Forcing the issue of Natural Born Citizenship: How to get standing to have the question resolved.

originally posted by: hellobruce
Ankeny v. Daniels

This case was not appealed to SCOTUS, as far as I can see. The Plaintiffs were also not attorneys.

BTW, using words like 'garbage' and 'crap' to reframe someone's argument doesn't do you any favors, IMO.

Proof that Ted Cruz did not become a US citizen at birth

www.examiner.com...
sorry if already posted

In order for Ted Cruz to have "become" a US citizen at birth in 1970, his mother would have had to retain exclusive citizenship to the US and filed a CRBA (Consular Report of Birth Abroad) to "obtain" exclusive US citizenship at the time for her son Ted and renounced his automatic "naturally acquired" Canadian citizenship. The process in itself is considered a very abbreviated form of "naturalization", thereby making such persons born outside of the OFFICIAL territories of the United States absolutely ineligible to become President of these United States in at least this one circumstance alone. Given that Canadian law did not allow dual citizenship at the time, then IF his mother filed a CRBA in 1970, his Canadian citizenship would likely have needed to be renounced before a new US citizenship could be granted.

Ted's Father has publicly admitted he became a Canadian citizen in 1968. If his mother's first husband with surname of "Wilson" was also a Canadian citizen (unconfirmed), she would have become a citizen before his father. Even if her first husband was not Canadian, according to Canadian law, she would still have automatically become a Canadian citizen in 1969 after having a Canadian spouse (Ted's Father) and residing in Canada for 1 year. This information substantiates the reports claiming that both of his parents appeared on the Canadian voter's rolls. There is now an unconfirmed claim that someone has supposedly verified that they indeed both voted in the October of 1972 federal Canadian election.

If both of Ted's parents became exclusive citizens of Canada by 1969, then even if his mother tried to file a CRBA, she would not have been able to confer US citizenship to her son as she was no longer a US citizen herself. Even if she somehow retained US citizenship, Ted could not have been granted dual citizenship as it was against Canadian law. The only thing that is certain is that Ted Cruz automatically became a Canadian citizen the instant he was born on Canadian soil and that fact is absolutely irrefutable. Likewise, the release of his mother's birth certificate certainly settles absolutely nothing.

a reply to: hellobruce

So no one is eligible to be President as you trust no BC's from anywhere....

Not exactly... more like I have no way of knowing if anyone is constitutionally eligible because there is no means by which to verify or establish their eligibility, and I cannot trust those in a position to verify/confirm their eligibility.

Hence my support for an official examination and declaration of exactly what a "natural born citizen" means for our purposes, and an official process by which candidates must demonstrate they fit that definition.

a reply to: hellobruce

Ah but an amended bc or one issued by court order because of adoption keeps the "original" or non-existent bc sealed.

The question would be:

Is a foreign born adopted person a "natural born citizen".

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: hellobruce

So you cannot trust the Dept of health announcements in the paper, nor any BC issued by any state....

Exactly.

At this point, I don't trust anyone in government about anything...

So no one is eligible to be President as you trust no BC's from anywhere....

It would be nice if the Hawaii Department of Health would verify the document for a requesting member of the public. If the record has already been made public, then there is no legitimate reason to keep the info private.

Of course, since they haven't, it would make it difficult to trust them even if they did now.

Obama personally 'released' a copy of his long form for Donald Trump, but let a soldier who did two tours spent a year in prison for asking to see it? That's actually enough for me to despise the man.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
but let a soldier who did two tours spend a year in prison for asking?

Nonsense, care to name that person?

Birthers are not about any document Obama released, especially as he has released more documents than previous Presidents!

originally posted by: xuenchen
Is a foreign born adopted person a "natural born citizen".

Obama was NOT foreign born, he was born in the USA!

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
but let a soldier who did two tours spend a year in prison for asking?

Nonsense, care to name that person?

Birthers are not about any document Obama released, especially as he has released more documents than previous Presidents!

Terry Lakin.

He was actually deployed six times. link

And we saw how authentic the Bush Killian documents were. It's one thing for someone to release their own records filtered through their handlers. It's another for the agency holding the record to verify them directly to a requesting voter.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
but let a soldier who did two tours spend a year in prison for asking?

Nonsense, care to name that person?

Birthers are not about any document Obama released, especially as he has released more documents than previous Presidents!

Terry Lakin.

He was actually deployed six times. link

And we saw how authentic the Bush Killian documents were. It's one thing for someone to release their own records filtered through their handlers. It's another for the agency holding the record to verify them directly to a requesting voter.

And, in fact, the HDOH personally told me they don't maintain the seal photographed on the back of Obama's short form COLB when I requested it through the Hawaii Uniform Information Practices Act...so there's that.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
Terry Lakin.

He was actually deployed six times. link

Did you bother to read that link?

Before Lakin went to court-martial, it was found by the judge that President Obama's eligibility (and hence his birth certificate) had no bearing on the case. Lakin pleaded guilty to two charges while pleading not-guilty to one other. Despite recanting his original concerns and asking the jury for leniency, Lakin was found guilty of all charges and sentenced to dismissal from the Army and a prison term of six months.

He did NOT spend a year in prison, and it was NOT for asking....

It's another for the agency holding the record to verify them directly to a requesting voter.

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

abcnews.go.com...

So you are wrong again!

So all the birther nonsense is not about any documentation Obama released!

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
And, in fact, the HDOH personally told me they don't maintain the seal photographed on the back of Obama's short form COLB when I requested it through the Hawaii Uniform Information Practices Act...so there's that.

That is your misunderstanding of what they said, they said they do not have what you claimed they used!

a reply to: hellobruce

Lakin wanted to see the long form, he refused to deploy without seeing it, and Obama pushed back. Lakin paid the price in prison.

Trump asked to see it and Obama relented -- oddly that was very shortly after the HDOH told me that they did not maintain the seal on the back of Obama's short form and I reported on it at my former blog.

I get the story, just fine.

originally posted by: hellobruce

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barrack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago...."

What you don't realize is that the statement from Fukino you quoted was issued directly FOR ME. I had that press release HOURS before any news outlet and reported that incident on TexasDarlin's blog.

Fukino wrote that statement in response to this question from me, on July 27, 2009:

"Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama's AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

So, yeah. Fukino VERIFIED to me personally that Obama has an amended birth certificate and other records to support the amendment, on file...not ON RECORD (like her previous statement indicated).

I actually based my question to her, that day, on this prior statement she had made (October 2008):

“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”

She responded by revising it IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, in response to my question

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
And, in fact, the HDOH personally told me they don't maintain the seal photographed on the back of Obama's short form COLB when I requested it through the Hawaii Uniform Information Practices Act...so there's that.

That is your misunderstanding of what they said, they said they do not have what you claimed they used!

Oh, ok. I sent them FACTCHECK'S PHOTOS and requested the seal photographed. So you agree, there is no misunderstanding.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
So you agree, there is no misunderstanding.

You are the one misunderstanding what they said....

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
So you agree, there is no misunderstanding.

You are the one misunderstanding what they said....

I am not misunderstanding anything. I sent them the photos Factcheck.org took of the seal, asked for a copy of the seal, and they responded by saying they do not maintain it.

a reply to: hellobruce

I sent them this photo: pic

And this one: pic

And asked for a copy of the seal photographed. They responded that they "do not maintain the seal requested."

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
They responded that they "do not maintain the seal requested."

How about you tell us exactly what you claimed the seal was... as I seem to remember you claimed it was reversed?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
They responded that they "do not maintain the seal requested."

How about you tell us exactly what you claimed the seal was...

I referred to it as "the seal impression visible in the attached photographs," and I attached the photographs.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
They responded that they "do not maintain the seal requested."

How about you tell us exactly what you claimed the seal was... as I seem to remember you claimed it was reversed?

Separate correspondences. I double, triple, quadruple, and quintuple checked that there was NO misunderstanding and that I was not mistaken.

I was not. mistaken. And I did that for people, like you, who would likely wonder if I was mistaken.

I wasn't.