The Straw that breaks the camel's back

a reply to: eXia7
I suppose that you'd have to comfortable being labelled a terrorist. I seem to remember someone saying that Wolverine once said in a comic book that terrorists is just what the big army calls the little army.

I think most revolutions are just the result of chaotic uprisings, I doubt many people share the same vision of the future.

ATS being delusional again, unaware of the rest of the country, half of which hates the other half. If you are REALLY talking "rebellion" as in "armed conflict" then it wouldn't be so much rebellion against the government, but fighting against each other, left wing "commies" versus right wing "loonies." (Um, so to speak.) Each general groups has a totally different idea of which direction we ought to be going.

And very few people are willing to take up arms. Most do not know even how. And even if you have your Glock 19 in a trusty holster and are motivated, you won't stand a chance against any typical National Guard unit. And if you tried to organize a larger group, the Feds would know about it within hours of its conception.

Now, someone said "Occupy Wall Street almost did it!"

Nonsense. A few kids pooping on cop cars while yelling, "Smash the state!" doesn't cut it. All they did is get cold and trash the place with their own waste while throwing McDonald's Quarter Pounder with cheese boxes around. They made a disgusting mess, engaged in petty larceny and vandalism against small businesses, and generally showed themselves to be self-indulgent, clueless idiots the rest of the country laughed at with scorn.

The way this "rebellion" will happen, if it does, is through the ballot box if people are finally compelled to REALLY "throw the bums out" instead of just talk about it. And that will likely be from a populist movement with extreme right wing elements. It is the result of THAT election that has the potential to destroy the country. It wonlt be with a bang.

It will be with a whimper.

a reply to: eXia7

Simple answer there: the 2nd Amendment. They come after that and my wife and I are outa here in a heartbeat. There's no way we could live in the US as "disarmed"; its just too dangerous.

a reply to: eXia7
I think censorship of the internet, I would assume more surveillance of phone calls goes with that. Then you wouldn;t be able to talk about guns or brain implants or corruption with anyone else to form a revolt.

My back is already broken I'm just waiting for the situation to hit critical mass.

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: eXia7

Simple answer there: the 2nd Amendment. They come after that and my wife and I are outa here in a heartbeat. There's no way we could live in the US as "disarmed"; its just too dangerous.

Where would you go? Canada? They have stricter laws. The UK? Stricter than Canada. Australia? Already confiscated. India? (Just looking for English-speaking countries here.) Nope. Anywhere else? Some island?

originally posted by: onequestion
My back is already broken I'm just waiting for the situation to hit critical mass.

What will you do? Shoot someone? Who? March in the street with a poster? Join a "rebellion group" so you can be a bigger target? Pee on a police car?

originally posted by: MrSpad
Modern revolts tend to be the result of long term economic problems added to heavy handed government tactics. When food gets expensive and your college age citizen suffer from very high unemployment you get discontent. Elimination of democracy, removing opposition parties and removing free press and expression, random murders of "disloyal" citizens and basically removing peoples abilities to blow off steam. These are all key pressure points for a revolt. Shooting of unarmed protesters tends to be the match that starts the fire. That brings dissatisfaction within the military and when then that happens side changes begin and a true revolt will begin. You basically have to push people to a point where turning your nation into warzone like Syria is preferred to everyday life. Of course you would then need outside backing. Americans for instance have guns but, they would be worthless in a modern conflict. The logistics of supplying and maintaining so many different type weapons would be impossible, not to mention training and operations being near impossible as well. So and outside source of weapons with standard ammo would be need ASAP so the population could be rearmed and trained by military that change sides. Of course in the US, if the population is armed they are likely to shoot at the troops first and ruin any sympathy the rebels would gain from being peaceful and unarmed. It is ironic that being armed would likely make a revolt harder in the US.

I tend to agree and your point about outside supply of arms is one that I have thought about too. We have a large number of veterans and others that could produce a rather large army quickly. The Michigan militia was commanded by ex special force operators and officers back in the late 90's when I had ties to the area. However, the two issues I see is what the US Military does and what kind of outside support we would receive.

The first is all important and the military is just our own brothers and sisters literally. I would not put it past them if the country looked like it was going to implode to establish martial law and at the same time arrest the corrupt officials needing it most. This would happen more readily if they had a Commander in Chief that would support such a revolutionary change to the course of the country. I have spoken with a lot of soldiers and agents in the last 15 years and most of them would join the citizens in making government constitutionally pass muster. The only thing that would cause them to attack citizens is if they felt their lives were in danger. That is a critical point that the 'revolutionaries' would need to consider and make sure didn't happen. The military I doubt would be able to control the country unless they had outside support and that is a hitch. They couldn't control Afghanistan and Iraq which were the size of single states. What would countries like China, Russia, etc. do to support the citizens in an effort to see the US Government go away? They could supply arms and training that would bring the country to its knees. Then what? Would they invade? I am not sure they would as the military would still be in control of the nuclear SLBM's and ICBM's. The whole world is about fed up with our military expeditions around the globe. Mexican drug cartels would probably be fighting along the Southern border for territory and to support their La Raza cause if the country was falling apart.

I wouldn't rule out the arms that people own so fast either. After all in a guerrilla campaign they would be pretty effective (AK47's and AR15's not to mention sniper capable arms) and would result in more arms being taken from armories and troops around the country. Still, the civilian arms wouldn't last long and if the military doesn't join the citizens then outside supply would be critical. To do that would probably mean having some leaders in exile making arrangements prior to things going South. I would think that the Chinese and even Russia has plans to supply an insurgency force. After all, we have a lot of society that believes in the socialist type governments that Russia and China have been. Taking the US down happens to match their needs and wants very well.

a reply to: eXia7
I've heard one guy say that if they ever banned NFL or NASCAR he would riot. Never mind something that actually matters like massive government corruption or anything like that.

a reply to: schuyler

Stop being rediculous.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: eXia7
I think censorship of the internet, I would assume more surveillance of phone calls goes with that. Then you wouldn;t be able to talk about guns or brain implants or corruption with anyone else to form a revolt.

I feel like censorship of the internet would be at the top of the list with gun confiscation and economic collapse. It's used so widely not only as a platform for your voice, but it has paved the way for business. If the government took total control over the internet, then I'd be mad for sure.

Here is another question I'd like to pose to ATS. How would you even know if the revolution was happening? How do you determine if a group is fighting for a cause, that its the right cause?

How does (1) person actually force change? How does (1) person convince the collective? It seems that revolution is a lot more complicated than some realize, including myself.

For the average american.. when they cant feed their kids.. be it food stamps goes belly up... or nothing makes it to the grocery store.. then you will see full scale chaos.

for about 5-10% of the population.. I dunno everyone has their own breaking point.

a reply to: Irishhaf

It's almost there. The food pantries and honeless and service for the needy have tapped out to the max. On top of that Obama just cut government funding for honeless services such as transitional housing. Most of these programs are utilized by women with children. Section 8 is taxed to the max as well as affordable housing.

It's going to change weather anyone likes it or not.

I'm on an iPhone so forgive my grammatical errors but you get the point.

originally posted by: Skid Mark
a reply to: eXia7
I've heard one guy say that if they ever banned NFL or NASCAR he would riot. Never mind something that actually matters like massive government corruption or anything like that.

Lol, I remember when the whole if Darryl Dixon dies we riot bit. Apparently people like to riot after disasters, and sports games.. but when freedom is under assault, "nahhhh I'm too tired im going to sleep"

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: schuyler

Stop being rediculous.(sic)

Why not answer the question?

You guys talk really big, but when it comes right down to it, you won't do jack. You do not have the training. You do not have the means or resources. You do not have the discipline. You do not have the wherewithal to affect change. You aren't going to "rebel" in the strict sense of the word. You may yell a lot. You may complain a lot. If the power goes out you may riot and burn a few buildings--usually of small business owners in your own neighborhood who are in the same position as you are.

The 'rebel talk' on ATS is completely toothless--and "ridiculous."

a reply to: schuyler

You've made many wonderful assumption but little do you know.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: schuyler

You've made many wonderful assumption but little do you know.

You got me quakin' in my boots now!

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: schuyler

Stop being rediculous.(sic)

Why not answer the question?

You guys talk really big, but when it comes right down to it, you won't do jack. You do not have the training. You do not have the means or resources. You do not have the discipline. You do not have the wherewithal to affect change. You aren't going to "rebel" in the strict sense of the word. You may yell a lot. You may complain a lot. If the power goes out you may riot and burn a few buildings--usually of small business owners in your own neighborhood who are in the same position as you are.

The 'rebel talk' on ATS is completely toothless--and "ridiculous."

Perhaps it is the internet that has caused people to be apathetic. Having an outlet to vent to (ATS) or some other forum might help people feel better, and they feel as if their voice is affecting change, but meanwhile it's doing the opposite, kind of acting like a pressure release valve that releases enough frustration it keeps people content.

I'm not poking fun at any particular user, I'm just interested to know "what are the ingredients for revolution" so to speak.

a reply to: eXia7

Well then maybe you found the straw. No more internet for the majority of the population and no more outlet.

a reply to: schuyler

I've learned a few lessons in life in my professional career....

One is to never assume.

Another one is to never underestimate your opponent.

In fact, a third, and this one is a scarier I learned the hard way.

You never know who your dealing with.

These are three key things I think you should keep in mind when dealing with anyone. I've also made no claims other than saying that I'm waiting for critical mass. You have no idea what that means.

Your the one with the tough guy attitude and I highly recommend taking my advice.