Rejecting materialism is humanities only hope

originally posted by: DarmokAndJalad

originally posted by: onequestion
Hello. My philosophical input has been waning as of late so I decided to make a contribution.

If humanity would like to begin moving in a better direction as an entire species than we need to begin rejecting materialism and mainstream culture and get back to thinking about things that really matter like each other.

I personally believe that if we don't do that we are doomed to experience our own extinction as an inevitable probability.

We need to see the togetherness that binds us on a fundamental level and begin to live the experience of understanding that everything is one giant cosmic being living in everything everywhere.

That's the true future.

Instead of running away from the material world, wouldn't it be better to appreciate it, and not waste it as an opportunity to use it as the tool it is. A tool for refining that which each of us calls "I"?

If I reject the material, and only embrace the non-physical, that would be like trying to have only a 1-sided coin, or a wave that only crests but never troughs. The physical and non physical worlds meet in our minds, at our unique perspective. And that perspective is vital to the evolution of the universe as a whole.

So I don't reject material, I appreciate it.

Very well put. We need one to appreciate the other, without hate how could we know and learn love, etc. I think materialism, capitalism and our keeping up with the Jones' attitude is very much pounded into our way of life since day one. Trying to be better, faster, stronger all while paying little to no attention to others that may need a little help. Society's mindset is all about number one and nothing else. With that being said, society as a whole needs to mature towards fixing the current system or mature completely into a new one. The way the world is going obviously is not sustainable by any means. Once individuals realize that their current lifestyle is not sustainable they have the option to shift or stay in the same gear. Individuals must rise to the occasion and do the hard right over the easy wrong. It will take time but if people can break there attachment to their "things" and use them in a wise and mindful manner instead of letting these "things" control virtually every aspect of their lives I believe we could start seeing positive change. People need to become educated and hopefully see how certain actions are extremely detrimental to our current way of life and the foundation that we are building for the future.

materialism makes the world a better place.

The first humans were sleeping under the stars, then someone got materialistic and built a shelter. Then someone had the materialistic need for some running water and so on and so on.

The world is a lot better with people being materialistic. the mistake is judging your own worth by what you have or don't have.

To me that is the whole scarsity trap, and keeping humans down trodden.

Instead of scarsity the way off this planet is ABUNDANCE AND EQUALITY. Clean tech, high tech, wonderful culture, wonderful creation, beauty, inventions, for all, everyone, no one born into scarsity.

I' m not seeing social evolution, Im seeing social regression...

agreed. that and also war. the self-destructive societal feedback loop needs to be stopped. i'm not too hopeful it can happen though. 'will we ever learn?' etc.

I hear you and concur...it won't happen though, no matter if we start it right here, right now.

It won't happen...here's why. If you have a group of 10 hot cheerleaders who are obsessed with material posessions and wealth, and one decided they ain't getting their nails done no more...then another decides to join in, and another.

Eventually what you will end up with are 9 girls with bland, regular nails and one with super hot nalils, she'll be known as "the one with the pretty nails" which would make her feel special and probably only drive her egotism all the more.

More special than her 9 friends, who will most likely develop under-arm hair to go with their normal nails...meanwhile the one with the pretty nails is known for having the smoothest armpits....hairy-armput and bland-nail girls will most likely stop shaving their legs due to low self esteem while pretty girl pays obscene-thousand-pounds to have her hair folicles removed from her legs...

It would spiral out of control...for ever 9 regular folk there'd be a shiny, super-pretty girl with amazing nails.

It's kinda already like this, when you think about it. So it's not that I think it's a bad idea, I just don't think the end result would be as one might invisage.


ETA: Have a flag, anyway.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: seaswine

WE have to start the trend.

You cannot start something without a true goal.

Can you give a real goal that you have in mind for us "humans" ?

I have given this immense amount of thought since I was 4 that I can remember, and I can guarantee that I have not seen anyone come to the conclusions that I have.

You will have to go a hell of a lot deeper than you think, or any of the religious minded dare go, to find the answers.

I have only met one person on this entire planet who has the tools and the proper level of arrogance to even BEGIN to acknowledge the possibilities that I have seen and felt.

And when I see the roadblocks, by "THE POWERS THAT BE" I realize only one tact will work, and be successful.

You see, far beyond the scums working to control here, are layer upon layer of beings that all think they are working towards some goals, that are all harmonious.

THEY ARE ALL WRONG, NOTHING is working as originally intended, and they must be removed from the places they inhabit, to release EVERYTHING.

Nothing here on Earth, is even remotely interesting, except for the fact that the connection between physical, and non physical could be perfected.....they won't even allow that now.....so be prepared, that MATERIALISM has NOTHING to do with any of the problems infecting us.

Literally no one can break free with or without ANYTHING that has ever been offered here.

This is evident with a good jaunt off in to any other realm, the stink wafts even worse the higher you go.

originally posted by: Ghost147
Yes, absolutely. Materialism and Capitalism are constructs of personal focus and success only. It serves no other value but to place yourself above others, and it prevents the progression of humanity at a whole.

What's really worrisome is just how convinced most people are that 'that' is how you need to live and survive. Some people are so totally fixated on needing to have a hot car, big house, huge finances that there is simply no convincing them there's a better way.

I'm afraid I have no idea how this mentality can be changed

LOL again what makes you think these fixations are in need of change ?

Perhaps it is EXACTLY the direction that needs to be explored, just maybe in a whole new level of power.

Wanting to better oneself is seen as destructive and bad to the "enlightened" and the ones who believe they can see a better way.

The system as it is now, is KEY to presenting a new paradigm, it focuses and sharpens things that otherwise would be not in view.

The "HUMAN RACE" is not the borg, it is not something that collectively needs to evolve into something better, stop believing the religious undertones that are the ACTUAL GATEKEEPERS of the higher realms, the ones that tell us everything we do HERE, is the problem.

Evidently, people here and beyond, have no idea how to proceed or WHAT to proceed to , and they believe the good sounds of the so-called NEW AGE/OLD AGE paradigms, that offer to enslave you, just at one gradient higher than you were at before.

It is high time to abandon the trappings of the mind, to realize just how UTTERLY BIZARRE existence is, and how every single idea presented to us here, has no good endings, or even beckons as something to try for.

Try to imagine this, they will NEVER let you go, not of their will !!

a reply to: onequestion

I would say actually that greed is the problem rather than materialism alone. To survive in this world we
all need to be materialistic to some point, I don't see a problem with accumulating wealth so much either, its when its done at the expense of others that it is a problem, when you have greed combined with apathy then you have real problems.
Its like when the debate was raging over gun control a while back, its not guns that are the problem its the people pulling the trigger, sure guns are more effective than say a knife for example, but the psychopath will use whatever means available to carry out their agenda.
the same goes for money, a friend argued that if we got rid of money it would solve the worlds problems, but its just another tool at the end of the day. Its how its used and for what purposes that issues arise.
The real problem is in the hearts and minds of humanity, our attitudes towards each other and our environment.
The real problem is the Ego, the all important I, ME, MINE, driving nearly all of us. (including me)
The real battle therefore is against ourselves.
If each one of us can overcome our lower selfish nature, we would truly have a Utopian society.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Couldn't agree more with what you said! Here's one of my favorite articles on Ego destruction:

hiddenlighthouse.wordpress.com...

That website as a whole has some interesting material.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
If each one of us can overcome our lower selfish nature, we would truly have a Utopian society.

Even if society ever were an utopia, the trick is on a whole other level - I have a suspicion that the physical universe is an artificial construct whose purpose has been to "limit" and "imprison" whoever beings get caught there, without regard to whatever happens inside it.
In that case, I guess the definitive solution would involve freeing all living beings by finding a way to blow up the supercomputer or whatever is being used to run the whole business, questions later.

a reply to: Esoterotica

Thanks I will check that out, I battle with my ego daily, it is a struggle though, it can come at you in the most unexpected ways... And being truly selfless seems pretty much impossible! Thankfully though I'm sure we don't have to
be. We should strive to live as our better/higher selves in all things we do(the ego can take much gratification from that)
and at least then we can say we were trying to do the 'right' thing.

originally posted by: yosako

originally posted by: surfer_soul
If each one of us can overcome our lower selfish nature, we would truly have a Utopian society.

Even if society ever were an utopia, the trick is on a whole other level - I have a suspicion that the physical universe is an artificial construct whose purpose has been to "limit" and "imprison" whoever beings get caught there, without regard to whatever happens inside it.
In that case, I guess the solution involves to free all living beings inside by blowing out the "mechanism", "computer" or whatever runs it, questions later.

Interesting pov the old matrix paradigm more or less? I don't see why not actually, dna is a program, everything in the universe is governed by laws and such. But how would we locate and blow out the mechanism than runs it as you say? Could it be in ourselves? At the core of our own perception perhaps?
Mystics and scholars of the past seem to have thought so, maybe the answer is within after all?

originally posted by: surfer_soul

originally posted by: yosako

originally posted by: surfer_soul
If each one of us can overcome our lower selfish nature, we would truly have a Utopian society.

Even if society ever were an utopia, the trick is on a whole other level - I have a suspicion that the physical universe is an artificial construct whose purpose has been to "limit" and "imprison" whoever beings get caught there, without regard to whatever happens inside it.
In that case, I guess the solution involves to free all living beings inside by blowing out the "mechanism", "computer" or whatever runs it, questions later.

Interesting pov the old matrix paradigm more or less? I don't see why not actually, dna is a program, everything in the universe is governed by laws and such. But how would we locate and blow out the mechanism than runs it as you say? Could it be in ourselves? At the core of our own perception perhaps?
Mystics and scholars of the past seem to have thought so, maybe the answer is within after all?

Some science there: www.technologyreview.com...

So if our cosmos is merely a simulation, there ought to be a cut off in the spectrum of high energy particles.

It turns out there is exactly this kind of cut off in the energy of cosmic ray particles, a limit known as the Greisen–Zatsepin–Kuzmin or GZK cut off.

So it seems to be some kind of technological construct after all.

If humanity would like to begin moving in a better direction as an entire species than we need to begin rejecting materialism and mainstream culture and get back to thinking about things that really matter like each other.

The land of a nation is owned by its people, not its government, which is why some societies give free land to people when they mature into adulthood. So if everybody was given free land and the opportunity to build cheap homes like the ones below for less than $5000. How many would turn their back on that opportunity to instead be enslaved for a lifetime paying off usury? I suspect not many.

So its not our real nature to be insanely materialistic. Clearly society is controlled by fascist that profit by enslaving people into debt. They make the rules and push the false ideology that materialism brings happiness, And whilst they are in power, nothing will change.

As individuals we can try break free from the spider-web that forces society into slavery by being smarter than the sheeple that are sleep walking through life. Reduce all outgoings, stop buying junk, grow your own food, use solar panels for lights and refrigeration, use a bicycle for transportation (yuba mundo), try find like minded people to share land with etc.

We each have choice. They have only narrowed our choices.

a reply to: onequestion

I think that if you can dispose of what you have freely then you would also be free of selfishness, the simple knowledge being that things come back again in a cycle - cars might rust and then turn into the Earth, and then we might mine the Earth to make more metals for cars.

It means that one can let go of material possessions as long as they know that they live in a world that can not really be "destroyed" at all.

And of course, if those people all live in the same world, then as far as the domain of a "world" is concerned, everything also belongs to everybody within it.

That would also prevent people from seeing themselves in opposition to others in the sense of "mine" and "yours".

I agree. I believe things will never change until greed, of which materialism is a big part, is eliminated from the human psyche.

ETA: No, I do not have high hopes for this, or even any suggestions to fix it.

a reply to: onequestion
The universe is so incredibly enormous, materialism isn't a problem provided we move beyond our planet.

I agree , we need to diminish our ego and to do that we need to become psychedelic beings again , we need to connect to the Gaia'n mind once more

I've heard people say that the Earth is overpopulated, or that our savior is going to be the day we can jettison off a dying planet.

These are just concepts and they are widespread not because of their truthfulness. Something else, or a collection of things/events, planted these thought-seeds and it shows me that not only through my own experience, but through the observation of others, that the mind of a human is plastic. So greed, materialism...whatever your excuse for the state of the world, is a product of a human's environment, starting with their parents all the way to their death and the good news is that I think we're changing what is the status quo of thought.

In a future I may never see, humans on a wide scale will arrive at the simple truth of sustainable thinking. The Earth will force it eventually, if we don't honor our delusions of higher cognitive thinking and arrive there rationally. How does the saying go? "If you throw nature out the window, it comes back in through the front door carrying a pitchfork."

I agree with anyone here who has said that the state of the collective human mind is the biggest enemy of those who have arrived at this natural truth. It may be that the best use of focus and energy is building your own provision to the extent that you can and engaging with your local community where that extent ends. Leaving the destiny of the sweeping current of thought up to the cosmos/God while you keep busy building what has to come.