Running list of Anti-Muslim Acts

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The debate is being taken from us. There is nothing we can do about this because the media is telling us what we want to think, regardless of whether we want to think it or not.

As a person I can not say that I disagree with Islam as an ideology within the context of my reality and my world because...I just can't. Well that is wrong, I don't want to live in a world that even allows fundamentalist ideologies, I don't want that, but yet I am forced to accept it as at least a possibility, why?

I get it, in that I understand what is happening. I don't get it in that I don't understand why.

a reply to: Jonjonj

The pen is mightier than the sword. Use your pen, use your words. It is your speech they fear, use it well and wisely. Don't allow anyone to tell you to keep silent. Stand up now, when they want to silence you is when you need to speak the loudest.

The more pressure that we put to bear on media to report the truth and not cover it all up, the more pressure we put on Muslims themselves to get their act together and either fight extremism or all of us, the faster Muslims themselves will work to resolve this peaceably in their own communities.

Until then, we speak, we write, we use what is in our ability to use.

originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: Jonjonj

The pen is mightier than the sword. Use your pen, use your words. It is your speech they fear, use it well and wisely. Don't allow anyone to tell you to keep silent. Stand up now, when they want to silence you is when you need to speak the loudest.

The more pressure that we put to bear on media to report the truth and not cover it all up, the more pressure we put on Muslims themselves to get their act together and either fight extremism or all of us, the faster Muslims themselves will work to resolve this peaceably in their own communities.

Until then, we speak, we write, we use what is in our ability to use.

You do realise that the saying "The pen is mightier than the sword" refers to politics as opposed to weapons? Who holds the pen in this fight? It surely is not anybody that I know.

a reply to: Jonjonj

The English words "The pen is mightier than the sword" were first written by novelist and playwright Edward Bulwer-Lytton in 1839, in his historical play Cardinal Richelieu.

Richelieu, chief minister to King Louis XIII, discovers a plot to kill him, but as a priest he is unable to take up arms against his enemies.

His page, Francois, points out: But now, at your command are other weapons, my good Lord.

Richelieu agrees: The pen is mightier than the sword... Take away the sword; States can be saved without it!

www.bbc.com...


At our command are other weapons. Someone without authority to fight, can always write.

a reply to: Kitana

My point being that not only the pen, but the sword have been and are being blunted on the altar of political correctness.

a reply to: Jonjonj

All I am saying is stop being politically correct. To me, the truth is worth the cost, because only in full knowledge of truth, can anything ever be resolved. Seriously, I would go to jail over speaking the truth. We cannot fix anything if we neither know about the problem nor are allowed to speak about the problem. Nothing will ever be resolved until it is brought to the full light of day.

For this resolution, it is worth it to me to go to jail or face condemnation of people. It does not matter this is too important. What we face is too serious to brush under the rug or be afraid of what anyone will think of us for speaking the truth.

a reply to: Kitana

Ok, I clearly misunderstand your definition of politically correct. I leave what I have said as a reference to what I believe though.

a reply to: Jonjonj

okay.. did I misunderstand you? Because I am now unclear on your meaning then...?

a reply to: Jonjonj

The debate is being taken by both the pc left and the extemeist right. Those are the two points of view most commonly spewed.

Either Muslims are all savages and rapists or the are not rapists or savages. Truth is most people don't have a clue about the real situation as is evident in this thread.

Moat people dont know say Jordan has taken about 2 million refugees and are trying to promote a moderate form of Islam. Moat people don't know prior to the Syrian war woman and men went to school together. We're in parliament together etc.


Them the far left completely ignored that there are entire nations of savage monsters in power that promote subjugation. That rape isn't even a crime. That it's not OK to accept multiculturalism at the cost of human rights.

The thing other than the pen needed is an education.

Nobody is fixing this problem without propping up moderate Islam and protecting the reformists.

he ran with his tail between his legs real fast. Krazy everyone can see through your false equivalencies!

a reply to: luthier

Look. All I am doing is speaking the truth. I use valid research for all my information. I am not, extremist right because we need to be careful.

If you want to know how moderate Jordan is, see Jordan's population who want sharia:

www.pewforum.org...

Now, it is their views that the clear majority want sharia law, that the majority want it applied to all people in their country of any faith, that many want the death penalty applied for apostasy, and stoning to death for adultery.

To us, these are very extreme beliefs. Think about that some.

nvm

a reply to: Kitana

In many ways I can see the justification of Jihadists due to all the political intrigue, economic and cultural domination and military interventions and invasions by the Western powers of the US and Europe. If we disregard the years of fighting to prevent Islam from taking all of Europe and the Christian/Muslim conflict that has been running for 1,300 years now but just look at the last 200 years the Arabic world has been largely at the mercy of the West. So long as we have troops occupying Muslim land and drones attacking villagers Jihad will go on.

Removing our offenses would give the opportunity for moderate Muslims to become the vast majority. They need time to heal before their hatred of us will simmer down. If I were a Muslim Arab today I would probably view the West as war mongering criminals and culturally degenerates with little regard for God too. When all we see reported are the beheadings, honor killing and terror attack it is easy to depict all Muslims as primitive and violent - it is the extremes that are reported and remembered. That works from their viewpoint as well - it is our worst behaviors that makes the biggest impression on them.

The other way of fixing this problem is war.
We either all work towards solutions or end up creating Hell on Earth,

originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: Jonjonj

okay.. did I misunderstand you? Because I am now unclear on your meaning then...?

I see nothing wrong with defending a point of view as long as an opposing point of view is accepted. Once the opposite point of view is disregarded using insult and shame i.e. calling "Islamophobe" for no other reason than the fact that a person disagrees with your point then that is just wrong.

It is weak.

I believe that any debate regarding immigration and the detrimental effects it is having have been ignored and more, stifled, by people who claim the moral high ground just because they claim that they are speaking for us morally.

It insults me.

originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: Jonjonj


Richelieu agrees: The pen is mightier than the sword... Take away the sword; States can be saved without it!

www.bbc.com...


At our command are other weapons. Someone without authority to fight, can always write.

I wouldn't recommend taking on ISIS fighters with a ballpoint pen.
You'll find out their pen has much longer range than yours.

originally posted by: Kitana
a reply to: luthier

Look. All I am doing is speaking the truth. I use valid research for all my information. I am not, extremist right because we need to be careful.

If you want to know how moderate Jordan is, see Jordan's population who want sharia:

www.pewforum.org...

Now, it is their views that the clear majority want sharia law, that the majority want it applied to all people in their country of any faith, that many want the death penalty applied for apostasy, and stoning to death for adultery.

To us, these are very extreme beliefs. Think about that some.

Really. That study is your proof?

Why don't you read who and how many were surveyed.

Please.

Why don't you look at their laws and compare them to Saudia Arabia.

Maybe look at the fact that reform takes a while. The king of Jordan and his wife are fairly moderate.

Now look at Syria. And their laws. Compare them to Saudia Arabia. The country the west supports.

If either Jordan or Syria were so radical they wouldn't allow women to go to school. Baby steps. It took until 1972 that marital rape was a crime in the US. Things take time. They are moving in the right direction.

nvm

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I agree with removing ourselves completely from the middle east. These are their fights - even when they sat and begged for our help and us to come in, we should never ever ever have gone. THAT was our governments stupidity.

I would like to see us leave but when we do leave, they will have massive civil war now because the restraining dictators who kept the extremists in check are gone. We took them out, or very close to it. Syria can recover because Assad is still there, Iraq will take a very long time for them, Libya a long time ect.

IF we pull out, we cannot go back. We cannot feel sorry for them, we cannot take them into our countries. We have to harden our hearts and force them to deal with their own nations, none of their problems will be solved without them standing up for themselves, and us taking their moderate voices out of their countries and into ours simply makes their nations worse, not better. They need their moderate voices.

As for who is here, we deal with what comes there. We will find some more terror attacks over the years pop up here and there, but probably no different than now for us anyway. As for the rest who are here, we need open and honest discussions. Extremism is on the rise, there is no denying that and between us and them we need open dialogue and honesty, and a working together attitude to actually solve the problems which exist inside our countries.

In the end, it is very possible. But not without Muslims, Muslims themselves are the main part, and right now, all they do is hide their extremists and make excuses for them. So they have to make some decisions themselves. I see more effort today than ever before. But still, it falls so short of the mark.

The more of them who speak out, the better their communities will be here. It is a very serious problem, and needs to be addressed. That Muslim female imam, they called her an islamophobe for speaking out against extremism and she was bombarded with death threats and everything else. They have a very long way to go, and no one can do that but them.

Removing ourselves from their countries is not the only problem, the problem in the end, really is the religion itself. That is something only they can change their views on, and right now, I see no sign of that happening. I see the ever increasing rise of extremism since the 70's as a very dangerous trend, one that once upon a time, we thought we would not see. Then the flood gates opened. And it wasn't foreign policy that was the problem, it is the threat to their way of life and the westernization of their youth at the time. We went through the sexual revolution in the 60's and they went through the Islamic equivalent at the same time.. except that we won our battle, and they lost theirs in spades and reverted back to a time more closely resembling the dark ages.

Only they can resolve that one, until then, there is no point of allowing them come here. Their desired culture has no equivalency in the west.

a reply to: luthier

The Pew Research Center has an excellent reputation for being fair, accurate, and reliable. It is nonpartisan, nonprofit, and employs high quality researchers who generally use the best possible practices. It is a poll, I will grant you, but it takes in a sampling and generally stays reasonably accurate within 5% in most cases.

You can disagree, but without knowing the ruler or the laws, you don't know why one country may appear more moderate over another. Such as in Syria there used to be religious freedom and Christians and minorities in government as well as Muslims. Yet, Assad made it illegal in that country to be a member of the Muslim Brotherhood. If you were found the be a member of the Brotherhood, it was a death sentence. That was how he kept extremism reigned in and freedom for all the people there.

Each country is different, but if you want to know why one has sharia, and one has freedom, then you look at their leaders and you will always find out why. Right now Saudia Arabia is going through a huge movement - its actually quite amazing - Muslims are leaving Islam in what appears to be droves, many there are announcing themselves as atheists and standing against sharia in that country and demanding freedom.

Each country is different - but you must look at the leaders as much as the people. The two above mentioned countries have huge disparities between the government and the people living there, as you see they are not always in agreement. I don't know Jordan as much as other middle eastern countries, so I will rely on the reputation of pew as it is excellent.