When you say, "start at the bottom", what do you mean?

a reply to: infolurker

But your going to pay someone 100's of millions to facilitate a burger flip?

That makes even less sense.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: infolurker

But your going to pay someone 100's of millions to facilitate a burger flip?

That makes even less sense.

?

I have no idea what you are referencing.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: onequestion

On your question about a college degree.... yes.

If you are going into debt for a degree, that job better pay. (Doctor, Lawyer, Accountant, Nurse, Dentist, Dental Hygienist, Pharmacist, etc)

If you are getting a useless degree, you are a fool.

For a few thousand $ and a few months (not years) you can earn a CCNP certification and start making 50-60 K a year.

Be smart. Don't waste your time on crap.

It truly does sound as if you are obsessed with money. Do you really think that a degree only exists to make you superior in value to others? I'd be curious to hear what your degree is in. Certainly not in humanity, nor likely are you sworn to a Hippocratic Oath.

Tell me, are you an Accountant??

originally posted by: Krakatoa
Since I have not seen any response to my last post which enumerated one way to improve your position in life, I take it it was either too much work to read it, or too much work to do it. Either way, it speaks volumes about your attitude IMO.

This idea of work less earn more is the main reason businesses move offshore to cheaper manufacturing centers. Being in business means maximizing your workforce. You are either growing or or you are losing to the competition. There is no medium ground....that is where unicorns live.

No, the exponential growth in a finite system model created by fiat currency is the problem.

It is impossible to have exponentially growing profits in a finite system.

This is simple math.

There is 100 of X, you make 12 X, but think your growth can reach infinity....... Only human ignorance could even approach this level of idiocy!

a reply to: PhysicsAdept

Project Management / Operations Management

As stated before, you don't put yourself in 10's of thousands of debt for a useless degree. Why would you do that when you could not possibly pay back the student loans and still eat? How dumb is that?

No, you get a degree to get / qualify for a career that requires it. Simple math, if the cost of degree is more than the results of the degree then you are making an illogical decision.

a reply to: infolurker

My brother didn't have the mental capacity to graduate 8th grade. He worked in manual labor all his life. He's been touted as one of the hardest worker in every job he's had, but cannot read to this day. He now is a broken man, his body shattered. He was never able to move up, because he wasn't smart enough and couldn't read. He's now struggling to try and get on disability, is completely broke, and unable to work. He would walk hours to get to work when his car was broke, he would work as many hours as was demanded of him, no matter how it pushed his body.

But he was always stuck at the bottom no matter how hard and how much work he did. He always lived in poverty except those times he lived with family. He took pride in how hard a worker he was, and struggled to make a living despite his deficiencies.

According to you, he deserved to struggle like that all his life til he was broken and shattered because he wasn't born with the smarts to do more than be a grunt.

There are people at the bottom because they have no where else to go. And this bottom position needs to be filled. We should take care of every rung of our society, top to bottom.

The difference between you and me, is I care about people like my brother. I care about people who do the work at the bottom, whatever their reasons. I have no right to assume anything about them as people, I don't know them or their situation. Do you?

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: infolurker

What industry should the 4 billion practically homeless and starving people get into?

Just curious.

Isn't it obvious yet?

They just need an education, because there are 4 billion IT jobs waiting on them....

Because the world doesn't need waiters or garbage men or jiffy lube or Walmart or warehouse workers or janitors.

We can all be bankers or doctors or lawyers or IT professionals.....Duh, haven't you been listening?

a reply to: Puppylove

You are pointing out an exception. As you stated, his issue was not work ethic but basic education. He did not "choose" that like I am referencing with people who do not have any hindrances but choose to be low performers.

Remember, this thread started out on "why people should start their career at entry level" and has drifted to solving world hunger!

I am pointing out to the people reading this thread and making excuses on how "bad it is" on how they can succeed. My god, the resources of the internet, you guys have no idea what advantages you have today compared to only a few decades ago.

I don't know why you guys expect me to solve the problems of the world. I am simply showing YOU reading this thread that YOU can easily jump into a career, here in the US.

Not world hunger, not minimum wage, not disability, just simply stating that YOU (people reading the thread) can avoid the debt trap of useless degrees and pretty easily get a career that pays well and don't be WILLINGLY lazy and complain about how bad life is.

That is it.

a reply to: infolurker

Did you pay attention to only the thread title?

Actually that's not the exception do you just think everyone who isn't a project manager is stupid and lazy?

I think we're dealing the inability to look at the bigger picture.

a reply to: forkedtongue

Yeah we don't need grocery stores either!

Who cares about the supply chain which is maintained by people who do physical labor all day.

But those people are lazy and stupid and deserve their bull# wages. Losers.

a reply to: infolurker

There will always be more bottom positions than any other, more people will always be in the bottom position than anywhere else. Is ludicrous to demand that most of the world live in poverty for filling the position most in demand.

Even if everyone did what you all demand, they'd just raise the bar higher to get those positions or get ahead, because the facts are, there aren't infinite better paying positions. In the end they need people to work the bottom rung, and they need more people to do that than any other position.

The advantage of high skill positions is, many want them, so you can keep pulling from a better and better pool increasing requirements the more that pool grows, because most of those people trying to get it aren't needed. Only the bet of the best are. At the bottom though well anybody can work the bottom, so after promoting the golden children, anyone who didn't make the cut stays as low paid as you can keep them, overqualified or not.

Most of humanity will always be at the bottom. Is about time we rewrite what the bottom entails.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: forkedtongue

Stop complaining and go get a decent job. Here are a few thousand. Nobody is going to pay you $20 an hour to flip burgers or make pizzas.

The jobs are there. Are you WILLING to do what it takes to get into them?

jobs.monster.com...

www.dice.com...

Lol, I wasn't talking about me.... Heh.... I'm not the people I was talking about...... Neither is my evil banker GF.

Do you ever go outside of your life of obvious extreme privilege?

My grandfather built parts for NASA and never attended high school.

People are very capable of doing just about any task without wasting years and tens of thousands of dollars of BS college.

But today they don't even get the chance with it.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: forkedtongue

Yeah we don't need grocery stores either!

Who cares about the supply chain which is maintained by people who do physical labor all day.

But those people are lazy and stupid and deserve their bull# wages. Losers.

It just hurts.... We don't agree on much, except social politics.

We both fall on opposite ends of the spectrum in most things.

I have read many of your posts.

But on this subject, you clearly express my thinking.

Some can't see past their own personal greed.

While I clearly see the absolute necessity of even the lowest job, they are all important, because they all make the world work.

Great OP!

Perfect perspective IMHO!

That forgot puupylove as well!

We only need 100 million more like us to change things for the better!

Better for all, not just those that need it the least, unless you count condescending to them, some obviously need that.... Sad really

originally posted by: infolurker
Why, because I performed better than the pack.

i find this exceptionally hard to believe

I am going to tell you a story.
My story in regards to my career.

In my High school I was the best drummer and the best theater technician when I was 14 years old.
I continued my education with both into my 20s.
From paying, I became paid, in my mid teens.
In college I was given a 25 cent raise per semester (starting at minimum) for work with the theater department. And paid to handle outside events by myself.
I did not finish my degree, but had Professional theater companies recruiting me; so I left college.
Since then I have not had a job offer less than double minimum wage, and have managed over $20,000 annual independent contracts.

The idea that you cannot do it yourself, only limits the individual. We have access to the whole of humanity's knowledge. If you want it you can have it. But you have to work for it.

a reply to: randomtangentsrme

I'll tell you a story.

During my stint in college and at school, I got A's on pretty much ever test and paper I ever did. I did all my papers at the last minute and never studied for a test.

Meanwhile I watched others who kept seeing the teacher after class, and busting their ass looking miserable, because despite their hard work, they couldn't get above a C.

We're not all built equally. I'm also a natural born artist. Just because I can do something doesn't mean everyone can.

My issues in life is, I suffer from anxiety and depression. We are all different. That C student may be jealous of my natural intellect and my ex-fiance of my natural artistic skills, but I envy both of them for their ability to not crumble into sacks of useless misery at random moments or when juggling multiple stresses at once.

I'm not mentioning the anxiety and depression as an excuse simply an example of how we all have strengths and weaknesses. Like my brother the hard worker with limited mental faculties.

So sick of people saying, "I can do it so others can too." It's simply not true. Everyone is born different.

a reply to: Puppylove

another thing im sick of is people being exploitative pieces of so and so and contributing little to nothing to society (in many cases detracting from it) and claiming this "success" somehow makes them superior

no its not hard
and the reality is the vast majority are capable of the same behaviors that made you "successful" but find it morally reprehensible
if everyone chose to play by the same farked up rules they would find themselves in a much less "prestigious" position

most of them at some level know this
legitimate competition is their greatest fear

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: DBCowboy

What constitutes the bottom, however, can be redefined. It has for all of human existence. Last I checked most people aren't nomadic people sleeping in whatever cave they can find these days.

What constitutes as the bottom can and should improve as our ability to improve it increases.

To say we should never progress because someone else suffered to struggle to reach the same point in the past is an insult to ever human ever who worked to make this world a better place. It's an insult to every social progression ever made.

Following your kind of stagnation, slavery would be alive and well in the US today.

Things are allowed to get better, and what constitutes the starting point can be raised.

Nailed it.

Most people do not realize they are promoting suffering because they suffered. On the other hand; people who are not really suffering pretend they are suffering as a strategy to keep the masses at bay because the truth is employment has everything to do with one's social network as the OP claims. They can't reveal that, so suffering and red tape are invented.

So many cry about the elite doing this when it is just as prevalent in the middle and working class. Tears for all should be shed for treating fellow community members as outcasts with the continual shunning of employment to gain secure housing and have a solid footing on their livlihoods.

All jobs can be trained on the job with pay.

originally posted by: onequestion

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: onequestion

I did.

Your skill level/experience level dictates where you start.

If you have an "entry level" skill than you start at the bottom.

You mean like going from an entry level burger flipper all the way up to expert burger flipper

It's hilarious all the talk about entry level when you need 2 years of experience just to start an apprenticeship to become a plumber.

It is even worse if you are a female, even if you know what you are doing, and being taught as a young child. Even if you can do all your own plumbing work in your own home the still heavily discriminate against you for being a woman. I spent years trying to get into the plumbing business because it was something I grew up being taught how to do, and spent a good chunk of my time hanging out while my grandfather installed plumbing in new housing developments.

Right now I'd take a skilled trade over a college degree. College degrees are a dime a dozen, a good trade skill is worth the persons weight in gold. These Skilled Miners, Pilots, power lineman, oil slope ruffnecks, etc, are bringing in close to six digits starting off. They can get a degree on their days off if they want and many do online in their feild work for promotion purposes only. Many people get degrees and are in massive debt by the time they start looking for the job they will never get.