without saying a word.

I would have called the cops, informed the boxers at the bar/club. Its their job to handle situations like these. They are there for a reason.

You're in a swimming pool and see a kid in distress that looks like he could drown, the lifeguard is preoccupied, do you wait to get his attention because it's his job to deal with it or help the kid?

Standing by and watching somebody else suffer isn't part of our programming. I'd like to think most of us are sensible enough to know what the right and wrong thing is in a given situation and be able to handle it in a measured way.

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If it went down exactly how it was reported I can't say I feel sorry for them.

The problem is, we will never know if this really happened, or slavic supremacists used that as an excuse to beat up some non-locals..

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: asen_y2k
But in a civilized society is violence the answer to violence? Then whats the difference between them both?

One type of violence was for sexual gratification and the following violence was to teach the lesson that assaulting women-folk will not be accepted but met head on whenever confronted.

Well, you see, there are laws for some reason, without them a society is no different from barbarism of old ages. Civilized means law abiding. When one section breaks laws, does not mean others should follow. Its like saying when a cat meows in front of you, you respond by barking at it. Why stoop down to the lower sections of society?

I usually agree with you, asen... A lot...

But when sexual aggression/violence comes into it all bets are off and the Law has no say in the matter until after the fact.

Ok, consder this. A guy and girl who are friends, gets into a arguement in the bar over some petty matter, a drunk guy sitting beside them, summararily decides it is a case of harrasment, forms a group, beats the # out of him, just for the sake of false bravado, even kills him, then what? I repeat, there are laws in our society for a reason. Put a charge, prove it, convict. 1000s of years have taught us these laws, they did not form overnight.

Your scenario is completely made up to match your point of view and does not match the situation described in the OP. Stick with the scenario and remember: When seconds count, cops are only minutes away. Being "civilized" means stopping an uncivilized threat, which these Russians did. You can go hide in a corner and pretend that makes you civilized if you want. Others seeing that behavior might prefer calling someone who did that a coward.

originally posted by: TheTory
a reply to: Bluntone22

Can we hypothesize on what would have happened if the same happened in Europe?

I wager screams of racist brownshirts, far-right extremists and nazi's would be hurled at them.

If thats how I would be labeled, I'm OK with that, even though it's not the same thing.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs

originally posted by: asen_y2k
But in a civilized society is violence the answer to violence? Then whats the difference between them both?

One type of violence was for sexual gratification and the following violence was to teach the lesson that assaulting women-folk will not be accepted but met head on whenever confronted.

Well, you see, there are laws for some reason, without them a society is no different from barbarism of old ages. Civilized means law abiding. When one section breaks laws, does not mean others should follow. Its like saying when a cat meows in front of you, you respond by barking at it. Why stoop down to the lower sections of society?

I usually agree with you, asen... A lot...

But when sexual aggression/violence comes into it all bets are off and the Law has no say in the matter until after the fact.

Ok, consder this. A guy and girl who are friends, gets into a arguement in the bar over some petty matter, a drunk guy sitting beside them, summararily decides it is a case of harrasment, forms a group, beats the # out of him, just for the sake of false bravado, even kills him, then what? I repeat, there are laws in our society for a reason. Put a charge, prove it, convict. 1000s of years have taught us these laws, they did not form overnight.

I'm failing to see where in your hypothetical there is an example of reacting to sexual assault.

I stay out of domestics. Personally.

If I see sexual assault you can bet your bottom dollar I'm reacting to it though.

So the question is will a drunk group give someone a proper judicial system to explain if whats going on sexual assault or some petty domestic matter before bashing a persons face in? Can you see what exactly I am trying to explain here?

Luckily western society in reality is much different from ATS. Much civilized. These type of things can only happen in Russia and ATS.

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015
If it went down exactly how it was reported I can't say I feel sorry for them.

The problem is, we will never know if this really happened, or slavic supremacists used that as an excuse to beat up some non-locals..

There is that possibility, baraka...

I don't think any of us would agree with such a thing happening, but sometimes you have to take the news at face value...

Of course it's Russia, and racism is rife over there...

This could still be the exception to the rule.

originally posted by: MagnaCarta2015

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: asen_y2k

In other words, you would have stood there and watched a woman be sexually assaulted without saying a word.

I would have called the cops, informed the boxers at the bar/club. Its their job to handle situations like these. They are there for a reason.

You're in a swimming pool and see a kid in distress that looks like he could drown, the lifeguard is preoccupied, do you wait to get his attention because it's his job to deal with it or help the kid?

Standing by and watching somebody else suffer isn't part of our programming. I'd like to think most of us are sensible enough to know what the right and wrong thing is in a given situation and be able to handle it in a measured way.

What if a group decides you are a pedo when you are infact trying to save the kid? Do you support pedos? I hate em, lets kill you. You see my point here? Vigilanti justice is not justice.

Your example will save a life, worst case, you will get convicted of pedo. Russian case can kill innocents. I will not take a life or hurt summarily. But will deffinately not hurt someone summarily.

a reply to: clay2 baraka

That is a possibility I'd considered. Russia has a huge neo nazi problem and for the most part the authorities turn a blind eye to it. It's entirely possible it played out the way it was reported though.

a reply to: asen_y2k

Witnessing a sexual assault is a fight or flight moment...

It's not comparable to any other situation.


As Schuyler said, seconds count...

Police can only deal with it after the fact.
No thanks.

Imagine that was your mother or sister or daughter, you wouldn't be waiting for police back up I assure you of that.

a reply to: asen_y2k

We get it dude, you're against violence of any sort however justified because it can lead to unjustified violence. You're still way off base & not really even discussing the same topic as everyone else.

Please please stop repeating yourself.

a reply to: asen_y2k

If I know I did the right thing and the kid survives then it is what it is. We can't go through life being afraid of doing the right thing because others might perceive it wrongly, where would that leave us as a society?

I see the disconnect in thought here....it's a problem

I call it " in the field "....kinda a priority thing....to care for others and truth....

see, one can't let the bad groping go until someone gets a call and then responds to the idiots, what ya do is lay them on the ground gently with a smile but effectively with a command voice.......standing for truth of society. use their belts or someones belts to tie their wrist to their ankles.....I do it in football open field tackle style and mindset......

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: asen_y2k


Imagine that was your mother or sister or daughter, you wouldn't be waiting for police back up I assure you of that.

You bring up the law concerning self defence/guilty by not taking action.

Proper action in the night club, when everyone is drunk, is for the boxers to take. They are there, at that spot, accountable. I will not standby doing nothing. I will inform the boxers, if they have not already seen it.

DP

a reply to: asen_y2k

If you truly believe the things you are saying on this thread then you have divorced yourself from humanity.

You see yourself as impotent, ineffective as a human being, totally reliant on others and the 'system" and a bystander of life.

Not me and not the other posters. If I see a chance to help someone, I take it.

People's values dictate what they do. If I value helping others, I do. If I value saving my own skin while avoiding repercussions at the expense of another, I will turn my back.

It's not the right choice.

originally posted by: whyamIhere
In America...

We would of blamed our women.

We would jail our local men.

We would protest The Police by looting and burning down our own neighborhood.

We would provide housing for these immigrants.

We would immediately put them on Public Assistance.

Tell me I'm wrong..

I would love to tell you, you are wrong. But, unfortunately, this administration has created a Bizzarro America where what was right is now wrong.

Des

a reply to: asen_y2k

Vigilanti justice is not justice

Au contraire. Sometimes it's the best justice there is, and sometimes it's the only justice. If someone is trying to rape me, should I just lie there and wait until it's over, so I can call police? After all, it's their job, right?

Utter nonsense.

a reply to: asen_y2k

Law abiding, does not means, vigilantism also. What if muslims forms vililanty groups in a western country? Vigilantism in all forms is moving backwards in time.

In this case, boxers should have detained these fellows till the police arrived, taken notes, video cam evidence and put these groppers in prison, where they belong. Thats a Law abiding, civilized society.

Telling the authorities is the very least one can do, especially when it comes to assault or violence. Defending someone from immediate harm is not vigilantism; its a civil duty. If one must wait for the authorities to arrive, then following that logic, one cannot intervene in any crime as it is being committed, and could only stand by and watch while a fellow human being is being harmed or worse. That sounds awful.

Does the beating fit the crime in this specific case? I'm not sure. There is not enough info.

a reply to: TheTory

Yep. Kind of like those American soldiers, and the French guy who intervened with those terrorists on a train (or bus).

If they had decided to wait for 'justice', many people might have killed.

If on 911, if those guys had not said "let's roll", that plane might have landed in the side of the White House, killing not only the passengers who died anyway, but possible hundreds of others on the ground.

God Bless the people who are smart enough and brave enough to intervene!

a reply to: TheTory

Western Russia is Europe.

Nobody,anywhere will take "it"anymore.

There could be trouble ahead...