Why would anyone vote to remain in THIS Europe? I want to Leave now please!

Cor Blimey, just when I was thinking of moving to England or Germany.....Back to the spiritual Ancestoral lands to die, you guys come up with this stuff.
Hey move to UN ZUD.....plenty of room......They have all moved to Australia....

More latest news from Germany.
The German Finance Minister wants to make it illegal to have ANY cash transaction greater than 5000 Euros.....!!!
Apparently to stop all the money laundering and terrorists and bad guys and you know...ordinary people......

Going down like a lead zeppelin......All the News agencies are against it naturally, as is popular opinion.

Its a bit like the other proposal recently...negative interest...you pay the banks, to use Your money.

a reply to: gort51

I stared your post because you said," going down like a lead Zeppelin" someone else said that and it kind of became a big deal,but I can't seem to remember who

a reply to: crazyewok

O I am just egging him on as he is allways talking Bravo about freedom.

I understand that, he's full of the romanticised Braveheart bollocks - plenty of emotion, little of substance.
That's Solo and we wouldn't have him any other way.
But lots of other people don't know that and could easily take umbrage.

I’m half welch.....

And you freely and openly admit to that?
Cue all the stereotypical sheep shagging jokes etc.

....so no I’m not calling them all idiots. Though I do quotation the intelligence of anyone that wants to remain in a disaster like the EU.

Some EU supporters can actually give quite compelling arguments as to why we should stay in the EU - but they are very much in the minority of their numbers, the majority rely on the usual empty political rhetoric.

Personally I lean towards voting to come out of the EU - but I haven't completely made my mind up yet and will wait to see what comes out of the public debate that should begin closer to the actual referendum.

I'm interested to see how the party leaders will react when MP's defy their official party line and campaign against EU membership.
Our party political system has outlived its fit for purpose and only serves to maintain the status quo.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Keith Moon.

originally posted by: MrCrow
For me, personally, I want out. Putting aside the immigrant issue, I want an England (and the rest of the UK if they're willing) to pull out of the EU completely. My reasons? (And, yes, they are selfish and personal so I don't expect everyone to agree):

1) I want to keep the £

I don't give a f.. as long as the bits of paper in my pocket buy me stuff. The queens head, don't make me laugh. Let me pull this paper out of my pocket :
Blue Note - Picture of Lord Jay with a wig on the front and Culzean castle on the back.
Brown Note - Robert Burns on the front and Edinburgh old town on the back
Purple Note - Robert the Bruce on the front and New lanark on the back

2) I don't want to be Brussels sycophant

Well that is your choice irrespective of being in/out of .....anywhere!

3) I want this country to stand by itself and be be proud of itself

That is up to you whether you are in or out. It is your choice to be proud of your heritage or not. I can absolutely 100% guarantee the French remain proudly French!!!!!!!!

Those aren't selfish reasons they are nonsensical. They could apply to being a member of the local Badminton club.

The reason (everyone else) I replied to this post is because it is typical of the attitude the anti EU folks have. Lots of anger and no substance. Angry about things that don't actual exist or happen. Nothing substantial just rants. "We want our sovreignty back" is just a rant when not backed up with an example. I would love to see somebody come up with their top 5 things they cannot do in the UK because of the EU. The vast majority of the legislation we abide by is trade related because surprise surprise trading goods without having rules on what X "is" is fricking daft. Even China has to abide by EU trade rules in order to sell stuff in the EU (didn't the out campaign mention that). Human rights! well thank god we have them. people haven't a clue what this means for them and what protections they have. Human Rights legislation is good for the citizen and bad for authoritarian governments WAKE UP!!! Oh by the way most EU human rights matches UN human rights anyway DUH!!!!

Now I could go on and on about meetings not attended and the missing attendees (UKIP) moaning about decisions made "against the UK", well no fricking sh.t sherlock if you don't turn up.....but claim the expenses.

Then there's the "unelected" EU commission....well hate to break it to you folks but the UK government is run by a cabinet and last time I checked not one single position in the cabinet even the PM, was ever voted for directly by anybody. We vote for MP's and the leader of the party with the most MP's appoints his/her cabinet. The EU Commission has members appointed, one from each country, who then have a vote of approval by the MEP's (who we vote for). What do people expect? Every single position in every single department every time it changes to go to a national vote ?!?!?!?!?!? never happens here, totally unworkable, so why the bitching?

Border control? Don't make me laugh you haven't seen anything yet. Just wait til we come out and Europe allows refugees safe passage through Europe to the UK because that is where they want to go. Bet you France lays on a few ships so the Calais migrants get to where they want to be without drowning, our shores....literally. Europe has been a buffer but some people just don't see that for some inexplicable reason, instead they see it as a "source" of refugees. Jesus H how dumb.

We will suffer if we pull out of the EU, or should I say when because it is clear it's heading that way.

Oh and please don't give me the "Scotland independence but still in EU" contradiction nonsense. It was never about painting faces with a saltire shouting freedom in an aussie accent but about removing London centric control. I'm not Scottish I'm from Yorkshire if I lived in England I would vote for Corbyn (as an optimist) but even now I will still vote SNP (as an anti Tory realist).

a reply to: Freeborn

Why is it inevitable that there will be another referendum on Scottish independence so soon after one being held?

Europe's economy is going down, maybe not down to like it was in the 1930's but down far enough for the SNP to rally people around for a common cause. So I would say in the next five years another referendum might be held, this also depends on whether or not oil prices rise back up to $100 barrel again, giving voters the confidence that Scotland's economy will be somewhat stable.

a reply to: anxiouswens

On December 29, 1845, Texas was annexed into the United States.
tshaonline.org...

For many proud Texans, that has come to be viewed as a horrible mistake because now, for all practical intents and purposes, Texas is "stuck" with the US. Now, there's a myth circulating to the effect that part of the Annexation documents gave Texas the right to secede from the Union, but its just a myth. You can read about it here:
www.slate.com...

Take it from one who's lost their freedom of choice, if this is a chance for Brits to remain independent, take it. Once this window closes, it will never reopen and you might find yourselves with German troops finally in your towns to preserve the Union! When that happens, its all over.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

The reason (everyone else) I replied to this post is because it is typical of the attitude the anti EU folks have. Lots of anger and no substance. Angry about things that don't actual exist or happen. Nothing substantial just rants. "We want our sovreignty back" is just a rant when not backed up with an example.

What a brilliant bit of text. You've nailed the majority of the discourse on the subject. Patriotism over common sense. Strong words, no substance. Yet the subject rattles on.

Being honest about your vote will lose you credence in public forums, especially if you've got the balls to go against the media (readers: don't forget who owns most of the media our eyes and ears receive) and support Corbyn.

I'll end with another quote from your post:

The vast majority of the legislation we abide by is trade related because surprise surprise trading goods without having rules on what X "is" is fricking daft. Even China has to abide by EU trade rules in order to sell stuff in the EU (didn't the out campaign mention that). Human rights! well thank god we have them. people haven't a clue what this means for them and what protections they have.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Cameron and co sold you a pup. Vote for me and we promise we will leave Europe...You fell for the Lies. The UK has more to lose than gain leaving Europe.

Cameron never, ever said vote for me and we promise we will leave Europe. What he did say - and he's been the only PM or even major political party leader to do so - was vote for the conservatives and we will have a referendum - big difference, but I know your pride won't like that.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Well, like I said, I didn't expect everyone to agree. They are my reasons and are personal to me and I'll thank you for backing off - the tone of your post is acerbic. Whether you think they are nonsensical or not has no relevance to my thinking. I can't control what our government does or doesn't do other than vote. Or become Guy Fawkes II.

PS

Where in my post did I mention border control?

PPS

Where in my post did I mention Scotland independence?

PPPS

You appear to be answering my post hence the PS's. Or were you attacking ATS replies on this thread in general?

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Cameron and co sold you a pup. Vote for me and we promise we will leave Europe...You fell for the Lies. The UK has more to lose than gain leaving Europe.

Cameron never, ever said vote for me and we promise we will leave Europe. What he did say - and he's been the only PM or even major political party leader to do so - was vote for the conservatives and we will have a referendum - big difference, but I know your pride won't like that.

Yes but I don't think he expected the people would vote us out which was a niaive position on his part. Miliband new that the people would vote out and that is why they shyed away from a ref. Cameron thinks that by addressing the
benefits that they will appease the voters to vote in. He is kidding himself because its not just about benefits but jobs, school places, healthcare, housing, safety and more.

UK voters will vote out I am sure!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
Cameron and co sold you a pup. Vote for me and we promise we will leave Europe...You fell for the Lies. The UK has more to lose than gain leaving Europe.

Cameron never, ever said vote for me and we promise we will leave Europe. What he did say - and he's been the only PM or even major political party leader to do so - was vote for the conservatives and we will have a referendum - big difference, but I know your pride won't like that.

Yes but I don't think he expected the people would vote us out which was a niaive position on his part. Miliband new that the people would vote out and that is why they shyed away from a ref. Cameron thinks that by addressing the
benefits that they will appease the voters to vote in. He is kidding himself because its not just about benefits but jobs, school places, healthcare, housing, safety and more.

UK voters will vote out I am sure!

Think what your like, that's your prerogative, I was pointing out that the comment he ever said 'vote for me if you want to leave Europe' is wrong.

originally posted by: anxiouswens
In saying that I dont believe the UK is democratic enough with the present voting system. Its either Labour or Conservatives hence why they dont really listen to the people who put them there. Its just like a constant game of ping pong where no government is held accountable until they swap again and each blames the other. I am sick of the cycle. To really get them to sit up and act for the people who put them there they need to be took out of their comfort zones and really work for the people. I believe we will only gey this by a new system, it would also encourage more to vote

With regards to EU it definitely isnt a democracy more like a dictatorship from the in crowd!.a reply to: Scouse100

You're right, in a true democracy, there would be no need for opposing parties representing different ideologies. This is what we should be striving for. I guess the major hurdle would (still) be trying to stop manipulation by the elite via the media etc...

I'll be voting leave.

Cameron achieved nothing.

What he has come back with has the potential of being ''watered down'' even more in the coming weeks. If we can't achieve reform at this crucial point what chance have we got in the future?

I also don't like the prospect of having Turkey in the EU.

We can do better than this!

originally posted by: crazyewok
I’m half welch so no I’m not calling them all idiots. Though I do quotation the intelligence of anyone that wants to remain in a disaster like the EU.

That will be the half that cant spell I'll take it??

Its Welsh .... Sorry I couldn't help it!

We should not leave our home countries. We should fight for them. Maybe others run from their home countries because they feel they have nothing worth fighting for.

We do. But fight it in the way we know how. With votes, and maybe a few laws will need some tweaking, to allow for self protection.

eta: You guys are going to figure this out. You always do, so don't run from it -- confront it.

I don't give a f.. as long as the bits of paper in my pocket buy me stuff. The queens head, don't make me laugh. Let me pull this paper out of my pocket :
Blue Note - Picture of Lord Jay with a wig on the front and Culzean castle on the back.
Brown Note - Robert Burns on the front and Edinburgh old town on the back
Purple Note - Robert the Bruce on the front and New lanark on the back



Then there's the "unelected" EU commission....well hate to break it to you folks but the UK government is run by a cabinet and last time I checked not one single position in the cabinet even the PM, was ever voted for directly by anybody. We vote for MP's and the leader of the party with the most MP's appoints his/her cabinet. The EU Commission has members appointed, one from each country, who then have a vote of approval by the MEP's (who we vote for). What do people expect? Every single position in every single department every time it changes to go to a national vote ?!?!?!?!?!? never happens here, totally unworkable, so why the bitching?

These two points stand out as particularly false.
Being in the Euro is more than just what notes you spend down the pub. Ask the Greeks, the Portugese, The Spanish.


Now the bigger lie. Cabinet ministers in the UK are directly elected by us, the people. They are all MP's . They may be picked by the PM and his team, but unless we elect them in the first place, they don't get into the cabinet.

The EU council of ministers is NOT comprised of people elected by us, the people. They are chosen in secret without any input from us.
Sure, The MEPs may have a vote, but that has as much bearing on us as how our local MP votes in the commons, they follow the party whip.

So is it out or in?

I'm voting out!!!

originally posted by: RP2SticksOfDynamite
So is it out or in?

I'm voting out!!!

I'm voting in. If you work in manufacturing then I can't see how or why you can vote out. We need to stay in the club.

a reply to: anxiouswens

The Human Rights laws and environmental laws being implemented by Brussel are far superior to our own they are doing what our own government refuses to do..