New Evidence Suggests People Lived in the Arctic 45,000 Years Ago

a reply to: peter vlar

Sincerely appreciate the response. Bang-up job. I learned something. Something interesting. Again, thanks.

a reply to: Marduk

I'll dig it up in a moment, but to summarize it basically says there was either a huge impact or volcanic chain reaction that put so much particulate in the air that it blocked the sun kicking off the ice age ending the subtropical climate that was global around that time... years are difficult to calculate in the heat meat doesn't last that long in the refrigerator longer in the freezer even longer when found in there and de-thawed its age hard to determine... for a carcass being so old it is obvious by the picture it is still carrying quite a bit of stink as it is decomposing faster since being unearthed... the dating itself of when the species was active if that is the case may be longer or shorter as a result and dating possibly inaccurate due to the frozen stasis before being uncovered... but more than one catechism has occurred from findings of core samples so likely the dating is accurate but possibly points more towards when the great ice bridge occurred for mass migration across the continents.

here are several links
www.phactual.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

geography.howstuffworks.com...

originally posted by: BeefNoMeat
a reply to: peter vlar

Sincerely appreciate the response. Bang-up job. I learned something. Something interesting. Again, thanks.

Not a problem, I'm always happy to help when people are actually trying to understand or learn. It is typically a foreign concept on these boards. That one was on the house. Any future diatribes will require a credit card number and non-refundable deposit

a reply to: peter vlar

I'm on a budget. How about a monthly quota

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Marduk

I'll dig it up in a moment, but to summarize it basically says there was either a huge impact or volcanic chain reaction that put so much particulate in the air that it blocked the sun kicking off the ice age ending the subtropical climate that was global around that time...

You just half assed described any number of potential extinction level events that have occurred since life first emerged on Earth. It's a pretty vague, arbitrary and ambiguous statement.

years are difficult to calculate in the heat meat doesn't last that long in the refrigerator longer in the freezer even longer when found in there and de-thawed its age hard to determine...

These remains were dated using more than one methodology. First the layers above and then the layers below the remains were dated. Then using Accelerated Mass Spectrometry, muscle tissue, bone, hair and tibial collagen they were able to calculate the rations of carbon 12 to carbon 14 to determine the age of the remains to within a couple of thousand years margin of error.

for a carcass being so old it is obvious by the picture it is still carrying quite a bit of stink as it is decomposing faster since being unearthed...

You can determine smells from a photo? Outstanding!

the dating itself of when the species was active if that is the case may be longer or shorter as a result and dating possibly inaccurate due to the frozen stasis before being uncovered...

No. Whether the remains are freeze dried, sun dried or just dumped in a shallow grave has no bearing at all on the rations of 12C to 14C. With Accelerated Mass Spectrometry, you can count the individual atoms with very accurate results within a fairly small margin of error which is why when you get further into the article it gives a range of dates for when the Mammoth was alive.

but more than one catechism has occurred from findings of core samples so likely the dating is accurate but possibly points more towards when the great ice bridge occurred for mass migration across the continents.

Please don't take this as me being hostile but it's really driving me nuts... the word you are looking for is CATACLYSM. Catechism is essentially a summation of the principles and teachings of the Catholic Church. In Sunday school, the book from which you learn about the faith is the Catechism or sometimes the sunday school program is referred to as Catechism.

With that out of the way, there was no ice bridge. The amount of water locked up in glaciers resulted in much lower sea levels than we see today, increasing land mass and shorelines. The Bering Sea is a rather shallow body of water. With lower sea levels, the N. Eastern tip of Asia was connected to the N. Western tip of N. America. This new area of land is referred to as Beringia and it had a thriving ecosystem for many thousands of years. Humans and megafauna travelled and migrated back and forth until the sea levels rose enough that the Bering Strait again opened up. This was not a one time event and the Bering Strait has been dry land several times in Earths history. For the record, I don't know if you caught it when Marduk made mention, but we are currently still in an ice age.

here are several links
www.phactual.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

geography.howstuffworks.com...

These links are fine and dandy but they are nothing more than generalizations regarding potential effects and outcomes whereas you are referring to a specific event.

a reply to: namelesss

Because it seems science is actually the science of apologising lol

Why is it I'm always so sceptical when I read its by Russian scientists?
I shall look into it further....just in case its actually true for once

a reply to: peter vlar

very happy my curiosity of the op and possibilities it inspires is offensive enough to berate... body language speaks volumes aside from that remnants of meat are also visible. Anyway not here to debate the find just explore the topic, the side effect of that drawing your ire has to do with your reaction to information not mine

a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I think you have drastically over estimated my response. I was simply pointing out the flaws in your logic, lack of understanding of dating techniques, your overly ambiguous pretense and the correct word. For all I know it's merely a language barrier, I was simply pointing you in the right direction. But if spinning your wheels in mud makes you feel like you're speeding down the highway...who am I to judge?

originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: BigBrotherDarkness

I think you have drastically over estimated my response. I was simply pointing out the flaws in your logic, lack of understanding of dating techniques, your overly ambiguous pretense and the correct word. For all I know it's merely a language barrier, I was simply pointing you in the right direction. But if spinning your wheels in mud makes you feel like you're speeding down the highway...who am I to judge?

Well you seem to do a good job of judging mate
There are many here that enjoy threads like this and like to research more and learn from it. I am one of those. I love discovering new things and have no objection when the more knowledgable come along and inform. However, I have no time for pompous arrogant overbearing know it alls that dismiss all and everyone. There are ways of educating people and that's not one of them

This is not my subject so my knowledge is limited and joined in to a) learn more b) see if any of my opinions held water and c) links to further research NOT to be ridiculed or accused of being a religious fundamentalist which if I was surely that shouldn't be used as an insult

a reply to: Marduk

Anytime, bro. You're an easy mark.

a reply to: Ghost147

I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

The ancient Australians created rock art that is at least forty thousand years old-the world was a very different place back then.

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: Ghost147

I wouldn't doubt it for a second.

The ancient Australians created rock art that is at least forty thousand years old-the world was a very different place back then.

It's not so much the time frame that is interesting, but the location in which the find was discovered within the date in which the carcass had died.

originally posted by: Marduk
Why is it counter intuitive ?

what is counter-intuitive is the amount of area thought to have been covered by ice at that time yet Siberia and apparently parts of Alaska were temperate. How far down did the ice sheets go during this period 45,000 years ago? Why would this not be the same for parts of Alaska and Siberia like Yenisei Bay? These areas are in the Arctic Circle now yet during the last ice age the climate was temperate there.

By the way BeefNoMeat asked very nicely for a link yet I still see none. Do you have a link? Would you be so kind as to post a few links so some of us may discern for ourselves?

I just noticed peter vlar's post and am reading the links now. Thank you.

a reply to: Devino

I'm not sure ice free equates with temperate.

I can't find anything for 45,000 years ago, but this shows the situation for the last glacial maximum.
planet.botany.uwc.ac.za...

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: Ghost147

could it be the theorized volcanic ash that led to the ice age and mass extinction when the catechism that blocked out the sun for all those proposed years occurred? .

I can say with 100% certainty no books of the Bible ever blocked out the sun causing an ice age.
Cataclysm perhaps was the word your phone didn't want

On topic I have always believed man was around much earlier than we give credit for.
What I would have given to be among the first to arrive in the Americas and see megafauna like giant sloths and glyptodonts.
Smilodon and the huge bears of the day perhaps not so much.

What a great find !


This discovery makes sense when you think about it though.

Our ancestors were hunters/gatherers, which means they most likely travelled thousands of miles in their lifetimes following the herds across the large expanse of lands.

The herds would have travelled constantly back and forth across the continent, completely clearing out entire areas of vegetation throughout the seasonal changes... particularly mammoths because of their size and the amount of food they would need to consume.

So it only makes sense that humans would have done the same. Mammoths would have been a major resource for our ancestors - food, clothing, tools, etc.

Either that, or our ancestors set up home in an area that would be next door to the migrating pattern, meaning they would have had one or two hunting seasons in the year as the migrations passed through, stocking themselves up on food and resources for the year.

So I think it's safe to say that just about anywhere we find mammoth remains, we'll most likely find evidence of humans as well.



My personal opinion is that I think we've underestimated what the human populations actually were back in the day... with each new discovery, it seems to tell us that there were a hell of a lot more of us roaming around than originally thought.

a reply to: Ghost147

I have a feeling that deep below that ice we are gonna find civilazations going back even further

originally posted by: Phage
I'm not sure ice free equates with temperate.

I agree. The evidence seems to suggest that since plants, animals and humans existed there at that time it would have been temperate at least seasonally. I’m not sure the same could be said for similar latitudes on the other side of the planet at that time period ice or not.