Well, of course ATS has a lot of liberal members!

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Unless you think that words like “perverted,” are terms of endearment.

This one can be depending on how it's used.

a reply to: xuenchen

Whatever.

Are those deadly?

No. No, they are not.
Alcohol poisoning is deadly.
My childrens' grandfather (on their dad's side) died in a hotel room 1000s of miles away from home when his kids were all under 21.......

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Gryphon66

Unless you think that words like “perverted,” are terms of endearment.

This one can be depending on how it's used.

Word.

originally posted by: DanDanDat
That is correct the constitution doesn't have a single word about marriage; that it speaks to marriage at all is just an interpretation.

Another interpretation could be that because the constitution doesn't have a single word about marriage in it makes an issue for states to decide on their own.

But the constitution DOES mention that states cannot make laws that don't provide equal treatment under the law. A gay marriage ban violates the 14th amendment, as it's a state law that does not provide for equal treatment for all its citizens.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Being active in discussion and debate makes a person more informed, and more likely to come to an agreement, in my opinion. I don't know if they've been banned or just keep quiet but I really don't see things like racial tension here on Ats.

originally posted by: LSU0408
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

I counted 5 anti-Conservative threads, and 2 anti-liberal threads on the front page. Just letting you know. And scrolling through on an average day will get you several anti-Trump threads. Not sure where you're seeing what you're seeing.

Over the last few months this site has been full of G.O.P supporters, I'm surprised you haven't noticed it.

Maybe the Conservatives aren't so liberal with their stars and flags?

a reply to: kaylaluv

Yes I know and there is no argument they can come up with that makes any sense to me and I've heard them all. Because it changed nothing at all. Yet some people claim everything from it destroying the sanctity of all straight marriage to destroying families or turning married men gay and women into lesbians or corrupting children to it being the cause of natural disasters and even Armageddon!!

Yet in reality, it changed nothing. Talk about delusional. Some folks are just too crazy to believe.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: DanDanDat

We could go into philosophy here - depicting every kind act as selfish and the like, I mean a person feels good when they help someone else, right? We could also discuss how everything in this world is perspective, therefore every single detail of this world is only the vantage point of that one person and truth could not ultimately be known....

I don't follow that line of thinking, daily, though.

My personal beliefs concerning the life of others is that men are free agents. We have agency, we can make choices, we can choose the way we live. I suppose you could say my thoughts on this matter would influence my decision making because I believe in making as few laws as possible.

I never would have made a law supporting gay marriage because it's am obstruction of living a free life to have ever assumed that gay marriage was against the law, in my opinion. Letting freedom reign is making as few laws as possible. Laws should only be needed to ensure freedom is not obstructed.. As in, ending or harming a life for instance.

I don’t think my argument is that lofty that it belong side by side with philosophical schools of thought of free will vs life being perspective. I think it can be brought very easily to the real world.

Turning away from Gay Marriage (as I admit it’s harder to defend those who oppose it) let’s take Abortion as a point of belief. I believe I read (and correct me if I am wrong) that you said you do not agree with it personally but would not deny the choice to others? As for me I don’t have a problem with abortion personally, my wife and I have aborted a pregnancy when we were younger and I would make the same decision again.

But I can easily put myself in the shoes of those who would not agree with me on the subject. I can certainly sympathize with the idea that if I held the belief “that life began at conception” that it would be my duty as a citizen of this society to speak up for those “people” who were being murdered before they are born. If I truly held the belief that a fetus was a person; I would have no choice but to support legislation that stopped the murder of innocent people; anything less would make me complicit in those murders and I don’t think I could live with that.

I don’t hold the belief that a fetus in the early stages of pregnancy is a person; so I don’t have a problem supporting laws that give people the freedom to have their own opinion on the subject. But I come to that support because of my beliefs; I can’t prove one way or the other if a fetus is a person (no one else can either). But I can’t accept that those who do think that a fetus is a person are being ignorant because they want to legislate the practices of abortion … that is EXACTLY what they should be doing.

a reply to: mOjOm

I actually had one guy on here tell me that gay married couples adopt children so they can train them for having sex with once they are of age.

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: DBCowboy

This would be a very boring site if everyone just said "agree to disagree", don'tcha think?

Yeah, I suppose.

But in real life, that's what people do.

That's what I do with my relatives, because I have to be with them during visits/holidays, etc - or with my work colleagues because it makes it easier to work with them. But this site is for discussion and debate - that is one of the major reasons this site exists. Just sayin'...

That's one of the problems with discussion boards and everyone being online.

I am trying to debate as if we're face-to-face instead of sparring on the web. I'm trying to treat people as if we're discussing at a bar. It has "tempered" my remarks and responses to a degree, though I still fail spectacularly on occasion.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: Serdgiam

Being active in discussion and debate makes a person more informed, and more likely to come to an agreement, in my opinion.

I cant really say I agree with that as a blanket statement. It depends on far too many factors to label all discourse as productive. I think it might be indicative of passion, or being talkative, but not much else.

I'd even go so far as saying someone who perpetually debates can become significantly less likely to arrive at an agreement, simply out of habit.

Many discussions also revolve around asserting who is "right" first and foremost, rather than any attempt to work together despite differing views.

If we are talking about an individual who intends to learn, grow, and work together without conversion though.. I'd say your observation is spot on. There isn't a whole lot of that going on that I see.

I don't know if they've been banned or just keep quiet but I really don't see things like racial tension here on Ats.

I might define it differently, but I see plenty of it from both sides. I don't see much open KKK-style ideals though, thankfully.

a reply to: mOjOm

In fact, Obergefell did, in a roundabout way, contribute to the destruction of marriage ... for example Alabama means to do away entirely with legal marriage just so gays can't be. Other states are doing teh same thing.

They'd rather get rid of marriage than share.

a reply to: DanDanDat

I happen to hold a position that's contrary.

I believe abortion is used in some cases to save the life of the mother. Sometimes both physically and psychologically.

That being said, I advocate for that.. Saving a woman's life. Rather than telling her to go through with her high risk pregnancy.

She also has the right to privacy,. I have no business knowing why she wants an abortion. Her reasons are not for me to know.. I know abortion is valid as a life saving operation, and I know people have their right to privacy. Therefore I interpret it as needing to be legal.

Third term can be debated, but that's not often what people are arguing in the first place, anyways.

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: DBCowboy

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: DBCowboy

This would be a very boring site if everyone just said "agree to disagree", don'tcha think?

Yeah, I suppose.

But in real life, that's what people do.

That's what I do with my relatives, because I have to be with them during visits/holidays, etc - or with my work colleagues because it makes it easier to work with them. But this site is for discussion and debate - that is one of the major reasons this site exists. Just sayin'...

That's one of the problems with discussion boards and everyone being online.

I am trying to debate as if we're face-to-face instead of sparring on the web. I'm trying to treat people as if we're discussing at a bar. It has "tempered" my remarks and responses to a degree, though I still fail spectacularly on occasion.

I'm trying to teach myself to do the same thing. I backspace and erase whenever I type the word "you." LOL.

And, it is hard to stop a certain kind of response, but, I agree that we all need to learn/relearn how to communicate on the internet.

In short, don't feel rained on and good luck!

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: mOjOm

In fact, Obergefell did, in a roundabout way, contribute to the destruction of marriage ... for example Alabama means to do away entirely with legal marriage just so gays can't be. Other states are doing teh same thing.

They'd rather get rid of marriage than share.

Well that does show the level of intelligence of those living in Alabama doesn't it. They refuse to share something that isn't even theirs to start with by getting rid of it for everyone including themselves. Genius.

Maybe in the end it will be a good thing though. That kind of thinking may have come about after all those generations of men marrying their sister. Who knows.

a reply to: mOjOm

(literally Laughing Out Loud)

Yeah. That's a fair point.

I wish they would listen to the words of their Jesus though ... "act toward others as you would have them act towards you."

Or something like that ... not my strong suit.

a reply to: mOjOm

WHOa whoa whoa.....


7,000 attended Bernie's rally.....

a reply to: Gryphon66

And that's why I respect this site having a thorough T&C agreement. It keeps this site from denigrating to you-tube-like comments. You-tube is not discussion and debate - it's just nothing but cussing people out and telling them to kill themselves.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: Gryphon66

And that's why I respect this site having a thorough T&C agreement. It keeps this site from denigrating to you-tube-like comments. You-tube is not discussion and debate - it's just nothing but cussing people out and telling them to kill themselves.

I do too ... when I'm not getting in trouble myself ...

#sheepishgrin

a reply to: deadlyhope

Your thread is is spot on. s&F.

It all appears very logically thought out to me and a testament to the diversity here.