Man caught with 2 guns and koran at Hotel Entrance at Disneyland Paris

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: uncommitted

To be fair, you are correct. My mistake.

That said, it doesn't impact the sentiment of what I stated: that the author of the article made the connection. We are just discussing it.

Most of us do discuss without prejudice, many of us tend not to jump to conclusions before all facts are known, some enter the debate with a pre-determined view of what happened and why based on their own prejudice - sometimes of course that may turn out to be correct, many times it will not. I know you fall into the first and second categories, and I always endeavour to ensure I follow your example.

Most of us do, you are right. And I think that the majority of what we see today as "prejudice" that is rearing its head has more to do with the social upheaval that most folks realize is coming to Europe. Which, honestly, is nothing new. Folks have been immigrating from the Middle East/North Africa into Europe and create upheavel since before humans were "Anatomically Modern Humans".

a reply to: uncommitted

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

You said this, I responded. We were not discussing the relevance of the mention of a koran?

All the possession of a copy of the koran means on face value is that the person had a copy of the koran in their possession - no more, no less.

But he had two guns and a koran. How is it not relevant after recent shooting in France by people yelling ALLAHU ACKBAR!

Don't be so daft.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

No, but I do have a crystal clear view of treating immigrant populations like 3rd class citizens, having grown up here just an hour or two from Mexico (and all the familial relations we have in Mexico)

You obviously don't have a clear view on the problems with islamic immigrants in European countires.

What it sounds to me like is, like here in the US, your biggest beef is with your government.

My beef is with both the government and the general ideology, behavior and intentions of immigrants.

That is your tax dollars funding all the violence (along with mine). Your tax dollars spent destroying their life there, only to import them into your country and keep kicking them. You are complicit in the behavior of your government, just like I am. Silence is consent, but to keep funding it goes beyond simple silent consent. Its a hard fact for most people to accept: that they own the atrocities of the government they elect and fund.

Right. I am not silent at all.

I never voted for a party that actually made it into the government.

If I don't pay taxes I will get thrown in jail.

So how is this my fault?

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
a reply to: uncommitted

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

You said this, I responded. We were not discussing the relevance of the mention of a koran?

All the possession of a copy of the koran means on face value is that the person had a copy of the koran in their possession - no more, no less.

But he had two guns and a koran. How is it not relevant after recent shooting in France by people yelling ALLAHU ACKBAR!

Don't be so daft.

Because at this point there is nothing to suggest this was a terrorist based incident. It's absolutely right to arrest and question someone carrying firearms where by local laws they shouldn't be, anything over and above that is your speculation based on someones reading habits.

You tell me not to be so daft, I offer you that perhaps you shouldn't be so knee jerk in your assumptions.

a reply to: NeoSpartan

Like me, your government represents you and your countrymen. If you don't exert control over them, who will?

I keep asking my own countrymen these same questions.

a reply to: uncommitted

Because at this point there is nothing to suggest this was a terrorist based incident.

Yes at this point.

But you said this,

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

Since this happened in France after the recent jihad shootings it is a completely logical thought. The fact that later info didn't point to terrorism doesn't change that it is a logical assumption.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

your government represents you and your countrymen.

No they don't. I just told you that no party I ever voted for has ever been part of my government. They don't represent a big group of my countrymen either.

And even if I did vote for a party that is in the government, are you really so naive that you think that every decision they make represents the will of the people?

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: anxiouswens
Sounds like the Frenchies caught themselves a fundamentalist Christian terrorist.

Huh? That's sarcasam I assume? A Koran in his bag? Nope, definitely a muslim.

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
a reply to: uncommitted

Because at this point there is nothing to suggest this was a terrorist based incident.

Yes at this point.

But you said this,

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

Since this happened in France after the recent jihad shootings it is a completely logical thought. The fact that later info didn't point to terrorism doesn't change that it is a logical assumption.

A koran and TWO handguns at a Disney theme park for kids in France. What do you think he was up to? His female companion high-tailed it and police are still looking for her. If it quacks lie a duck - it's most likely a duck.

a reply to: NeoSpartan

What the guy is telling you is just classic aplogist US paranoia. The muslim invasion has nothing to do with you being in France - it is about you not being muslim. It's about you being a westerner. I'm so sick of hearing all this bleeding heart PC nonsense. If some people love the ME so much, they should move there. I would however give them a little if any chance of receiving the kind of understanding the West gives the muslims who invade your country. And if you started doing what many of these migrants are doing currently in Europe - you would be arrested and killed in no time at all.
Looks to me like the French just averted another massacre by a hairs breadth...

originally posted by: jimbo999

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
a reply to: uncommitted

Because at this point there is nothing to suggest this was a terrorist based incident.

Yes at this point.

But you said this,

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

Since this happened in France after the recent jihad shootings it is a completely logical thought. The fact that later info didn't point to terrorism doesn't change that it is a logical assumption.

A koran and TWO handguns at a Disney theme park for kids in France. What do you think he was up to? His female companion high-tailed it and police are still looking for her. If it quacks lie a duck - it's most likely a duck.

www.bbc.com...

The police have arrested the girlfriend,and ruled out the terrorism. But who cares about the facts, right ?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: uncommitted

To be fair, you are correct. My mistake.

That said, it doesn't impact the sentiment of what I stated: that the author of the article made the connection. We are just discussing it.

Most of us do discuss without prejudice, many of us tend not to jump to conclusions before all facts are known, some enter the debate with a pre-determined view of what happened and why based on their own prejudice - sometimes of course that may turn out to be correct, many times it will not. I know you fall into the first and second categories, and I always endeavour to ensure I follow your example.

Most of us do, you are right. And I think that the majority of what we see today as "prejudice" that is rearing its head has more to do with the social upheaval that most folks realize is coming to Europe. Which, honestly, is nothing new. Folks have been immigrating from the Middle East/North Africa into Europe and create upheavel since before humans were "Anatomically Modern Humans".

Hogwash.
What is happening in Europe right now is unprecedented in recent history. Comparing to the post-WWII migrant situation is also completely innacurate. Generally speaking, post-WWII migrants were actually fleeing war and poverty - and they were not running around shooting, raping, and attacking the very people who were offering them shelter. Odd huh?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: Byrd

What's happened to all the folks who support the 2nd Amendment? It doesn't say "guns permitted EXCEPT if you're Black/Muslim/Afghani/etc/etc." It applies to everyone, rich or poor, and no matter what religion. You could walk around carrying a legal long gun and books on whatever religion you like, under the law.

While the event here happened in France (not the US)....this is something that needs to be repeated and repeated.

To me, the fact that a koran was present and is being reported as if relevant is as prejudiced as anything I have seen in the last 30 years. With this whole Syria thing, its almost like EUrope decided to import some second class citizens to kick around.

It's a good thing you are not in Europe. Have you ever been to Europe? You don't seem to have any idea of what it is like in Europe. Your comments are bizarre and totally uninformed about the situation there. Not to mention completely biased. Europe is NOT Texas by the way. People can't walk around with a piece in their belts like you can. They are basically defenceless. Not that you seem to care...

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
a reply to: uncommitted

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

How many terrorist attacks have happened in France in the name of christianity, lately, as opposed to in the name of islam?

Answer - None.

Looks like ATS is now following the PC agenda with zeal. Censorship seems to be rearing it's ugly head, and only Politically Correct opnions will count now. Even the moderators are now joining in. Sad to see. I have been a member of ATS for nearly 10 years, and have loved this site for most of them. It has always been a beacon of light and a meeting place of the intelligent, the whacky, and the free spirits of the Web. Now it's increasingly looking like the PC social censorship brigade are taking over ATS and stymying free speech even here. It's a sad day ndeed.

a reply to: jimbo999

I have to disagree with you on that though. I didn't see ATS staff interfere much at all in threads about this subject.

This is just his opinion as a member.

I see they caught the perpetrator's girlfriend. I've not heard any more information concerning the boyfriend however. Did he have a permit? According to the BBC source:

The man had said he was carrying the weapons because he feared for his safety, according to the source.

That's understandable. However, he certainly must have known the he was going through security. And possession of firearms is strictly controlled in France.

And, as I've said in a previous post, the fact he was carrying a Koran is an important fact. While it is unfortunate that we have to be suspicious of someone who practices any specific religion, the context here is important. Regardless of whether the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful or not, atrocities have been committed in the name of their religion. Any evidence that might tie together a serious incident involving illegal weapons with the potential for terrorism must be considered in any investigation.

Some interesting points:
1. A young man was carrying illegal firearms in his luggage.
2. He was in possession of those firearms at a location that doesn't even allow legal firearms.
3. He was in possession of a Koran, the Scripture of a religion widely associated with terrorism.
4. His girlfriend made no attempt to support her boyfriend. Points to someone who knew what was happening was illegal.
5. She seamlessly melted into the crowd like a ghost. What I would suspect from someone with covert training.

All of these points indicate to a great many people in Europe and the US that there was terrorism involved, whether it was or not. But, his actions indicate to me that he was either very naive about the security measures at the hotel, or he wanted to get caught. I believe it was the latter.

I find this quote interesting, from the same BBC article:

President Francois Hollande is seeking to extend France's state of emergency for another three months, despite opposition from human rights groups.

This makes me question this whole incident. Certainly some us on ATS are more suspicious of incidents like this, but we are not unique. I'm beginning to wonder whether this was a so-called false-flag event. Perhaps it is a little demonstration perpetrated by someone interested in maintaining the current state of emergency.

Now, even though it appears that the authorities don't believe this event was terror related, it has reminded the good citizens of Paris, and the rest of the world for that matter, that they are still at risk for future terrorism.

-dex

originally posted by: NeoSpartan
a reply to: uncommitted

Because at this point there is nothing to suggest this was a terrorist based incident.

Yes at this point.

But you said this,

I think some people on ATS see gun + koran = IS terrorist. Now, if it was gun + bible, what would they then think?

Since this happened in France after the recent jihad shootings it is a completely logical thought. The fact that later info didn't point to terrorism doesn't change that it is a logical assumption.

Yes it does, it means don't jump to conclusions before you know the facts.

a reply to: NeoSpartan

No.

And its not like i am telling you something that we practice here in the US....but if you government fails to represent the populace, its the responsibility of the populace to repair.

Regardless, this all stems from media making sure they point out that this is a muslim. Fanning the flames.

a reply to: jimbo999

It is a good thing Im not in Europe. You are right. I can barely tolerate the laws we have here....if i were jailed for telling someone off it would literally push me over the edge.

I don't have it perfect here....but im not a sitting duck either.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Terrorism carried out in the name of Islam, is Islamic terrorism. There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world, and according to all statistics anywhere from 15-25% of all Muslims are radicalized in the name of their religion. This leaves anywhere from 75-85% of all Muslims as peaceful people however, that puts the number of radicals anywhere between 270 to 450 million people who are radicalized in the name of Islam, who likely desire to fight and die for their religious beliefs.

It is an ideology within a religion whose followers nearly equal the population of the United States. This is a very large number of people, who hide behind the peaceful majority. Historically, the peaceful majority do not matter. In WW2 Germany the majority of Germans were peaceful and even though they existed, the radical minority took control and were responsible for millions and millions of deaths. The peaceful majority is irrelevant throughout history, time and time again.

It is time to put an end to political correctness. We MUST learn how to deal with that threat and it is disingenuous and little more than an attempt to sweep the problem itself under the rug to say that there are absolutely no ties with Islam in the minds of those indoctrinated to radical Islam. We all understand most Muslims are peaceful, but when the numbers of radicals are so large and all Islamic terror attacks worldwide (an estimated 19,000 since 9/11 world wide) have been carried out in the name of the religion of Islam, with history showing us the irrelevance of the peaceful majority, we must face the fact there is an ideological connection in the minds of the radicalized minority, whose sheer number is a force to be reckoned with.

Anyone in France having a number of unlicensed weapons on their person has committed a crime. Most people do not commit such crimes without the intent of getting away with an even greater crime. For someone to say they had a Quran therefore there lies a possibility of this being a thwarted terror attack is doing nothing but addressing facts rather than sweeping the problem under the rug.

Without addressing there is a problem, a resolution to it can never be reached.