Would you support social engineering aimed at reforming Islam?

a reply to: DJW001

That's cool, you should learn about all the evil # Israel does behind the scenes. Never mind they stole a country that they had no right to occupy and created the largest reugee camp in the world in the process. I guarantee Islam is not going anywhere. They have great countries and countries that suck. America has more Muslim allies than enemies and have business together and all wars are staged for the benefit of a few people. The truth and what you hear are two species. Don't blame religion for chaos in the Levant and Iraq, America starts # it can't finish. Lotta good the iraq war did. America tortures too. It ain't got nothing to do with Islam. People fight for money, power, or glory. Religion is an excuse for the dumb masses to by into so they don't think it's about money. Israel id an illegal nation.

a reply to: TheTory

Muslims can get a sex change and still be Muslim, try that at a typical Christian church. Muslims don't kill people for not believing. Christianity did that for a thousand years and persecuted every one who had a non Christian thought. Islam ushered in an age of prosperity in the east that made destitute European monarchies and the Pope jealous so they rampaged there way to Jerusalem and killed anyone in the city. Christianity has a more disgusting history than any religion on earth. True terrorists.

a reply to: DJW001

No Russia and America are pulling the strings in syria. Muslims are.getting # on by the Jewish media and you buy it like a good sheep

It looks like a verbal proxy war in here! Israel is evil, Muslims are evil... with people supporting their favorite players. How about people just let others live like they want, and we won't have a problem! What my neighbor does with their time is none of my concern, unless it affects me or my family!

Py

a reply to: pyguy

I'm just telling the truth, people want to trash Islam I give them a history lesson. Ignorance is too common to just ignore, it's going to backfire and Christianity is going to look stupid, as usual.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant


First, women are protected by the Qur'an, not oppressed by it. In fact, when compared to the Bible, the Qur'an gives far more rights to women.

Western women don't need the protection of the Qur'an. The Law grants them

equal rights!

A woman who has to shroud herself from head to toe and cover her face, who

has to be escorted in public by a male family member, and in some

countries is not allowed to drive. IS oppressed.

The Qur'an even guarantees women the rights to divorce & to receive inheritances (and an ex-husband has to keep taking care of her until she remarries, which is essentially alimony)

Again she does not need the Qur'an for that. The LAW grants her those

rights anyway.

Female genital mutilation isn't in the Qur'an

Which countries/cultures practice it? Not in the west...not Christian

(neither is circumcision, for that matter).

???? So who gets their male children circumcised apart from the Jews?????

And "honor killings" is against the Qur'an, which states that anyone who intentionally kills a believer will go to Hell.

Honour killings mainly in the Pakistani culture. and what it the majority

religion of Pakistan?

To further emphasize the point, my mom's also a Muslim. And she's a homeowner, is a retired teacher, is a voter, is highly educated, and taught me how to drive. She fits none of the stereotypes about Islam and yet her situation isn't even rare.

LOL!! Let me hazard a guess.... your mom lives in the west!!?

There are people all over the world who get angry for different reasons. Saying that Islam needs to "reform" because of the anger of a Muslim that commits a crime is no different than me saying Christianity needs to "reform" since so many self-described Christians in America get angry and commit crimes.

Yes there are sick people every where who commit crimes ... However how

many of them do so shouting in the name of Allah as to how many do so in

the name of Jesus?

I can't get behind trying to force people in their beliefs.

I could only support something like this if it were part of a spontaneous movement to arise from within the Islamic faith itself.

They need to begin their own movement, not have it imposed. After all, isn't it one of there own phrases that there is no compulsion in religion?

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: Gnosisisfaith
Islam is superior to Christianity in every way

WHO SAYS?

That is an opinion! NOT a fact.

When was the last Christian Beheading or crucifiction

a reply to: eletheia

And I was circumcised, now I find out sex would be more pleasurable if I wasn't circumcised. I was born roman Catholic. I want my foreskin back, I was mutilated against my will. That happens every day in America are you bitching about that? How about all the neighborhoods we bomb every day? What are you doing to help the oppressed? I'm a proud Muslim and people like you make me know I made the right decision taking shahada.

a reply to: eletheia

Ever heard of the crusades? The inquisition? According to Christianity, God had to have his son murdered before he would fogive sin.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

This thread is about using social engineering to change Islam, not why Jews and Christians are evil. You have made your hatreds clear. You have also given no indication that you understand the first thing about your adopted faith. You have swallowed the propaganda that all of the evils suffered by Muslims are the result of outside forces. Whereas its true that the desire to ensure a supply of oil has caused outside forces to meddle in the Islamic heartland, the chaos in Africa and South Asia is entirely on Islam. The ummah has allowed their religion to be used by violent actors and have done nothing to educate the younger generation to avoid being manipulated. Instead, you deny and excuse. By not opening your eyes, you are choosing for the Islamic Reformation, which is going on whether you see it or not, to be bloody and self destructive.

Please educate yourself. Hating Jews and Christians does not make you a Muslim; submitting to God's will does. Does God want young girls to be kidnapped and sold as sex slaves? Does God want tourists to be killed while they dine at a restaurant? Does God have no sense of humor? If you answered "yes," what sort of God are you submitting to? It's time for Muslims to forget about Jihad and start practicing Ijtihad.

a reply to: DJW001

All I did was make it clear if Islam needs reform, so do Judaism and Christianity. What I hate is the hatred. Don't single out one religion. If you want to talk about general religious reform without singling out Islam, I wont talk about the evil # jews and Christians do. This is a bias topic I'm just being fair and honest. Who you gonna socially engineere when you are done with Islam. Just because I mentioned the evil deeds of jews and Christians doesn't mean I hate them. My dr is Jewish, and awesome. My Sister is Christian, nicest person in the world. Whoever is ok with the prospect of religious reform through social engineering is a sick, ignorant person.

a reply to: Gnosisisfaith

All religion is social engineering. Both Judaism and Christianity have undergone their reformation, and can function in the modern world. Islam is now struggling to become a modern, relevant religion. This cannot be imposed from outside. If you are a Muslim, it is your duty to help shape the Islam of the future; if you do not, your religion's future will be determined by Daesh and Boko Haram.

a reply to: DJW001

Social engineering is a useless term.

a reply to: DJW001
Islam has been relevant for a long time. Even ushered in a golden age of prosperity and scientific discovery until the destitute European monarchies and the Pope launched the crusades. Truly a stain on Christianity.

a reply to: tadaman

I really think that as a human race it would be more culturally advantageous to use social engineering to deconstruct religion entirely. This however is my own opinion.

There is no longer a need for religion, in my point of view, mainly because it has served it's purpose as a guiding stone towards a more morally conscious society.

a reply to: DJW001
If you think Islam is to blame for the state of the middle east, and America is this harmless dove who never causes trouble, you are asleep. Remember that invasion of Iraq, done under a false pretense, that is why that area is #ed up. Stop pretending you know what happens in the world when you're oh so obviously clueless. Social engineering? I say it again, its spiritual eugenics we are talking about. Junk science. Even sounds like a nazi term. I can picture Hitler preaching social engineering. Fix your life. Worry about your problems. This premise isvthe religious equivalent of racism. Try suggesting that about another cause, one it can actually help. Whoever created this post is a biggot. Suggest it about something besides religion, as they are autonomous under US law and you can't legally do anything about that. We have separation of church and state just for that reason and it is un American to suggest imposing on anyone's religion. And illegal. Your basically a criminal.

a reply to: Enlil2215
It is illegal via the US Constitution to infringe on another's religious freedom. Social engineering is a euphemism for politics, isn't social engineering what government does? It's a stupid term. Social engineering is what the cfr and such groups do, and it only helps rich people.

originally posted by: Gnosisisfaith
a reply to: DJW001
Islam has been relevant for a long time. Even ushered in a golden age of prosperity and scientific discovery until the destitute European monarchies and the Pope launched the crusades. Truly a stain on Christianity.

You need to learn some history. The Arab Empire absorbed disparate cultures and formed a brilliant synthesis. Unfortunately, political systems based on inerrant dogma are inflexible, they eventually begin to decay. Whereas Byzantium decayed and eventually fell to the Turks, Western Christianity shattered. This led to decades of bloody warfare, but when the dust cleared, political systems based on reason began to appear. Freed from dogma, philosophers began to investigate the natural world and developed the sciences.

Meanwhile, the Islamic world clung to its medieval world view. By the nineteenth century, it was painfully obvious that European civilization was in the ascendant. That's why the Young Turks forced reform on the Ottoman Empire. That was the opening battle of the Islamic Reformation. The Ottoman Empire fell, but Turkey was reborn a modern nation-state, with secular institutions. It has since become so strong that it can challenge the Russian Empire once again.

The Salafists and similar groups began to coalesce into a reactionary movement. Abdulaziz ibn Abdul Rahman ibn Faisal ibn Turki ibn Abdullah ibn Muhammad Al Saud made a deal with these reactionaries to consolidate his control over the Arabian Peninsula, and they have been retarding Arabia's social and political process ever since.

Persians had always distinguished themselves from their Arab neighbors. They spoke an Indo-European language and chose to side with the Sh'ia when they adopted Islam. They, too, struggled to westernize, and by the end of the Second World War they found themselves in a strategic position in the emerging Cold War. The Russian Empire and the Persian Empire had long been at odds. Russia coveted Persia's access to the Gulf. Euro-American strategy saw Persia's co-operation as a bulwark against Soviet expansion, by hook or by crook. The Pahlavis were installed as Shah because of their alleged anti-Communism, but they were never really puppets. They were playing their own game. Long story short: the forces of reaction, exploiting the Marxist revolutionary fervor that came with Iran's rapid modernization, deposed the Shah and installed a theocratic "republic" based on an amalgam of Islamic and pagan ideas.

Are you following the plot here? The Russian Empire versus the Ottoman Empire. The forces of reaction in Arabia versus the westernizing Turks. Persian culture versus Arabic culture. The Russian Empire wanting what the Persian Empire has. What happens when you mix these elements together? (This is not a rhetorical question. I've noticed that your replies to my posts have little to do with what I actually say.)