Why Slander Your Martyr?

Lavoy Finicum tried to escape the police and confronted them when his truck came to a stop. Why would people who support the Bundys, be so quick to claim Lavoy Finicum was executed on his knees, or now that he had his hands in the air? Do you think he wanted people to believe he went out in surrender? Against his previous statements.

On the other hand, ringleader Ammon Bundy, said "death before jail" but he was proven a coward and liar.
If your leader is a liar, your cause is probably a lie.

Since the cause received very little support, yesterday's heroes have become today's Obama crisis actors.

Actual ATS claims from previous Bundy supporters:

"All the more reason to stage this event. To make militia look as incompetent as possible, to make them look silly"

If you believe this, then the arguments supporters made are silly by your own assertion. Not the best way to prove your case that loggers, miners, and ranchers would preserve the land better than the government.

" this was a false flag... I guess this has something to do with Obama's gun grab"

I'd sooner believe this was a false flag to sell assault rifles.
Hint: Have you you ever heard someone claim 9/11 was a FF to preserve our civil liberties, or prevent war? No, because any entity that could coordinate a false flag using the police, government, and media would not fail over and over.

Just some scattered thoughts on the situation....

a reply to: HighFive

Some people have so much trouble admitting that the government may have done the right thing (or at the very least, nothing wrong) that they will do everything in their power to make up excuses and rationalizations so they don't have to admit that. Even if this makes them look like HUGE hypocrites.

a reply to: HighFive
False flag...or execution.....the jury is out on all counts....
Till we actually see more films of the take down and murder with proper audio.....its all guess work and presumption.
Seems hypocrisy is a condition both sides suffer from....

a reply to: bandersnatch

Ok I'll bite.

If this was a false flag, then all the Bundy supporters on ATS are useful idiots and the cause is a sham. Besides, a false flag to do what exactly? Make all these people look stupid? You don't see the irony in someone who parroted the Bundy talking points, trying to claim the government used their own beliefs to make them look stupid.....

Or execution. Which paints Lavoy Finicum as a coward instead of the martyr he wanted to be. Again, this doesn't do any good to the cause he supported.

I don't know, I'm having a hard time gathering sympathy for a cause that explicitly stated multiple times their intentions, and although many of the members have now deleted their YouTube videos, I very clearly remember them promoting violence.

As I said - I'm having a hard time finding sympathy for these people, after all the chest-beating and empty threats they made, what did they expect to happen?

Now - with that said, I would NEVER support a LEO, Fed/State/Local, shooting a suspect while on their knees and with their hands up. Is this the case? I don't know, I wasn't there.

What I do know, is I've watched Ritzhimmers videos - one of which regarding Muslims, "You effed with the wrong country! Eff you! Eff your effing book!," and he was red in the face, screaming at the top of his lungs. After talks of "bloodbaths," "death before jail," it absolutely amazes me at how they are the ones playing the victim card, ESPECIALLY by using their family as justification (and they want donations).

Was this a "false flag?" Well, I feel like the term "false flag," has been thrown around WAY too much, and this - in my opinion - was by no means a "false flag."

A group of armed individuals seized property that wasn't theirs, dished out multiple threats, didn't leave when asked peacefully by the townsfolk, drove around in stolen vehicles under the influence, and have solicited donations from complete strangers.

I'm truly having a hard time even remotely caring regarding their situation, now - if they actually HAD been peaceful, and were more level-headed and mature towards what they were protesting - I believe they would have gathered much, much more support.

I'm still a bit fuzzy as I've had differing opinions passed off "this is exactly what's happening/why they are protesting," yet it seems to be that there are many different and conflicting opinions to this.

What really sealed this for me, was the townsfolk asking them to leave, and they didn't.

I certainly do not have expectations to break federal law and face no criminal wrongdoings whatsoever, I don't know why others feel differently?

And beyond this - it absolutely SHOCKS me at how some posters suggest that anyone who isn't offering their full-pledged support to these men are "government lovers who love to see those who protest squashed," or whatever other ridiculous notions are used.

I've taken heat for it before, but I've peacefully protested - many times, in many different places. In no way, shape, or form, did I break laws whilst doing this, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't have gotten bent out of shape for breaking the law and having to answer for breaking the law.

On the other side of things, how exactly are we meant to "protest," in the means of "inside the law?" Isn't that almost an oxymoron, I can certainly see how some don't agree with that. But over the years, I've realized that I in no way would support an all-out armed revolution. I have no desire for bloodshed, and further conflict.

As far as I'm concerned, that's not the correct way of going about these issues, albeit I can see how others disagree with this. But with that said, I've done more than click away on Internet forums, and I certainly did not make threats towards anyone whilst doing so.

*Insert quote from Einstein here about fixing problems using the same line of thinking that created them

a reply to: RomeByFire
I am a federal lawbreaker on a daily basis. I have no government mandated health care. So I guess I belong in jail with the rest of the lawbreakers.
Insert quote here about people who do the same thing over and over and over and expect different results. I believe that's the definition of insanity. But go ahead, keep writing your congress critters and keep voting for the lesser of the evils....keep expecting things to change because you wish for it.

a reply to: HighFive

You're beeing disingenuous here, putting Informers statement out of it's context regarding the talent release.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: antar

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

HEAR these men being told they'd need to sign a 'talent release'

allnewspipeline.com...

If this is true, then this militia standoff was a False Flag.

At this point I don't know what to believe, it is odd that the FBI let everyone go home.

I have to believe at this point if nothing else comes out of all this mess, then we all have been hoodwinked. My question is why?

What was the purpose for all this?

Actually we have 2 topics at hand.

1. the agent provocateur hypothesis

2. the blatant murder of Finicum

Nobody slandered a thing, this is ATS. Better get used to people, who at least try to connect the dots. Besides from that I can't follow your thought process regarding the 'liar' Bundy. Care to elaborate?

"death before jail"

Those were the prophetic words of Finicum, as he was hypothetically speaking with reporters about a possible raid on the compound. Ammond Bundy said that? Where and when? You're not pushing a lie to slander his cause?