Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

a reply to: 8fl0z

Sanders himself says he cannot do this without the people.

Voting for him is at the very least insinuating that you'd be willing to get more involved, I'd think. Especially if you're actually and actively supporting him and his message.

No one person can do much. Millions can do a lot.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Voting is a joke. The 'elections' are bought and paid for. Bernie has the chance of an ice cube in hell to 'win'. Everything he stands for is against the current establishment, they WILL shut him down.

The only way we're going to change this system and country for the better is to march on DC, march on Wall Street, guns in hand and demand change. The government and corporations that run the government fear the power of a united people, they count on us being divided by red and blue, playing their game.

Your beloved Bernie, no matter how against the system he is, is still part of that system. You cannot change a system like this from within, you can only change it by dismantling it from the outside and rebuilding.

a reply to: 8fl0z

I fear that a France style revolution is almost impossible in this day & age. How many cops/military servicemen would switch sides I wonder? Or would their addiction of a steady paycheck be enough to stand guard over the status quo.

a reply to: deadlyhope

So now there are different versions of socialism?

a reply to: Freenrgy2

No.

Now there are a lot of political ideologies that are deemed as socialism, even though it's vastly different from the dictionary definition of government ownership of land and business.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Wrong again,

Communism is a stateless, and classless society; in which there is no state, the state does not exist in a communist society; ie there is no government.

Democratic socialism/social democracy, is the act of creating a socialist society through the democratic process; the main attribute of socialism is the state gains ownership of the means of production.

I am simply properly labeling things, it's good to use terms properly. Stop improperly labeling things, the nations you referred to are capitalist, they have generous social program, which is not socialism. Norway, has a portion of it's economy functioning as state capitalism.

America, is not a capitalist society, it is a corporate fascist society; which features corporate welfare/protectionism, and the heavy influence/control of large corporations on the state.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: deadlyhope

Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

No, they can't.

F/S.

Show me SOMETHING that proves emulating countries with higher standards of living is a bad thing for America.

Again, they can't.

I haven't seen any solid arguments on this front,

There aren't any solid arguments against him

just opinions and ignorant shouts of "communism!"

Right.

Just opinions and ignorant shouts.

here's my solid argument......IF he gets the democratic nomination, the republican will win....why?...24/7 broadcasts of "communist/socialist", and, "old jew", will make it the biggest landslide for the republican party in decades.....which by the way, will put the entire government (31 state governors, supreme court, senate, house, and president) under the GOP's control. that's enough for me to not vote for Bernie for the democratic nomination.

a reply to: jimmyx

here's my solid argument......IF he gets the democratic nomination, the republican will win....why?...24/7 broadcasts of "communist/socialist", and, "old jew",

Then stand up against that, and tell people what he is - he's not a communist......and being an "old jew" is really irrelevant.

IF he gets the democratic nomination, the republican will win....why?...24/7 broadcasts of "communist/socialist", and, "old jew", will make it the biggest landslide for the republican party in decades.....which by the way, will put the entire government (31 state governors, supreme court, senate, house, and president) under the GOP's control. that's enough for me to not vote for Bernie for the democratic nomination.

That's your "solid argument"?

Polls show otherwise.
In polls regarding him vs any of the "Republicans", he does better than Clinton does.

If he gets the nomination, the Republicans will definitely not win.

That's my "solid argument."

a reply to: GodEmperor

Democratic socialism/social democracy, is the act of creating a socialist society through the democratic process;

Right. To make sure the most vulnerable and disenfranchised are not left to fall between the cracks, languish, wither, and die.....!!!!

.... the main attribute of socialism is the state gains ownership of the means of production.

I'm not sure what you're saying.......
but if you think Bernie's policy promotes "state ownership of the means of production", that is totally and completely wrong.

Completely and Totally Wrong.

I hope that is what you're saying, that Bernie's policies are not the "commie!" version.
Our main purpose here is to educate people about what Bernie is actually proposing, not how adjectives are defined.

Can anyone give me a real reason Bernie is bad for America?

1. He's too damn old.

2. He's a stinking Socialist.

3. We fought long and hard to keep these kinds of parasites from running this country.

4. The US is supposed to be a Republic, not the USSR.

a reply to: Restricted

1. He's too damn old.

Nope. Why do you think that?

2. He's a stinking Socialist.

You have a lot of homework to do.

3. We fought long and hard to keep these kinds of parasites from running this country.

You mean, the banksters and 'corporate people' who buy the politicians? Well, you failed. The Banksters and Corporate CEOs are running this country. You cool with that?

4. The US is supposed to be a Republic, not the USSR.

No one is talking about making the USA into the "USSR" - (which acronym, by the way, means: United Soviet Socialist Republic.) What Bernie is proposing is NOT COMMUNISM.

PLEASE, for godssake, STOP listening to Beck and Limbaugh and Fox, PLEASE!!!!

gah

originally posted by: whatsup86

Ehmm how exactly? Can you explain that instead of just saying that is the same thing? I can read between lines but thats just called speculating. You can twist anything any way you want if you read between lines.
...

I posted the very definition of social democrat from that very same supporter of Bernie website, and it states, again...

...

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically- to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few.
...

www.berniesandersvideo.com...

What that means is that social democrats believe the state should run all means of production. How do you otherwise guarantee that it is only used "to meet public needs, and not to make profit for a few"?

The "State" is "supposedly" voted into office by the people. Hence when "the State" owns the means of production, it is "supposed" to guarantee that the economy, and society in general are run to meet public needs.

You believe that when they say "it shouldn't be there to profit a few" that it only talks about the top 1%, but that is not true. It is talking about ALL means of production. Including farms, and even small hotdog stands. It all has to be completely controlled by the State.

I was born and raised part of my life in Cuba, and to this day farmers there have to give to the state for free 80% of their harvest, and farmers can only plant what the STATE tells them to plant "for the common good". The State also dictates the prices of all products. None of it helps the people at all. In Cuba, like in other countries that embraced socialism, the people go hungry meanwhile the State, and those who run it are "the fat cats".

Until about a few months ago one of my cousins who still lives in Cuba was a farmer. But the State decided that the land he was farming, and he lived on could be "better used for the collective", which is always the excuse used when the State wants to take over a piece of land. This was after my cousin, a brother of his, and their father had cleared the land to be able to farm it. He was originally given 7 days to clear the land and leave the place. His father was able to get 20 days instead because they had to bring down and clear a few buildings they had erected to store the harvests, and the small house they lived in. Everything had to be cleared, including all rubble, and in Cuba this is done by hand and with the help of farm animals, not with bulldozers or tractors.

That's what it means the "common good" or "collective good". Whatever the "State" claims it is. It is not what "you" think it means.

originally posted by: whatsup86
And youre living in the most inequal western country.. How can a bit more equality possibly hurt you? Half of the western countries are basically socialistic and doing better than the US. How is that not something you want? All youre scared of is words. From where you stand any improvement probably is something socialistic, since the US is a country that has run wild in capitalism and right-winged thinking. Yes run wild. You religiously follow capitalism but there are no statistics that back up why you would do so, all I read is being scared of it because.... its socialism and thats somehow a bad word? Capitalism scares me because I look at the US and I see companies that basically dictate your government and are treated like individuals. Also how you condone that the rich are getting richer and poor poorer is just insane. Now that is actually scary and that is something Sanders is looking to tackle. You always were a society that was ahead and now youre way behind. Just because of religiously following capitalism.

Wrong... Unless the State has control over all means of production, that State is not socialist. The places you call "socialist" are very capitalistic. Yes, they have implemented some socialist ideals, but guess what? Look at the massive immigration now in those places, and look at what it is doing to those places.

Not to mention the fact that we got into this mess because of socialist ideals... The Federal Reserve bank was a progressive democrat idea based on socialist and even communist tenets. The United States Constitution declares that ONLY CONGRESS shall be able to control and issue coin. Not to mention that only gold and silver should be used for coin. Yet in 1913 progressive democrats signed the Federal Reserve act, giving all power over the United States' economy to the international bankers who control the Federal Reserve.

We are in the mess we are in "globally" because of "socialist ideals"... Yet you claim that "more socialism will only make it better"?...

a reply to: deadlyhope

Well, Mr. Hope....Socialism is one step before Communism. It has been tried over and over again, with the same thought...we will do it right this time. And every time it fails because of greed. Anything that is free, be it education, healthcare, whatever, has no value. Part of what makes a country great is when its citizens value what they earn. I valued education but came from a poor family. I went to work and earned it. Health care is the same. If you want to know what socialized medicine looks like, ask someone who serves in the military and uses their health care. If you take something for free you give up freedom. It is already happening that government is imposing its values and will on people because free medical cannot survive with a population who drinks, smokes, eats whatever they want whenever they want. You can cede your freedom to do those things to the government but it won't be long before you lose other basic freedoms because the government knows better than you what is good for you. I do not want to live in a society like that.

Bernie Sanders talks like the rich are all criminals and he will force them to pay for all of his ideas. Trust me on this....the rich are not going to pay for anything. They will pass those costs on to consumers, which will explode inflation. Free education? No such thing. Someone will pay and what they will pay for is different than what you are imagining. Free college education will be valued just like public basic education. It will be diluted to the point where a college degree will mean nothing. Some will take advantage of it but if you think it will drive down the cost of education you are wrong. There are other ways to cut the cost of education. The Federal government is largely responsible for the high cost to begin with. And besides that free education is available now in the form of scholarships offered by every university in the country. All you have to do is do well in high school, apply, and you will probably get some form on scholarship. But back to the Federal Governments role in high education cost. Costs began to skyrocket back in the mid eighties when the government began to hand out grants. Universities saw the opportunity to get research grants but had to build labs and other facilities to compete for the money. Consequently the cost was passed on to students and tuition costs went through the roof. All so that tenured college professors could get research grants to study everything from physics to the most ridiculous inane subjects that we all have heard about and rolled our eyes about.

I think it was Margaret Thatcher who said Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money. CNN did an on the street interview, asking millennials the definition of socialism. Most did not know. But they are willing to vote for a guy who definitely knows and who would send our country down that path. Once you go there, it is difficult to go back because power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. We must have a country where citizens are responsible for themselves. There are many paths to success but in order to be successful you must take one of them. People today do not want to start at the bottom and work their way to the top. And that will be our downfall as a nation because there is so much value to everyone when that happens.

You really want to know the answer? Find someone who lived in the Soviet Union. Those people were hungry to be responsible for their own success. At one point the government allowed farmers to farm one tenth of their property for their own benefit and it was that one tenth of property that produced a majority of their produce after a few years. Society cannot survive providing for those who will not provide for themselves, especially over the long haul.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
...
You mean, the banksters and 'corporate people' who buy the politicians? Well, you failed. The Banksters and Corporate CEOs are running this country. You cool with that?
...

You mean those same bankers which were given the power over the United States' economy under socialist ideals by progressive democrats?... Are those the ones you are talking about?...

For crying out loud, stop listening to all those sissy liberal professors who live only to "re-write history"...

You must be cool with the liberal, and very leftist fat cats such as George Soros, Ted Turner, the Gates, etc, etc running not only the U.S. but the world...

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: jimmyx

here's my solid argument......IF he gets the democratic nomination, the republican will win....why?...24/7 broadcasts of "communist/socialist", and, "old jew",

Then stand up against that, and tell people what he is - he's not a communist......and being an "old jew" is really irrelevant.

IF he gets the democratic nomination, the republican will win....why?...24/7 broadcasts of "communist/socialist", and, "old jew", will make it the biggest landslide for the republican party in decades.....which by the way, will put the entire government (31 state governors, supreme court, senate, house, and president) under the GOP's control. that's enough for me to not vote for Bernie for the democratic nomination.

That's your "solid argument"?

Polls show otherwise.
In polls regarding him vs any of the "Republicans", he does better than Clinton does.

If he gets the nomination, the Republicans will definitely not win.

That's my "solid argument."

I'll try and not be cruel, I happen to like Bernie....but, this is a "blood sport", and in a presidential election, the republicans will make him out to be baby-eating communist. they will say Israel will now control America through Bernie, they will say Muslims will attack America because we have a jewish communist for president, they will show cartoons of him with a big nose, and a star of david on his lapel. and not to forget how many trillions of dollars in extra taxes he has already said he needed to raise, to pay for his "programs". the attacks on his political beliefs and religious beliefs will be non-stop and relentless. in every media source. Bernie IS EXACTLY the candidate the GOP wants to run against.....remember these are the same people that grilled Hillary on non-illegal E-mails for 12 hours in congress....they will tear Bernie a new A hole by the time the election rolls around....plus, they don't care if they tell the truth about Bernie, republican media surrogates will simply keep lying day in and day out. and what red states in the western united states, the midwest, the south, will Bernie win??...and this is IF, IF, he wins all the blue states that Obama won.....
as far as polls are concerned, which NATIONAL poll shows him winning? remember, POTUS elections are often decided by the "margin of error" of any poll....and what would those national polls tell you in October? this is after months of right-wing bashing....look, the republicans can't even get behind Jeb Bush, too liberal they say.

a reply to: jimmyx

I'll try and not be cruel, I happen to like Bernie....but, this is a "blood sport", and in a presidential election, the republicans will make him out to be baby-eating communist.

Actually, I think we have already hit that "hurdle" and are in the process of debunking it.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Interesting that you assume I listen to right wing media.

I don't.

PS: There was nothing Republican about the Soviet Union.

a reply to: icewater

Socialism is the government ownership of land and business.

Bernie does not advocate this.

He's desires to emulate some of the most successful nations in the world.

We are at a disadvantage, though. We have more space between the rich and the poor than many major countries in the world. I've read even Afghanistan has less of a gap between the elite rich and poor people of their country.

He is not a socialist on the way to communism.
He is not going to tax anyone 90 percent.
Other countries already have put into practice the polices he desires to put in place.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

It was a mix of left and right wing ideas, all backed and influenced by big money, that got us into this mess. Bernie doesn't even claim he's the solution, he claims that we, the people, are the solution. That's why I like him. He's honest, genuine, and actually desires the people to become involved.

a reply to: deadlyhope

It was a progressive democrat President, Woodrow Wilson, with the help of a democrat Congress that implemented the Federal Reserve Act. That without mentioning the reforms to the IRS which made it a "progressive taxation tool".

As for Bernie...of course he says he needs the people... He needs the people to get in power. Who we need is a Ron Paul as President, not a Bernie or Hillary.

Who we need is someone who will uphold the United States Constitution, and not someone who wants to "re-write it".