Jan 30, 2016 Ongoing Protests of the murder of Lavoy Finicum Burns, Oregon

originally posted by: fldinosaur
a reply to: SaturnFX

Lavoy was right handed and wore a revolver on his right hip and he left it at the refuge. Never was a mention of a 9mm except by the cops. The reaching he did was in reaction of getting shot the first time while his hands were up.

And you really expect us to believe that LaVoy or any of those other protesters went anywhere without their guns? Now you're reaching!

They don't go take a crap without their guns.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Murdered?
he was pulling a gun

he was killed
unfortunate, but pull a gun on a cop, and you're gonna get shot.

Yea thats true, you pull a gun on anyone armed you will get shot.......but he was never seen with a gun in his hand and looked like he was reaching for his shirt pocket. Hhe should not have moved his arms once they were up.

a reply to: Flatfish

It does when the people you're expecting to stop are known to be armed and have threatened law enforcement with deadly force if they try to interfere with their protest!

Then it's not a routine traffic stop... absolutely nothing about that ambush was routine and they sure weren't stopped for a traffic violation... and portraying it as such just makes them lying liars.

I'm actually very thankful that in their arrogance, they have confirmed exactly who they are for the whole world to see.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: tensetek
I could not agree more with you guys! It look to me as though he reaches down to a gunshot wound then he tries to turn and stumbles a little, and if you look his elbows are bent like he had his hands up in front of his chest then just collapses... Then you must wonder what was the deal about unloading on the truck at all, when is that proper procedure? They ambushed them and were *trying* to kill them, all of them... how anyone can not be enraged just floors me. These new videos are very inspiring and I hope the protests grow! RIP LaVoy

And you're just as delusional as those armed protesters.

If law enforcement truly wanted to "kill them all," they'd all be dead and there wouldn't be any video whatsoever.

They were known to be armed, they had threatened to use deadly force against any LEOs who tried to remove them or impede their cause, they did not follow instructions during the first stop, then they fled and attempted to run through a police roadblock.

Actually, they're damn lucky they're not all dead.

They were under the impression they had clear passage to a meeting. They should have known better and maybe they did and took their chances.

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: TheBadCabbie

I also can't help but wonder, if the authorities were justified in gunning him down, where is the body cam and dash cam footage that proves this? The audio of such recordings that would clearly demonstrate this? Where is that? I think it's very telling that none of this has been released...

Yeah, they really thought they were clever. But I think that's backfiring on them -- hence the protests and growing anger. There is nothing conclusive about that video as I understand it, and the lack of audio is key. But the ambush is obvious. And it didn't help they tried to pass it off as a routine traffic stop. I know they parsed their words carefully; but people know they're just weasel words.

Exactly. A routine traffic stop doesn't have a trooper hiding in the woods waiting for a gun fight.

It does when the people you're expecting to stop are known to be armed and have threatened law enforcement with deadly force if they try to interfere with their protest!

Like good Boy Scouts, law enforcement came to the party prepared. Which is a helluva lot more than I can say for the protesters.

You've proven my point... what's routine about that. Nothing. This should be called anything but routine.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Flatfish

It does when the people you're expecting to stop are known to be armed and have threatened law enforcement with deadly force if they try to interfere with their protest!

Then it's not a routine traffic stop... absolutely nothing about that ambush was routine and they sure weren't stopped for a traffic violation... and portraying it as such just makes them lying liars.

I'm actually very thankful that in their arrogance, they have confirmed exactly who they are for the whole world to see.

I never said it was a "routine" traffic stop.

IMO, it was a traffic stop intended to arrest specific individuals for criminal activity. They were known to be armed and had threatened to use force against those who interfere with them. Hardly routine.

On the other hand, it's a tactic commonly used when dealing with this kind of threat.

Which is to isolate and arrest the threat when & where LEOs control the absolute advantage in every aspect. A pretty smart policy if you ask me.

All the protesters had to do was to stop the damn truck and follow instructions and no one would have gotten hurt.

They made a choice, law enforcement came prepared for that choice and now a protester is dead.

There is nothing "routine" about the traffic stop. The FBI announcement stated clearly that it was a joint effort between Federal State and local forces to apprehend these criminals and bring them in as peacefully as possible as far away from the public as possible.

Law enforcement was prepared for resistance, fortunately, only one individual was foolish enough to offer it, and he had stated that fact in advance.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: Flatfish

originally posted by: tensetek
I could not agree more with you guys! It look to me as though he reaches down to a gunshot wound then he tries to turn and stumbles a little, and if you look his elbows are bent like he had his hands up in front of his chest then just collapses... Then you must wonder what was the deal about unloading on the truck at all, when is that proper procedure? They ambushed them and were *trying* to kill them, all of them... how anyone can not be enraged just floors me. These new videos are very inspiring and I hope the protests grow! RIP LaVoy

And you're just as delusional as those armed protesters.

If law enforcement truly wanted to "kill them all," they'd all be dead and there wouldn't be any video whatsoever.

They were known to be armed, they had threatened to use deadly force against any LEOs who tried to remove them or impede their cause, they did not follow instructions during the first stop, then they fled and attempted to run through a police roadblock.

Actually, they're damn lucky they're not all dead.

They were under the impression they had clear passage to a meeting. They should have known better and maybe they did and took their chances.

That's because they're not only ignorant, they're stupid as well.

Law enforcement rope-a-doped them into thinking they had the freedom to come & go at will by allowing some to go into town for meals and such.

They probably monitored their communications and found out about their planned excursion to the meeting and the rest is just writing on the wall.

Those protesters are about as astute as Bill Murray was in CaddyShack.

Here is the criminal case filed the day after Finicum was shot...Case 3:16-mj-00004 Document 14 Filed 01/27/16 Page 1 of 32, i have downloaded the pdf if it is no longer there.
it says REDACTED and looks like Finicum was added at the last minute...likely around the time he was shot.
this speaks to the intent of the FBI to assassinate with a legal cover story.

a reply to: Flatfish

What I said was that the cops agreed to allow them to travel unmolested to the meeting. Thats really different than giving them the impression ect.

a reply to: Flatfish

IMO, it was a traffic stop intended to arrest specific individuals for criminal activity. They were known to be armed and had threatened to use force against those who interfere with them. Hardly routine.

Then you agree -- it was not routine and it was not a traffic stop. Therefore, and the FBI portraying it as such was deceitful and dishonest, and nothing they say or do can be trusted.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Flatfish

What I said was that the cops agreed to allow them to travel unmolested to the meeting. Thats really different than giving them the impression ect.

Yeah and Ali allowed his opponents to think they could pummel him unmolested too, right up until the point where he would come off the ropes and knock them the f*%k out.

Like I said, classic "Rope-A-Dope."

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Flatfish

IMO, it was a traffic stop intended to arrest specific individuals for criminal activity. They were known to be armed and had threatened to use force against those who interfere with them. Hardly routine.

Then you agree -- it was not routine and it was not a traffic stop. Therefore, and the FBI portraying it as such was deceitful and dishonest, and nothing they say or do can be trusted.

I already said I didn't think it was routine.

That in and of itself doesn't prove that the FBI are intentionally being deceitful or that they can never be trusted, that's just stupid.

More than likely, it was just a poor choice of words used by the agent describing the take-down. Nothing more, nothing less.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Flatfish

IMO, it was a traffic stop intended to arrest specific individuals for criminal activity. They were known to be armed and had threatened to use force against those who interfere with them. Hardly routine.

Then you agree -- it was not routine and it was not a traffic stop. Therefore, and the FBI portraying it as such was deceitful and dishonest, and nothing they say or do can be trusted.

Breaking news: everybody lies. Everybody is dishonest. Either intentionally or unintentionally, the overwhelming majority of people are, have been, and will be dishonest about something at some point in both their professional and personal lives. Therefore, nothing anybody ever says anywhere about anything can ever be trusted.

Ever.

Eta - when did the FBI portray this as a "routine" traffic stop? The FBI doesn't pull people over for broken tail lights. All I've seen from the FBI is they attempted to conduct a probable cause stop on several individuals they had warrants for. In fact in their press statement, they called it an enforcement action, not a "routine traffic stop." So I'm wondering where this statement from the FBI calling it a routine traffic stop is.

a reply to: Flatfish

More than likely, it was just a poor choice of words used by the agent describing the take-down. Nothing more, nothing less.

Incompetence is just a little tiny bit better than deliberate dishonesty... but we will just have to disagree about that (and I'm sure much more.) Either way, my response is the same: They cannot be trusted.

a reply to: Shamrock6

Breaking news: everybody lies.

And when it's government officials -- especially law enforcement officials lying and misrepresenting their actions against civilians -- we call them on it.

when did the FBI portray this as a "routine" traffic stop?

Fair enough. Looking at the FBI webpage, they use the term "traffic stop" several times, but do not use the word "routine." They also use the word "action" once, and "operation" a few times. Still a misrepresentation, but technically correct.

originally posted by: Rezlooper

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Murdered?
he was pulling a gun

he was killed
unfortunate, but pull a gun on a cop, and you're gonna get shot.

Did you actually see a gun? Did you actually see him pull anything? The video doesn't show whether he was even reaching for a gun. IMO he was reaching down in reaction to being shot.

not up to me to see anything. I seen him being surrounded, running around, and reaching for something in the coat..now, he might have suddenly realized he needed a breath mint after running from the cops, threatening them, and saying he will die fighting em...totes makes sense.

It will be properly investigated, but like anyone of any color..you dont run from police, and you damn sure dont start reaching for crap when they got guns drawn..you lift your hands high in the air and play it cool..because they have guns and the authority to shoot your ass if they feel threatened.

Moan about that as much as you want, but you know full well thats the truth they are dealing with here. Everyone wants to blame someone when in mourning, but that is typically pointless. Investigate it? sure..should always be an investigation when someone dies, just this video looks pretty damning.

a reply to: Boadicea

Your ignorance of what it is does not a misrepresentation make.

A traffic stop is the legal detention of the operator of a vehicle while a potential crime or violation of law is investigated. Which is exactly what they did: detained the driver of the vehicle because they had probable cause to believe persons subject to warrants were in the vehicle.

Calling it a traffic stop when one detains a vehicle in order to place persons occupying the vehicle under arrest is not a misrepresentation of anything. Spuriously adding "routine" to it and then screaming that one has caught the government lying is a misrepresentation.

Sad to see the vituperative comments....
Obviously there are posters who think Uncle Sam still has their best interests at heart.....
The protestors may have been all those things you said...but at least they had THE COJONES AND DEDICATION TO STAND UP FOR THEIR CAUSE....
The majority of keyboard cowards dissing them seem to believe the government is their friend....good luck with that....
These people are neither heroes nor villians ...just ordinary Americans who have been driven to their actions by
a corrupted and monolithic government that seeks its own perpetuity at the peoples expense....

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: SaturnFX
Murdered?
he was pulling a gun

he was killed
unfortunate, but pull a gun on a cop, and you're gonna get shot.

Yea thats true, you pull a gun on anyone armed you will get shot.......but he was never seen with a gun in his hand and looked like he was reaching for his shirt pocket. Hhe should not have moved his arms once they were up.

I fully expect to see the same naked tribalist defense over these idiots as you did for the various black shootings where it was proven the cops were in the right but it still didn't matter. facts often matter less and less when dealing with mob mentality.
Best to keep it all at arms length and just examine the facts without hoping to see something to justify the rage against the machine.

I will say only what I say when this is happening and its some black kid...I really want all cops to have a constant body cam being recorded at all times while on duty. I think everyone can agree with that, to include most cops.