Pakistan rejects bill to ban child marriage

a reply to: Jonjonj

Yet i hope .. SOMEDAY
There is certainly a throwback what it used to be. Not so long ago there were a possiblility to actual human rights for women and children but sadly religion messed it up with powerplay. No child should be married without a their consent, going back for centuries that was used to power up family name and prestige. In Western world religion nowadays is personal matter and not forced upon us, so child marriages also have lost their importance but in developing countries we still see this.. its climbing the ladder to get "power" even a little bit more ..

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: the owlbear

Exactly. In fact, many people in this very thread are hypocrites because underage marriage (aka "child marriage") is legal in Western countries too, particularly with judicial and/or parental consent. And here's a different ATS thread about this very issue in America (right here). For example, here's a quick wikipedia link showing marriage ages in different States in the US:

Age of marriage in the United States

According to it, New Hampshire allows weddings for 13 yr/old girls and 14 yr/old boys. This info may or may not be true, but it shows the blatant bias people have on this issue.

For the record, I think underage marriage is disgusting unless they're within the same age range. As in, if I had a daughter in high school, I'd rather she legally sign up to form a loyal union with someone (marriage) over her sleeping with random peers, getting pregnant, and the crap that comes with out of wedlock teen pregnancies (not to mention STDs).

You, or you and people like you, are exactly what is wrong with the world we live in today. No country should, by general law, allow for its children to be abused just because its majority religion, politics or sentiment say so. You sir are an apologist for abuse, and you should be ashamed.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

For the record, I think underage marriage is disgusting unless they're within the same age range. As in, if I had a daughter in high school, I'd rather she legally sign up to form a loyal union with someone (marriage) over her sleeping with random peers, getting pregnant, and the crap that comes with out of wedlock teen pregnancies (not to mention STDs).

NO. I grew up in Los Angeles area in the 50s (liberal compared to other areas)

Young girls were forced into marriage if they got pregnant. Its wrong. Not good for anyone, anytime.

Yes, the sexual freedom is scary - - but, still better to try to teach responsible behavior - - then an early forced marriage - - or even an early arranged marriage. BTW - I had two daughters.

Just my opinion.

NOTE: I am not against "arranged introductions" - - if both intended have the choice to say yes or no. Just force or coercion.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: Jonjonj

Yeah well

As a opinionated American I think they are wrong.

But that's just me. They can do pretty much what they want in their own country for whatever twisted reasons they so choose.

People like you, I apologise for being brunt, make me sick.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Do you honestly think those children in US are forced to marry by their parents or whatabout if the spouse is actually someone they choose to have. Do you honestly think that those in US who marry in their teenage years are forced to do so?
Lets take a child who has no understanding what is sexuality and what is "required" in marriage to be wedded off to older man ( usually ), does the child really understand what is happening.

I find it really revolting that there still seems to be people who sees these marriages acceptable and pointing out teenagers doing the same in other countries is like " it´s not that bad .. you are doing the same " when situation how those marriages happen is most likely very different.

originally posted by: Lysergic
Pedos do what pedos do.

Really seems like a safe space for pedos.


How 2016.

This isn't something to make light of or be flippant about.

a reply to: dollukka

You're the ones making biased assumptions. I'm from the South. I know full well that families here will force teenagers to get married if there's an unexpected pregnancy. I don't believe in forced marriages, but neither does the Qur'an. Patriarchal cultures do that because of their own misogynist interpretations.

Also, did you even read my post? I'm flat out against it unless they're in the same age range. Then again, I grew up among teen pregnancies from various demographics, as well as major STD epidemics (I even have family & friends with HIV and/or full blown AIDS). So I know for a fact that teenagers know more about sex than you seem to be implying. Or has it been that long since some of you were teenagers that you forgot about the raging hormones they have?

originally posted by: Jonjonj

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: the owlbear

Exactly. In fact, many people in this very thread are hypocrites because underage marriage (aka "child marriage") is legal in Western countries too, particularly with judicial and/or parental consent. And here's a different ATS thread about this very issue in America (right here). For example, here's a quick wikipedia link showing marriage ages in different States in the US:

Age of marriage in the United States

According to it, New Hampshire allows weddings for 13 yr/old girls and 14 yr/old boys. This info may or may not be true, but it shows the blatant bias people have on this issue.

For the record, I think underage marriage is disgusting unless they're within the same age range. As in, if I had a daughter in high school, I'd rather she legally sign up to form a loyal union with someone (marriage) over her sleeping with random peers, getting pregnant, and the crap that comes with out of wedlock teen pregnancies (not to mention STDs).

You, or you and people like you, are exactly what is wrong with the world we live in today. No country should, by general law, allow for its children to be abused just because its majority religion, politics or sentiment say so. You sir are an apologist for abuse, and you should be ashamed.

Really? You seem to be mixing forced marriage, child rape, and underage marriage, which are not the same things. I'm against forced marriages, even for adults. I'm against child rape, adult rape, and every other form of rape. And I'm against underage marriage unless they're in the same age range. I'd rather they marry each other than be promiscuous.

a reply to: Annee

I can respect your opinion but I never said anything about forced marriages. I think I already said everything else I was going to post in the rest of this post.

Pakistan rejects bill to ban child marriage

That is creepy on so many levels!

Really? You seem to be mixing forced marriage, child rape, and underage marriage, which are not the same things. I'm against forced marriages, even for adults. I'm against child rape, adult rape, and every other form of rape. And I'm against underage marriage unless they're in the same age range. I'd rather they marry each other than be promiscuous.

No, I am not mixing anything, perhaps you, in your desire to defend what you believe to be an attack on your religion, can't understand that this is child abuse.

If you could show me where I mixed rape, forced marriage and child marriage I would appreciate that.
I have a question for you. Do you condone child abuse "under certain circumstances"?

Let us be realistic here, honesty above all else. No true and honest human being would defend child abuse right?

Why then are you even arguing your case here?

I do not understand you people at all.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Yes i read your post it was .. let me point out about western hypocrites when they have the same ( tho teenagers.. which you didn´t point out .. i saw a agenda why not ). What you show with your reply was what i call "Hive mind" if religion your own is in stake you find something to show others that " you do the same " i guess and i give it to you as it is what you have been learnt and taught to do.. it was not a surprise.
Even now you say

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

Also, did you even read my post? I'm flat out against it unless they're in the same age range. .

Don´t you see what is wrong with that one ? No child should be married off without their consent and understanding what they are signed to do ? And no child actually can understand what it is all about untill they are in that age that they understand their own sexuality and responsabilities when it comes to being sexually active. Forced marriages and specially child marriages are VERY WRONG even if they are in same age range.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hey! Didn't mean to jump on you.

I really like reading your posts.

originally posted by: Unity_99

originally posted by: Lysergic
Pedos do what pedos do.

Really seems like a safe space for pedos.


How 2016.

This isn't something to make light of or be flippant about.

Damn right it isn't.

originally posted by: Staroth

Pakistan rejects bill to ban child marriage

That is creepy on so many levels!

Sadly it seems that the more important thing is to defend it by deflection, rather that face the frickin issue.

Well then. That didn't take long from changing the focus from one country, to "the west is worse".

originally posted by: TheTory
Well then. That didn't take long from changing the focus from one country, to "the west is worse".

The true sign of a weak argument surely must be: Well you do it too...but worse.

a reply to: TheTory

It is the virtual bleach

originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: Jonjonj

Yet i hope .. SOMEDAY
There is certainly a throwback what it used to be. Not so long ago there were a possiblility to actual human rights for women and children but sadly religion messed it up with powerplay. No child should be married without a their consent, going back for centuries that was used to power up family name and prestige. In Western world religion nowadays is personal matter and not forced upon us, so child marriages also have lost their importance but in developing countries we still see this.. its climbing the ladder to get "power" even a little bit more ..

No.
Don't obfuscate to "religions"
This is ISLAM

a reply to: Jonjonj

You people? Really? I've stated my point very clearly. If you can't read what I typed, whats the point in my replying? No, I'm not in favor of child abuse. And I specifically outlined how I feel about forced marriages, underage marriages, and child rape. So what are you confusing here?

Also, Muslims are incredibly diverse with a lot of different & sometimes conflicting interpretations. Just like with every other religion, there are differences in denominations and regional practices. I brought up the things going on in the West because of the blatant double standards & selective outrage. Even the Catholic Church & Judaism allow underage marriages depending on the conditions, and there's no way you can say they're Muslims.

a reply to: dollukka
No, I said much more than just "the West does the same". I outlined that child marriage is a global situation, hoping that if people were actually against it, they'd be against it everywhere. But that's clearly not the case with some of you, who only used this example to get your daily does of "Islam is blah".

Also, I specifically stated "teenagers" in my posts each time & specified that I only accept it when they're in the same age range. Maybe the problem here is the interpretation of "marriage", because in Islam, either partner can easily get a divorce. Islamic marriages aren't like biblical marriages that claim it has to be eternal. Ironically, Islamic marriages are closer to a "committed relationship" in America than to a Christian marriage. Of course we can stay married until death, but that's up for the married partners to decide. So yeah, I'd rather teenagers choose legally binding "committed relationships" than the crap I've seen with STDS, single parent households, deadbeat dads, etc.

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Hey! Didn't mean to jump on you.

I really like reading your posts.

No problem.
I didn't mean it in a bad way. I started to type more then realized I'd already said what I was going to type lol.

originally posted by: TheTory
Well then. That didn't take long from changing the focus from one country, to "the west is worse".

I was literally just pointing out that child marriage happens everywhere. Look back at the anti-Islam comments in this thread before my first post & you'll see why I responded like I did. I've already said flat out that I think it's disgusting unless they're the same age. It's just ridiculous to me that people will act outraged by something in another country but have no complaints about the same thing being legal in their own countries, states, or provinces. It reeks of hypocrisy.

Person 1: How can they so that?! Those savages!

Me: You do it too. Your religious denomination allows it & your own uncles did it. So what does that make you?

Person 1: Hmph!

There are charities on the tv all the time telling us about this practise.

However we could easily stop it by making it a condition of the aid we give these backward countries that this practise ceases or no aid. Get over it, your filthy old men should have some control and find women not kids to mate with.

Some of these little girls are forced into marriage at the age of 8 which anyone with a brain would know is utterly wrong.

Its a tough one though because if you read through Judaism its OK for a rabbi to take a 3year 1 day old bride. We nurture the idea that religion gives morality and respectability but the attitude towards sex and children is not as one would think and this is where the rot sets in. If two of the desert religions along with a number of other cultures, don't face this rot from within, their lobby alone condones this vile and disgusting practise and gets it through because of the religious taboo attitude fostered everywhere that we must respect religious practices even when a religion is only for a minority group.

a reply to: Jonjonj

Let me give you some stats that may shine a light on this problem. Danish psychologist, Nicolai Sennels, has done extensive research into ME marriage customs and found the following statistics apply to people married to their first cousin. Or, inbred:

70% of Pakistanis,
67%. of Saudi Arabians,
63:%. of Sudanese,
60%. Of iraqs.
54%. Of Muslims & United Arab Emirstes, Qatar
25-30% of those in Turkey
55% of Pakistanis in England... are INBRED

Mental, emotional, physical and cognitive abilities can, and many times are, affected by INBRED genetics. So, even in the face of what we know about genetics and the dire effects it can impose on the children produced by closely related parents, the practice lives on. The supposed reasoning behind it is similar to ancient Egyptian pharoahs...keep their "blood" pure. Another reason apparently is family economics: keeping wealth within the family.

it's yet another problem that not only needs to be addressed with these people, but aggressively put an end to! Is it not too surprising that the banning of child marriage was refused?

The article(S) I read also stated that their "prophet", the perfect person to model their life after, is who ordained this practice to begin with...that " Allah spoke" to him and thus brought this horrid tradition into being.

Sorry, but I just cannot wrap my teeny tiny brain around these teachings...let alone condone them. Nor can I back allowing the fanaticism of this "religion" (?) and those who would follow it to bring it into our nation. I know there are good people who deserve kindness and will appreciate our efforts. But those bent on destroying us from within? How do you identify them before hand? That's the zillion dollar question. And yes, I emphatically fear the world I can imagine my grandchildren could inherit.