Hey Europeans, at what point do you realise the US is trying to destroy you

a reply to: VanGcouverite

They're doing a good enough job at destroying themselves.

They were involved in the conflicts which led to major regional problems.

They were involved in the sanctions against disagreeing states.

They were involved in opening Europe's doors to over a million refugees.

The European Union isn't exactly the most pure of organisations...

If it came down to it, the USA would prioritise its own interests over those of its allies. I don't question that. I don't think they are intending to destroy Europe, its allies, but they definitely don't mind taking underhanded cracks at them (if information leaked by Snowden is an indicator).

In the end, every country looks out for itself. Alliances may come and go, but countries must ensure their own survival. If it means slighting another country to get an advantage, then so be it.

a reply to: VanGcouverite

Not interested in your government data and links that link to government data

Of course you aren't.

IQ 140 here

Great, but that has no bearing on this conversation.

Don't get me wrong I am sure you are very practised online presenter/ debater

Just that I am not interested to play the game

But yet you came to ATS...so it seems you are.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: VanGcouverite

Hey Europeans, at what point do you realise the US is trying to destroy you

Hey Europeans when are you going to take responsibility for your own problems and quit blaming the US for everything?

Now that would have been a better title.

Funny how the US is blamed for everything while other countries aren't held responsible for their own problems.

I often point out the american influence in some of the big problems in europe, but that is because I am american!!

Don't we all learn, early on, to take responsibility for our part in things, as that also is accepting our power in them as well??

I did... and I continue to do so, instinctively drawn to shine attention upon where my responsibility lies, and so end up doing the same thing in terms of international affairs- looking for my countries part in things.

But-
I never hear EUROPEANS talking of these things! (Which is perhaps why the OP directed it towards them).
They too, spend their time discerning their part in things, and pointing that out.
I never hear Europeans blaming their problems on America. Don't get confused by what you see on these forums and think it is representative of the majority of Europeans.



My very personal opinion is this- America has put a lot of energy, money, time and effort into becoming a world leader.
Being a leader means you influence all those you lead.

When you are a leader, that means that you and all your values, culture, and systems that have invaded those you lead will leave you partly responsibly for how they work, or don't.

You get blamed for problems, and praised for successes. That's the way it is. That's power- unless it is corrupt power, where you accept only the privilages and refuse the responsibilities.

I totally understand if there are americans who don't especially want that sort of role, and would prefer to live in a country that is less in the spotlight, carrying less power and responsibility for the rest fo the world.
You can move to another, or you can vote for politicians who are more focused on becoming a less powerful country in the world.

The problem is that many are drawn towards the idea of being powerful world leaders, without really taking into account all that entails...

a reply to: VanGcouverite

At what point do Bilderbergers meeting in Europe realise, hey Americanssss, you guys are harshing our buzz, yes we can move to the US as elite to live there if EU blows up.

But that wasn't the original agreement damnit ...

Wherever did you get the idea tah the USA leadership arent beholden to the Bilderberger agenda?

look at footnote no.32 in particular
en.wikipedia.org...

List of Bilderberg participants
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following is a list of prominent persons who are known to have attended one or more conferences organized by the Bilderberg Group

Don't blame the people, blame corporate greed (aka your employer).

Big biz is willing to throw all of us under the bus. As long as they can make a buck they really don't care if you are a yankee gun nut, a frog eater, a kraut, a queen loving tommy, or even a wannabe world conqueror jihadi.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

What's funny is everyone says the US should be more self sufficient with oil and quit buying imported oil, but when we do we are the bad guys...Imagine that.

Whats not so funny is that the US is broke, only propped up by the worlds energy being traded in US Petro Dollars. Change the method of exchange and your house of cards falls. We saw what happened to Libya and Iraq when they talked of starting a gold standard "Dinar" to combat the fiat money printing,

a reply to: VanGcouverite
Shouldn't this be a rant?

a reply to: VanGcouverite

Who isn't thE U.S. govt corp. Trying to desroy?

OP bailed half an hour ago. I don't think he's coming back. The "Let's Bash America" thread that didn't quite turn out like he and his 140 IQ [ I think someone has an inferiority complex ] thought.

This isn't ''Americas'' baby. It's all about the EU project expanding into Eastern Europe with NATO piggybacking. The US could have done without this headache considering what they have on their plate at the moment. Although thats not to say they haven't taken advantage of the situation, they have. But the overall plan and goals are clearly the EU Projects.

For anyone who follows the EU and know the History, its classic EU! They have done what they do all the time, underestimate the challenge and opponents i.e Russia.

To suggest the US is out to destroy Europe is Ridiculous. What the US needs in the 21st Century is a strong United Europe. Why? Go ask any Economist or Global Political Analyst and ask them who'll own the 21st Century, financially and through Military might. Then add Russia and Islamic Terrorism to the list.

The EU Project is causing Europes own downfall, not the US.

originally posted by: VanGcouverite
Little disappointed with European intellectuals to say the least.

I think it's intellectually backward to blame the US for everything. In fact, I think people in Europe are masters of their own fate. Europe is not dead. The EU remains the biggest GDP. There are parts of Europe that are stunted, but most is thriving and living standards and weath are well above Russia's and China's, as are civil and social liberties.

We are too busy destroying our own country to worry about destroying any other . And if this was true, as spoken , what is the agenda ? Why do you believe the US would attempt to destroy Europe ? I have given it much thought and really cannot come up with any valid reasonable idea. So , lets hear yours.

I am going to back up on my last post slightly . You may be right in one respect. The US has been turning its back on the European allies and turning to more questionable ME countries

a reply to: VanGcouverite

Your premise centres on the idea of nations moving against nations, political machines levelling sanctions against other political machines, and foreign affairs offices retaliating with paper and lead as the situation dictates, causing everything from annexations to campaigns of terror to kick off, with their own inevitable conclusions and knock on effects.

However, that is, without wishing any disrespect, a shallow way to look at events. It ignores factors, variables which play into the shape things have taken, variables without which, a rounded and nuanced view of matters cannot be established. For example, the fact is that powerful cartels and cabals of insanely wealthy individuals have had their fingers in the affairs of state of virtually every political powerhouse on the face of the world, for decades, much longer than you and I, or even you and I combined have been alive.

To think of the way the world is as being a conclusion to a series of purely politically motivated black ops, or a series of face saving exercises, or even an effort by one nation to dominate others, is to ignore the expensively cloaked elephant in the room, that being that international business interests have more capacity to change the world and the way it operates, than nations ever have. There are residents of Europe who own massive quantities of power and influence in the States, and there are individuals in America, who despite being mere businessmen can make and break lives an ocean, a world away. I do not merely refer to individual lives, but the capacity to effect millions of lives in countries not their own, purely by pilling strings, moving stocks, shifting balances to their favour, and the favour of any investor bloc or higher tier organisation operating outside of normal public scrutiny.

The truth of the matter is as simple as it is complex. The money is where the power is. Powerful people do not ask for votes, they buy shares, and with those shares move mountains in a way that would make the efforts of governments alone look like the fumbles and missteps of a nervous virgin. And powerful people with money can buy themselves an awful lot of anonymity, hiding behind this shell company, that little discussed arm of a conglomerate. These people will act against the interests of their own nations people, in order to further the interests of their accountants, and do, on a near constant basis, defrauding their own governments and using cleverly manipulated banking strategies, not to mention by purchasing the acquiescence of certain political figures and civil servants in order to smooth the waves they make as the move in the world, making those waves harder and ever harder to pin down to a single source. Where you see the wave end in the US, I see it end in a bank account in the US, a nation being used as chaff to throw our guidance off.

The world does not work on a purely nation against nation, political against political basis. The political universe reacts to these players in the same way as our universe may react to dark matter. We cannot see it, we cannot measure it or observe it directly, and as a result our best guesses may prove somewhat wide of the margin, but we know something is there, pushing this galaxy, and pulling that one, shifting this part of space and time, and buffeting that one, all without our ability to directly observe it.

Think not of the way Europe is today as a function of American moves to see the superstate fractured. Think instead of how a group of monied persons or a powerful and influential figure, with no official ties to a government or a political bloc, might stand to gain from things being what they are, and you will see that foreign affairs being what they are is just as much, if not far more, a product of the desire for those whose wealth and power is largely invisible, to gain even more wealth and power. Power corrupts. Power greater than that of nations, and harder to directly observe, corrupts more absolutely than one can fathom without first accepting that ones nation has next to no power, as long as money can buy its favour. And it most certainly can, no matter where on the world you happen to be.

Well, to be fair, the central bankers that control the US also control most of Europe. And Europe's been our de-facto vassal state since the "Marshall Plan" (look into it if you're bored). Oh yeah, and throughout the Cold War, the US stifled most dissent in its NATO allies through "Operation Gladio", just as it imposed "Operation Condor" in Latin America. And we still have our bases throughout Europe, both to protect them & to keep them in check (kind of like the Praetorian Guard that protected leaders while ensuring their compliance & loyalty).

On small & medium issues, the European leadership can do what they want. But with major issues, most European leaders & powerbrokers will fall in line with US demands. That's kind of the point in "US hegemony", the US being "the leader of the free world", "America taking a lead in global events", etc.

Its not the peoples fault anywhere their corrupt leaders have sold-out to the mega banks and corporations that fund and arm the destruction of nations not yet subject to them.

Its not the EU, US or NATO even, but the money grubbers at the top with all the wealth using debt leverage to try and control everyone.

US weapons tech is among the best available and thats what is most sought after. In that regard, yes the US military industrial complex is threatening everyone.

a reply to: VanGcouverite

Poor Canada. The lousy exchange rate is solely due to Canada not developing secondary and tertiary industry when they were raking in the cash since... oh, what? The seventies.


Of course, what you also omit is your socialist paradise is suffering from massive profits in your big export companies that are outside oil.


Lumber, fish, just about any export from Canada, not oil based is booming due to the exchange rate.


Oh, that's right. Those are BIG Corporations. Your pump prices haven't dropped much either. Another sweet deal between the GVRD and OIL. Ain't socialism beautiful. The marriage between gov't and the big Corporations. Gas in Blaine. Wa. yesterday, 1.79 a gallon....

a reply to: VanGcouverite

You have to forgive the intellectuals. They are so 'busy' intellectualizing, they can't see the ground they are walking on.


Perhaps, just perhaps, in your anti-U.S. diatribe, you might consider
the ones doing in the EU are the same ones doing in the U.S.?

originally posted by: VanGcouverite
a reply to: DAVID64

If you read my op

I specifically talk about corrupt European leaders who are not smart enough to see the US elite are throwing them under a bus

Lol, OP.... You do know that when you talk about the FED... Lol.... Um you are talking about the Rothschild family and the bank of England right?

Lol, did you just make all that up, or was it just a gut feeling?

Because the truth is lacking in it entirely.

originally posted by: VanGcouverite

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: midicon

Let's not forget the deliberate manipulation of the oil prices aimed at undermining Russia no matter the cost to anyone else.

Ah yes because no other country that produces and exports oil did anything, and the US did it all.

Even the dead in their graves know about special US Saudi relationship

And that US has clout there

And Saudis have clout with most of OPEC

Maybe your bs passes with other members but to me it is like rancid oil

I find it much more likely that the Bank of England is responsible, not the US. And that's saying something because I haven't bought in to that conspiracy yet.