Yahweh is not the Most High God, Israel in ancient Canaan and henotheism

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: chr0naut

Read the op its right there. You see, many bibles have translations that obscure that passage beyond recognition, which is like the smoking gun because why would they do it other than to hide the truth. So if your bible doesn't say that get a new bible your reading a deliberately mistranslated edition.

I have read the OP. It is based on false notions and is incorrect.

I have explained why the OP is wrong and have given corroborating reasons, references and links.

Neither you, nor the OP have been able to offer one shred of evidence that supports your notion or refutes my replies.

Rasalghul, you are the OP, under a different handle.

I have encountered you as: gnosisfaith, essene616, 33Iam666, 369elyon, areyousirius360 & Rasalghul.

All of these accounts started on ATS very recently and jumped right in trolling the 'Religion, Faith and Theology' forum, almost exclusively.

All make statements to which they never seem to have any evidential support, when challenged.

There are great similarities in writing style and themes of posts.

Essene616 made a confession to be using the same device as gnosisfaith to explain why the IP address was the same.

You have been banned previously for this.

Stop it.

a reply to: chr0naut
Oh so because I don't agree with you I'm a troll? It's not my fault you got brainwashed and can't accept the truth. I am well aware of El and Yah being seperate beings in ancient Canaan/Israel. So now because I agree with the op I'm a troll. Could you be anymore of a stereotypically defeated Christian? Your see through bro.

a reply to: chr0naut
You have terrible comprehension problems. The bible itself says Yahweh was a son of God. But your obviously oblivious and bias. I understand why you would want to protect your faith, but when the truth is in front of your face, your now living a lie.

I'm not arguing with you. You're too far into this monotheistic myth that Israel was always that way. You know they weren't.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: chr0naut
You have terrible comprehension problems. The bible itself says Yahweh was a son of God. But your obviously oblivious and bias. I understand why you would want to protect your faith, but when the truth is in front of your face, your now living a lie.

I'm not arguing with you. You're too far into this monotheistic myth that Israel was always that way. You know they weren't.

Again, please provide some support for this: a Bible verse reference, an archaeological artifact, an academic paper, anything. You never know, I might believe you if you could prove me wrong.

Until then, repeating a falsehood does not make true.

You wouldn't believe it if Jesus himself rode on a donkey all the way to your home to tell you himself.

FYI I have read the whole thread and you are arguing from a bias perspective. If you want to believe that the ancient Israelites were worshipping Yahweh, or that Yahweh is El Elyon go ahead.

You've seen the verse, you can't inherit something from yourself, i.e. Yahweh, per the Deutoronomist (scholars name for the author), is ONE OF the Sons of El.

Now compare all the verses in all the translations and tell me that this FACT wasn't obscured to make it look like they are the same. If you can't see or get that, go look at the Masoretic texts and it says instead of Sons of God, sons of Israel. Now tell me something isn't fishy.

Last El was known as the Bull. Jews who worshipped the golden bull angered Yahweh something fierce. I wonder why that could be? Your going to say it's because it's idol worship that he gets mad. I say he gets mad because he is a jealous god who wants to be worshipped AS the Most High God, the Bull El.

originally posted by: Rasalghul


You wouldn't believe it if Jesus himself rode on a donkey all the way to your home to tell you himself.

FYI I have read the whole thread and you are arguing from a bias perspective. If you want to believe that the ancient Israelites were worshipping Yahweh, or that Yahweh is El Elyon go ahead.

You've seen the verse, you can't inherit something from yourself, i.e. Yahweh, per the Deutoronomist (scholars name for the author), is ONE OF the Sons of El.

Now compare all the verses in all the translations and tell me that this FACT wasn't obscured to make it look like they are the same. If you can't see or get that, go look at the Masoretic texts and it says instead of Sons of God, sons of Israel. Now tell me something isn't fishy.

Last El was known as the Bull. Jews who worshipped the golden bull angered Yahweh something fierce. I wonder why that could be? Your going to say it's because it's idol worship that he gets mad. I say he gets mad because he is a jealous god who wants to be worshipped AS the Most High God, the Bull El.

The Masoretic and Septuagint versions are verified to be accurate to the original texts and we can tell by their close compliance to the Dead Sea Scrolls which were verifiably from hundreds of years before Jesus incarnation.

The direct translations from the Seputuagint, Masotetic and Dead Sea Scrolls versions do not say that YHWH was the son of God.

The "Deuteronomist" is the name given to one of five theorized authors/redactors of the Hebrew scriptures under the Documentary hypothesis. The DH is no longer considered valid, partly due to more recent archaeological findings (such as the DSS) and also due to less biased computerized analysis. The current theory has a single author and a single priestly redactor - no Deuteronomist.

a reply to: chr0naut

And? If one says sons of Israel and the other Sons of God, one is wrong. It's the Masoretic that's wrong. But you don't seem to care.

You just spewed out some ish to distract from the point.

Yahweh is not El. You can't inherit something from yourself. The fact that NIV and other English versions translated that verse in Deuteronomy so as to obscure the truth should be obvious. The fact that you're oblivious to this tells me you're a christian, but not a bible student.

a reply to: chr0naut

All you are doing is nit picking at my comments. The Deuteronomist is a real term for whoever wrote Deuteronomy. We know it wasn't Moses even though people still believe it was.

The same thing is happening here. We know that El and Yahweh weren't originally the same God. But people still believe they were.

I rest my case.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: chr0naut

All you are doing is nit picking at my comments. The Deuteronomist is a real term for whoever wrote Deuteronomy. We know it wasn't Moses even though people still believe it was.

The same thing is happening here. We know that El and Yahweh weren't originally the same God. But people still believe they were.

I rest my case.

There is only an original writer and a priestly redactor. No Elohist, Yahwist or Deuteronomists.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: chr0naut

All you are doing is nit picking at my comments. The Deuteronomist is a real term for whoever wrote Deuteronomy. We know it wasn't Moses even though people still believe it was.

The same thing is happening here. We know that El and Yahweh weren't originally the same God. But people still believe they were.

I rest my case.

You still haven't produced any evidence. You have no case.

I rest MY case.

a reply to: chr0naut

That's totally false. I see since you're doing that nit pick and distract tactic you are starting to get it. My point was people USED TO think Moses actually wrote the first 5 books. We know that he didn't, but people still believe it.

It's the same as what your doing, just a different subject.

Scholars came up with the term Deuteronomist because nobody knows who really wrote it.

Why are you clinging so hard to worship of the baby killer and mad war mongering sorry excuse for a god named Yahweh?

You can worship El and be following the bible without worshipping the Hitler of gods. Yahweh is disgusting.

originally posted by: Rasalghul
a reply to: chr0naut

That's totally false. I see since you're doing that nit pick and distract tactic you are starting to get it. My point was people USED TO think Moses actually wrote the first 5 books. We know that he didn't, but people still believe it.

It's the same as what your doing, just a different subject.

Scholars came up with the term Deuteronomist because nobody knows who really wrote it.

Why are you clinging so hard to worship of the baby killer and mad war mongering sorry excuse for a god named Yahweh?

You can worship El and be following the bible without worshipping the Hitler of gods. Yahweh is disgusting.

Elohim caused the flood which wiped out all human and animal life except those on the ark. Wouldn't that be more like genocide than wiping out the first born from a few Egyptians?

I'm surprised that you could be so far off the mark in your allocation of blame.

a reply to: chr0naut

Elohim is hebrew for gods. Plural. ElElyon didn't cause the flood because there is no one god named Elohim. It's used today in Hebrew and Mormonism as a name for god, but it actually is a plural word. Very fishy.

a reply to: chr0naut
Nitpicking at my comments again. You ignore everything and have nothing good to say because deep down you know it's true. Classic Christian ignorance.

a reply to: chr0naut

All your doing is trying to prove what you believe to yourself. And trying, without success, to prove me wrong.

So all you can do is get mad.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: chr0naut
Your embarrassing yourself. El means God whenever it's used. God is different than lord because El is Baal/Yahweh's father. It's fascinating how hard you will try to disprove actual truth just to defend a war criminal named Yahweh when you could just worship the kind Elyon. Psychologically fascinating.

Why do you believe that El is Baal/YHWH's father? On what do you base your belief? Show some actual evidence!

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! YHWH is our Elohim, YHWH is one!" Written by Moses, right there in the Torah. How blatant.

"Obey, O Israel! YHWH of our Elohim(National Pantheon), YHWH first!" - Deuteronomy 6:4
"And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of Elohei(the National God of) Yisra'El shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon of our Elohim(National Pantheon)." - 1 Samuel 5:7
"For thy Maker is thine Ba'al; YHWH Tzva’os(Yahweh of Armies) is his name; and was thy Redeemer O Holy Israel; Elohei Kol HaAretz(the National God of all the land) shall he be called." - Isaiah 54:5

originally posted by: ElohAraphel

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: areyousirius360
a reply to: chr0naut
Your embarrassing yourself. El means God whenever it's used. God is different than lord because El is Baal/Yahweh's father. It's fascinating how hard you will try to disprove actual truth just to defend a war criminal named Yahweh when you could just worship the kind Elyon. Psychologically fascinating.

Why do you believe that El is Baal/YHWH's father? On what do you base your belief? Show some actual evidence!

Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! YHWH is our Elohim, YHWH is one!" Written by Moses, right there in the Torah. How blatant.

"Obey, O Israel! YHWH of our Elohim(National Pantheon),

Repeatedly, throughout the scriptures, Elohim is used as a description of an obviously singular and monotheistic God, not as a "National Pantheon". When it is used as a plural, it is always in referring to the gods of other nations.

YHWH first!"

The word that you have translated as "first" is 'echad' which means the ordinal number one, so much so that "echad echad" means the number eleven.

- Deuteronomy 6:4
"And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of Elohei(the National God of) Yisra'El shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon of our Elohim(National Pantheon)." - 1 Samuel 5:7
"For thy Maker is thine Ba'al; YHWH Tzva’os(Yahweh of Armies) is his name; and was thy Redeemer O Holy Israel; Elohei Kol HaAretz(the National God of all the land) shall he be called." - Isaiah 54:5

Get a better translation, Padawan.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Padawan ElohAraphel

- Deuteronomy 6:4
"And when the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of Elohei(the National God of) Yisra'El shall not abide with us: for his hand is sore upon us, and upon Dagon of our Elohim(National Pantheon)." - 1 Samuel 5:7
"For thy Maker is thine Ba'al; YHWH Tzva’os(Yahweh of Armies) is his name; and was thy Redeemer O Holy Israel; Elohei Kol HaAretz(the National God of all the land) shall he be called." - Isaiah 54:5

Get a better translation, Padawan.

Bwahahaha priceless.

Coomba98