Oregon protest leader Ammon Bundy is arrested, says source

Ok, i've been trying to figure this out but there are some confusing parts of this whole "bundy" thing that i'm trying to figure out. So Clive Bundy was a rancher that was using government land to feed his cows on, some things changed (something about a endangered turtle) and he was asked to reduce the number of cattle he was grazing on the federal land. So instead of reducing the number of cattle he stopped paying the grazing fee altogether for 20 years, and increased his cattle. Ok, so how much land does bundy actually own in relation to the number of cattle he has? I mean, if he only owns and was paying property taxes on a couple hundred acres but was feeding his cattle from thousands of acres of federal land then that is a little selfish, but I can't find that information anywhere. So at some point he decided it was his right to benefit from land that wasn't his and he wasn't paying taxes on (or fees). I can't figure out how this makes sense. But somehow this made sense to a lot of people, because people showed up with guns to defend his cows from getting confiscated, cows that he's been fattening up on land that doesn't belong to him (and never did).

Ok, now on to Ammon Bundy. So he doesn't like the BLM, but the wildlife refuge he's occupying is owned by the national fish and wildlife service, they have nothing to do with grazing rights. But he wanted to occupy it indefinitely and "Turn the land back over to the people." What does that mean? Does that mean he thinks all government held land should be given to private owners? The national forest? The State Parks? Does he really think its a good idea to let private corporations just log and mine the hell out of the federal land? so you can't go for a walk in the forest without seeing fences and "No trespassing" signs? Who exactly is going to decide who gets all this land?

I'm not a big fan of the government in most situations, but the arguments these people are making don't make any sense other than basically "I want to make more money."

a reply to: Slanter

You know what's weird is that the Feds don't want these ranchers cows eating some grass on land they don't use but they have no problem selling the mineral and drilling rights to mega corps with Dick Cheney and a Rothchild involved in the management process.

Interesting isn't it?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

People claimed Mike Brown was also on his knees with his hands up when he was killed, complete with saying "I give up."

I wouldn't accept the Feds saying that all the militia bailed out of their vehicles with guns blazing at face value. I'm not willing to accept the whole he was on his knees surrendering at face value either.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: pteridine

How do you have any knowledge of what was desired and what the truth really is? No one yet knows the details.

I have already posted on this thread, for everyone to wait until we get the full story. Apparently you didn't read my post.

Apparently, you didn't read your post either. You stated "You are correct the militia were on their way to a meeting with residents.

I am reading different Press releases demonizing the militia as if they all wanted the shooting to happened.

That couldn't be any further from the truth."

How do you know what couldn't be further from the truth?

a reply to: Shamrock6

I think that's a wise stance to take for now too.

I shall await more news.

a reply to: pteridine

How do you know what could be "further from the truth?"

Stop baiting.

If you do not have anything to contribute to this thread, perhaps move on to a different topic.

This thread is not about me.

a reply to: Informer1958

You're at fault on that count.

a reply to: onequestion

You know what's weird is that the Feds don't want these ranchers cows eating some grass on land they don't use but they have no problem selling the mineral and drilling rights to mega corps with Dick Cheney and a Rothchild involved in the management process.

Interesting isn't it?

Yes, and not to mention the millions of acres of land the BLM set fire to. And they are worried about some cows eating some grass.

a reply to: onequestion

From the stuff i'm reading it was necessary to save and endangered turtle. Businesses don't like it (Remember the spotted owl ruckus from the 90s? Man, logging companies HATED that owl) but you risk a species going extinct because the cows need the land. Cows are not endangered.

I'm still curious on how much land he actually owns and paid property taxes on in relation to the land he was allowed to graze for 20 years without paying fees.

a reply to: Informer1958

If you don't want this thread "To be about you" then perhaps stop spouting off about things you clearly have no experience, expertise or insight into.

a reply to: Slanter

It is HIS land...

Sorry for one line post.

-SAP-

originally posted by: Shamrock6
I'm not willing to accept the whole he was on his knees surrendering at face value either.

While it's a shame to say it, I don't trust the accounts of either side.

I hope someone, either side, got video.

Further, I really, really hope that if there IS video, if the guy had his hands up, that you don't get the "I felt he was coming right for me", "he reached for my weapon", "I had to act before he did because I think I thought there was a gun hidden from my sight he was thinking about reaching for", "I want to go home at the end of my shift" dialog, followed by a prosecutor waving a gavel over the LEO's head and saying "Ego te absolvo, fortis militis".

Conversely, if the guy DID have a weapon, well, he knew the job was dangerous when he took it.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Isn't that the definition of a rebel?

Interesting.

What should Americans do when their government turns Tyrannical?

a reply to: SloAnPainful

Ok, explain to me how it's his land, cause all the stuff i'm reading said it was federal land that he'd been paying grazing fees on until 1993.

originally posted by: SloAnPainful
...and there dies the Americans who truly fought for their right and their people... With many others... Freedom has all but been extinguished.

-SAP-

What the crap, melodrama much? Seizing & squatting in federal buildings, going all Grand Theft with federal vehicles, eff me, they're goddamn criminals, no matter how much lipstick you plaster on that pig of a group.

They got what they earned & deserved, ultimately. One will have an eternity to ponder if it was worth it, while the rest have a nice loooooong time topside to do the same.

originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: Informer1958

If you don't want this thread "To be about you" then perhaps stop spouting off about things you clearly have no experience, expertise or insight into.

let me hear an amen.

a reply to: Informer1958

The answer is a government has never gone tyrannical.

That's what they want you to believe.

If you haven't noticed our government spends all its money solving all the wrong problems.

Just look at how asinine the drug war is and how many lives it's ruined. Just ask Mexico.

Forget it.

I guess all the pressure from the local, Native Americans and the state of Oregon finally got some somebody to do something. I am sure their will be plenty of police cam footage. Because lets face it if you believe they killed one guy on his knees then their is zero reason that they would not have done them all.

With polling showing these guys have almost no support and demands increasing that something be done it was only a matter of time. The ironic thing is if these guys were unarmed peaceful type local protesters they would would likely have a great deal of support. However armed men showing up, unwanted and unwelcomed is not something that is ever going to get support, in particular when you start with the mission from God nonsense.

a reply to: Nyiah

Yeah so was George Washington and everyone who signed the Declaration of Independence.

But you just want to ignore that don't you?