Woman says she was feet away when shots killed Oregon occupier Finicum.

Bottom line, he had to know that if they didn't get past that road block that if he did ANYTHING other than follow the orders of the officers, or made any sudden movement that would even slightly imply he was going for a weapon, that he would be dropped immediately.

He made a decision (based on his prior statements that he would never be taken to jail) to NOT follow those instructions. So either he was going for a weapon, or he wanted it to look that way. Regardless, he fulfilled his prior promise not to be taken into custody, and he'll get to be a martyr in the eyes of a societal microcosm for at least a few weeks.

Personally, I think they should have moved in on that group weeks ago, and tear gased and stun grenaded the hell out of them. Get them all into custody and charged as the criminals they are. Hopefully, this joker is the only one who has to die before it's all over.

originally posted by: mazzroth
There's a pretty obvious theme running in the USA, don't challenge the Government over its authority to rule else it will come down on you like a freight train. If you decide to challenge it then expect to get executed..its pretty simple.

People challenge the government daily. They simply do it legally, and everybody gets to live. Heck, nobody even gets arrested. When you challenge by committing crimes (regardless of perceived altruism) and ultimately try to speed past a road block after illegally taking over and illegally occupying a government building, trespassing, damaging government property, a making what would normally be considered terrorist threats and actions, well then you get yourself arrested at best, shot dead if needed.

It's pretty simple...

a reply to: dragonridr

Also was it not one of the women who on the first night reported that Finnicum was on his knees in surrender when he was shot. That was one of the first rumors to emerge from the whole thing, before the video was available.

Yes I read that don't think she realized video was going to be released.

It was Nevada Assemblywoman Michelle Fiore who stated that Ammon Bundy's wife, Lisa, was told that by Ammon when he called his wife from the back of the police car.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: TerryMcGuire
In another thread, the other woman in that truck reported that there were a hundred shots taken at the truck as it plowed into the snow bank and that Finnicum jumped from the car to draw fire away from those in the truck. Yet this young woman makes not mention of those shots at all.

Also was it not one of the women who on the first night reported that Finnicum was on his knees in surrender when he was shot. That was one of the first rumors to emerge from the whole thing, before the video was available.

Yes I read that don't think she realized video was going to be released.

By the way here is an video I don't think many saw where it is explained what happened prior to the video that was released. Its from mark mcConnell and he tells a different story. He talks about lavoy charging law enforcement.
www.rawstory.com...

Ah,yes, Facebook Boy, the plant that helped the guys in black set them up for this ambush. The one who was released immediately so he could put it on Facebook before anyone else could tell the tale. He claimed in his title to be an eyewitness but then admitted that he wasn't but that he had been told what had happened. It is pretty obvious that he is reading from a script, even loses his place and goes back over the same words....
He was the one who convinced them that instead of using their usual protocol, traveling separately, they should all load up in two vehicles. He also attempted to get the women into his vehicle but they preferred to ride with Levoy. Victoria wasn't scheduled to be with them as she was supposed to leave earlier for the meeting in town but wasn't ready when the rest of the family left. (I'm basing this on the first interview she gave. It is posted in one of the threads here.) Ms. Cox also said that this Facebook Boy was a total jerk after the shooting, yelling at Victoria (the 18 year-old who had just arrived at the refuge late the night before) and worrying far more about his $60k Jeep than the fact that Levoy was dead on the side of the road.
I have dealt with men like Facebook Boy. They are sent in. They are very convincing if you don't actually pay attention to the things they say. If you pay attention you find big holes in their stories. He claims to have been at the refuge for three weeks but Ms. Cox and others have stated that he had arrived only three days earlier, about the time the "build-up" of forces was reported.
I'd really like to see that video run through one of the "truth or lie" programs currently in use by authorities. Supposedly, these programs can detect lies from audio files and facial expressions. That's the claim made by the manufacturers anyway.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Azureblue

I would suggest the purpose of getting her to watch the video and ask her questions is to give the prosecutors and cops time to build their story so she will be portrayed as a liar or an unreliable witness so they can completely discredit here when she goes into court.

I think you're right. I've read that article three times, and the whole thing seemed very contrived to me, I just couldn't figure out why. But I should have known better because I've seen it happen before. TV interviews will be used to discredit you in a court of law.

ETA: Oddly enough, now that I think about it, it was also a CNN interview that was used to discredit a witness... didn't work, but they sure tried.

Oddly enough, now that I think about it, it was also a CNN interview that was used to discredit a witness... didn't work, but they sure tried.

Dunno what the relevance of CNN is as Im not from the states and not seen any coverage of this event.

However, I have noticed that for many people on ATS, one side of politics are "good guys" and the other are 'bad guys' and this seems to go for the media too.

As a general lesson learned from experience over the years is that to see things in this way, is very self limiting.

a reply to: Azureblue

Dunno what the relevance of CNN is as Im not from the states and not seen any coverage of this event.

Simply that this interview/article is from CNN, and so was the example I remembered.

Makes me think twice about CNN, but you're right, everyone has their angle. No such thing as "just the facts" in news reporting any more.

a reply to: diggindirt

Ah,yes, Facebook Boy, the plant that helped the guys in black set them up for this ambush. The one who was released immediately so he could put it on Facebook before anyone else could tell the tale.

One of the first big holes that struck me was that Facebook Boy said he was making this because of what others were saying... but Victoria's statement was posted AFTER he posted his statement. I suppose he could have been referring to what Ammon told his wife in the backseat of the police car, but I thought they were separated? Taken away one per vehicle. I might be wrong about that. But in any event, he got his statement out and public long before anyone else.

Ms. Cox also said that this Facebook Boy was a total jerk after the shooting, yelling at Victoria (the 18 year-old who had just arrived at the refuge late the night before) and worrying far more about his $60k Jeep than the fact that Levoy was dead on the side of the road.

Guilty conscience getting to him? Naw... that would be conjecture (and giving him too much credit).

He claims to have been at the refuge for three weeks but Ms. Cox and others have stated that he had arrived only three days earlier, about the time the "build-up" of forces was reported.

Thank you for pinning that down. I have seen several times mentioned in news reports for how long he'd been there. That alone struck me as suspicious. He obviously wasn't part of the "old guard" so to speak.

a reply to: Boadicea

I want to tell you what I recall from testimony given. After Victoria, Ryan and Shawna were handcuffed they were eventually put into a van. After more time had passed, a larger van was brought in and they were put in that one. That van was driven to where Ammon, Mark, Ryan Payne and the guy they call Buddha (can't think of his given name) were waiting. The men were put into the big van with the others. This is when Ryan Bundy, Victoria and Shawna told the others what happened. Naturally, the three who were with LaVoy were not in a calm state while telling what happened (my assessment). After being in that van for a while, separate vehicles arrived and all were separated, one to a vehicle, and driven off.

a reply to: Sublimecraft

I am not able to star your post???

a reply to: tweetie

Thank you. I do remember them being together now -- that's when Facebook Boy was more concerned with his Jeep than Finicum, and started bullying a traumatized 18-year-old girl... my bad. Thanks for correcting me.

a reply to: beyondtruth

This person, Peter Offermann, is analyzing some of the frames of the FBI video at his blog to attempt to answer some of the questions raised about the killing of LaVoy. It's going to be on an ongoing project.

"Towards a Better World"

a reply to: tweetie
Thanks so much for posting this. It is indeed a detailed analysis. Brings clarity to the whole roadblock issue doesn't it?

It also confirms that the blurriness wasn't my video player.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: tweetie

Thank you. I do remember them being together now -- that's when Facebook Boy was more concerned with his Jeep than Finicum, and started bullying a traumatized 18-year-old girl... my bad. Thanks for correcting me.

Can you fill me in on "Facebook boy"? Is this Ammon Bundy you are referring to? Could you provide me some background on why he is a shill as you are presuming? I thought he was the individual to start this whole thing. To call attention to his cause "against" the government. Then he surrenders. This is confusing to me.

a reply to: beyondtruth

Can you fill me in on "Facebook boy"? Is this Ammon Bundy you are referring to? Could you provide me some background on why he is a shill as you are presuming? I thought he was the individual to start this whole thing. To call attention to his cause "against" the government. Then he surrenders. This is confusing to me.

"Facebook Boy," is Mark McConnell -- the one who rushed to get his non-eyewitness video on Facebook to discredit the eyewitness he knew would be singing like a canary after being released, Victoria Sharp.

As for Ammon Bundy, I don't trust him, never have.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: beyondtruth

Can you fill me in on "Facebook boy"? Is this Ammon Bundy you are referring to? Could you provide me some background on why he is a shill as you are presuming? I thought he was the individual to start this whole thing. To call attention to his cause "against" the government. Then he surrenders. This is confusing to me.

"Facebook Boy," is Mark McConnell -- the one who rushed to get his non-eyewitness video on Facebook to discredit the eyewitness he knew would be singing like a canary after being released, Victoria Sharp.

As for Ammon Bundy, I don't trust him, never have.

Thank you for clarifying.

Are they setting up the excuse to use Drones?

I got an idea that’s bizarre buy possible with these government murderers

They probably wanted them to crazily plow into that road block and kill a bunch of people.

Then that would justify there saying:

We should start using drones to take out crazies like this

Remember the San Bernardino incident just a few weeks ago where the terrorist couple was riding around in a truck…
Another outside incident they were trying to set up so eventually it would justify using drones on people.


All this seems to be them setting up a massive event where they will say

WE NEED DRONES

Just never forget 911 folks!

originally posted by: tweetie
a reply to: beyondtruth

This person, Peter Offermann, is analyzing some of the frames of the FBI video at his blog to attempt to answer some of the questions raised about the killing of LaVoy. It's going to be on an ongoing project.

"Towards a Better World"

Part 2 from Peter. I just read it. Over and over I found it odd how the sequence of images suddenly was disrupted at the key point as LaVoy was exiting his truck. Peter has taken this sequence disruption apart and believes LaVoy may have dropped his gun in the snow before walking away from his truck with his arms out wide.
Part 2

Edit: I'm looking at the frames which were messed with and I think I can see where he threw his gun in the snow. It's laying in the snow in full view, in many subsequent frames, but it's blurred too much. I've got this version on full screen, stopped at the point the truck goes into the snow bank and I'm advancing frame by frame. There's like 3 or 4 frames per second. It looks like he points to his gun in the snow at one point, too, as the trooper comes out of the woods behind him.

Video

I'm looking forward to seeing Peter's next installment and to see if I'm correct or not.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: tweetie
Thanks so much for posting this. It is indeed a detailed analysis. Brings clarity to the whole roadblock issue doesn't it?

It also confirms that the blurriness wasn't my video player.

Read Part 2!

a reply to: tweetie
Thanks. It just gets curiouser and weirder doesn't it? I'm somewhat relieved to know that it wasn't my video player that was causing all the crazy pixelization I was seeing.

originally posted by: diggindirt
a reply to: tweetie
Thanks. It just gets curiouser and weirder doesn't it? I'm somewhat relieved to know that it wasn't my video player that was causing all the crazy pixelization I was seeing.

If Peter is correct and I'm seeing what he is alluding to which I described above in my Edit, this is big. OMG.