Delusion was once a beneficial trait for natural selection, IT ISN'T ANYMORE

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElGoobero

otoh, belief in a Higher Power, and a judgment day, might alter your behavior to something more positive and helpful to others, and a more moral self, while denial of same will lead to rejection of a moral code and a philosophy of do-what-you-want and screw everyone else.

The people burning heretics alive believed in a Higher Power (God). The people gassing women and children in the KLs believed in a Higher Power (German Destiny). The Japanese scientists who experimented on unwilling victims believed in a Higher Power (the Emperor). Believing in a Higher Power frees people to do unconscionable things in its name.

Only by taking direct responsibility for one's own actions can one truly be moral.

as mentioned in my previous post, if there is no higher power, what will motivate people to be 'moral'? even while heretics burned and Jews were gassed, others in those lands were quietly saving and helping some victims, at great risk to themselves (Corrie Ten Boom &tc). belief in a higher power will lead to more responsibility, as believers will know they will be held accountable for their actions.
the big problems you've listed is that people felt accountable to the state, or to a human leader. that is why various religions teach people to follow God's law (or the equivalent) in preference to man's law. If there is no God / God's law, people will blindly follow the state.
all the witch burnings in human history don't equal Stalin's starving the Ukrainian kulaks.

www.historyplace.com...
"Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union, set in motion events designed to cause a famine in the Ukraine to destroy the people there seeking independence from his rule. As a result, an estimated 7,000,000 persons perished in this farming area, known as the breadbasket of Europe, with the people deprived of the food they had grown with their own hands."

an extreme example to be sure, but this is what people do with no fear of accountability, no motivation to follow a moral code.

a reply to: ElGoobero

The people who saved others were acting morally, whether they believed in a "higher power" or not. Anyone who makes choices based on whether or not an omniscient power is going to punish them is not acting morally, they are acting out of fear. Looked at that way, the belief in a higher power with the ability to punish undermines morality in favor of fear.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElGoobero

The people who saved others were acting morally, whether they believed in a "higher power" or not. Anyone who makes choices based on whether or not an omniscient power is going to punish them is not acting morally, they are acting out of fear. Looked at that way, the belief in a higher power with the ability to punish undermines morality in favor of fear.

not necessarily fear. concern over judgment/accountability is a factor, but mostly to borderline believers. true believers will do the right thing because that's what's taught, according to their (and their higher power's) moral code.

you can't reason with a five-year-old, so we use physical discipline. as they grow older they will understand the moral code and won't need to be spanked etc.

a reply to: ElGoobero

true believers will do the right thing because that's what's taught, according to their (and their higher power's) moral code.

So if your Higher Power preaches that genocide is a moral duty, as the God of Moses does, then killing people is moral. This is why the belief in a Higher Power is not only delusional, it is dangerous.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElGoobero

true believers will do the right thing because that's what's taught, according to their (and their higher power's) moral code.

So if your Higher Power preaches that genocide is a moral duty, as the God of Moses does, then killing people is moral. This is why the belief in a Higher Power is not only delusional, it is dangerous.

I don't see any Jewish people killing anyone these days.
if you're referring to the Cananites, they were a bunch of pagan child sacrificers with the morals of dogs, and they brought destruction on themselves for their wickedness. this was a one-time event. after the settling of the promised land the children of Israel were taught to live at peace, treat non-Jews well, protect the widow and orphan, etc.

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElGoobero

true believers will do the right thing because that's what's taught, according to their (and their higher power's) moral code.

So if your Higher Power preaches that genocide is a moral duty, as the God of Moses does, then killing people is moral. This is why the belief in a Higher Power is not only delusional, it is dangerous.

I don't see any Jewish people killing anyone these days.
if you're referring to the Cananites, they were a bunch of pagan child sacrificers with the morals of dogs, and they brought destruction on themselves for their wickedness. this was a one-time event. after the settling of the promised land the children of Israel were taught to live at peace, treat non-Jews well, protect the widow and orphan, etc.

So you would commit genocide if your Higher Power ordered it again?

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: ElGoobero

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: ElGoobero

true believers will do the right thing because that's what's taught, according to their (and their higher power's) moral code.

So if your Higher Power preaches that genocide is a moral duty, as the God of Moses does, then killing people is moral. This is why the belief in a Higher Power is not only delusional, it is dangerous.

I don't see any Jewish people killing anyone these days.
if you're referring to the Cananites, they were a bunch of pagan child sacrificers with the morals of dogs, and they brought destruction on themselves for their wickedness. this was a one-time event. after the settling of the promised land the children of Israel were taught to live at peace, treat non-Jews well, protect the widow and orphan, etc.

So you would commit genocide if your Higher Power ordered it again?

My Higher Power's instructions are to live at peace with all men, as far as possible, and love my enemies. Judgment day is coming, but He will take care of that HimSelf.

a reply to: Profusion

lol, Oh that was fun! Thank you for making me laugh!

Okay, so, you believe religious people are the delusional ones, which is fine as it is your right to believe as you will. However, I see that as no different than the delusional utopian paradise believed in by so many atheists where you give most of your wealth to the oh so benevolent entity called the state, allow them to make all of your decisions for you and there will be no more suffering and no more pain.

There is no belief in God which caused Fukushima, you cannot blame the ever increasing need of science to learn better and more brutal means of destroying your enemies who then try to harness those same destructive forces to turn them into good, on belief in God.

Honestly, when a Christian nears death they do so with much more peace than many atheists who try to hang on like grim death to life well past any actual joy in living, who demand science to make it so they never get sick or die.

When it comes down to it, you are not safe as you have your own delusions, and it is not any belief in God which causes all the ills of the world, but human beings themselves, responsible for themselves.

Thank you for the days comedic relief, however. I wish you well in all your delusions.

PS. At least religious people find great enjoyment in their sex life, that is where we find much happiness and joy, don't knock it until you try it!

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: Profusion

I think something more profound is actually going on here and that breeding for survival comes down to 2 species coexisting on this planet - and never the twain shall meet.

Ever wondered why rabbits et al breed like crazy but show little concern for each other when one dies?
Ever wonder why Lions breed very selectively and show concern for their offspring and will protect them at all costs?
Ever wonder why conservatives and liberals have diametrically opposing view points on how society should be maintained?

Welcome to the theory of Gene wars between r series and K series species that exist on this planet.

Occasionally new information completely blow your mind - and this is one of those times! Stefan Molyneux breaks down the basics of the genetic warfare which is the foundation of all living creatures. Different reproduction strategies have emerged over time and this is explained through r/K Selection Theory. When you look at humanity through the lens of reproduction strategies - it's something you can never, and will never, be able to unsee!

Thanks to ATS member greencmp for introducing me to this theory

Thanks a lot for the link. I watch Stephan Molyneux a lot but would have missed this one for quite a while. Starting reading more, for days to months.

Found this short piece, a whole book fit on one web page. I guess it was 20 to 40 printed pages long, unabridged.

The Revolution Was by Garret Garrett

The book lists event of the New Deal from the point of view of a coup d'état.