has any one heard of the catenians

yes pbrez, im a member but under the grand lodge of scotland

Originally posted by orangeman dave
yes pbrez, im a member but under the grand lodge of scotland

Since you are accusing me and my brothers of pleadging fake oaths against protetants you should be aware of this. In 1854 a mob of Orangemen and Knownothings destroyed St Marys church in Newark NJ and murdered an Irish Catholic. What kind of oaths are you taking sir. If you are not aware of what the Knownothings are they are the Know Nothing party. They where part of the nativism movment in the 1800's in America.

p brez talking of killing, your church have been the biggest contributors of killing for decades. They killed protestants and jews in spain(spanish inquisition) protestants in france(hugonauts) protestants in scotland(covenanters) these people where burned at the stake, had wedges driven into there legs and mutilated what kind of church would do this i ask!

i have provided facts in my last post, where are the facts of this killing you talk of what orangemen where convicted of this crime there names please?

Interesting post so far. I have a problem with Catholics. First of all, I am Catholic. I was an altar boy, Christian schooling, etc. What I have realized as I grew as a person and did more research, is the Catholic church has many problems. Catholicism is a created denomination of Christianity that has chosen their own rituals and beliefs many of which were done for control and power purposes only. I have many problems with the Catholic church, and one of the largest is that fact that they have tons and tons of books in their inaccessible library. This knowledge is withheld and not even shared with the highest among the ranks. If their is nothing to hide, why not share the information with everyone and allow them to make up their own minds about what they read?

One more thing. As far as the crusades go. That was a terrible thing and should never occur. Noone should be forced into a religion, but should be free to choose their own life path. Now that being said, what has happened in the past, by either the Catholics or the Protestants should be overcome by more learned and knowledgable people. Unless either of you feels it is justifiable to torture or kill people to force your religion upon them (which I don't think you would).

[edit on 1/15/2005 by infinite8]

well said infinite 8 now you will be called anti-catholic like me for not sharing there power hungry views. btw my dad was catholic he feels the same way they doctored the bible to suit themselves! and spoon fed people lies to keep the people from wandering.

Originally posted by infinite8
Interesting post so far. I have a problem with Catholics. First of all, I am Catholic.
Noone should be forced into a religion, but should be free to choose their own life path. Now that being said, what has happened in the past, by either the Catholics or the Protestants should be overcome by more learned and knowledgable people. Unless either of you feels it is justifiable to torture or kill people to force your religion upon them (which I don't think you would).

[edit on 1/15/2005 by infinite8]

Originally posted by orangeman dave
now you will be called anti-catholic like me for not sharing there power hungry views

Actually no, he stated he is Catholic just doesn't agree in many of the things it does such as the withholding of knowlegde that is contained in the Vatican Library, and for creating ritual and beliefs for more power. This much many would agree. However your posts give the impression that the RCC is an evil entity that has an army bent on destroying all who see things differently, including Knights of Columbus and the Jeusits, that the "Black Pope" is the true authority in Rome and head of the Jesuit Order, (from a different post)etc. Even if parts of this had truth in it, you sound as if the ATS community should fear the Vatican ie the RCC as a whole. This is why you get labeled by some as anti-catholic.

[edit on 1/15/2005 by cotwom]

Originally posted by orangeman dave
i have provided facts in my last post, where are the facts of this killing you talk of what orangemen where convicted of this crime there names please?

www.sundayherald.com...

www.newadvent.org... (american version of the orangemen in the 1800's)

so pbrez it wasnt the orange order, in your links there have been no orangemen charged with any of these offences, also your other link is from a priest that has campaigned to have the world oldest orange parade stopped. I ask again show me the facts that the orangemen have killed and you come up with a totally seperate group!

The marches are great aren't they?

news.bbc.co.uk...

"The leadership of the Orange Order has until recently presented a united front in resisting demands for parades to be rerouted, although there have been occasional compromises. But the stand-off at Drumcree, and the violence which has followed has sorely tested that unity.
The scenes this year, with a gunman running in among the ranks of Orange protestors opening fire at the police, and the sectarian murder of three children at Ballymoney, have caused influential voices to reconsider whether a point of principle has been taken too far."

www.bbc.co.uk...



The "innocence" of the Orange Order.

news.bbc.co.uk...

icnorthernireland.icnetwork.co.uk...=14088164&method=full&siteid=91603&headline=killer-won-t-be-allowed-back-in--says- orange-order-name_page.html

www.globalsecurity.org...


"On July 12, 1996, Robert Saulters --- who was later elected Grand Master of the Orange Order on December 11, 1996 in place of the Reverend Martin Smyth who retired after 24 years --- told the Orange Order, that British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, " has already sold his birthright by marrying a Romanist. He would sell his soul to the devil himself. He is not loyal to his religion. He is a turncoat " ("Romanist" is Orange-speak for a Catholic. Mrs. Blair is a Catholic)."

archives.tcm.ie...

"Harold Gracey, a leading Orange Order figure in Portadown, described why he was refusing to condemn the violence that has swept this area some 30 miles southwest of Belfast. "I'm not going to condemn violence, because (Sinn Fein leader) Gerry Adams never condemns it, does he?"


And some background on this bastardised version of Freemasonry.

www.nireland.com...

Of course, the above link could be biased or erroneous, but what the heck, who worries about posting false links around here?

right leveller this thread was for the catenians if you want to post about the orange and discredit start your own thread. I will start posting the workings of the degrees of the masons. the ones i took and am now ashamed i did when we have fellow brothers like you not fit for the name man or mason.

Originally posted by orangeman dave
right leveller this thread was for the catenians if you want to post about the orange and discredit start your own thread. I will start posting the workings of the degrees of the masons. the ones i took and am now ashamed i did when we have fellow brothers like you not fit for the name man or mason.

Dave,

Personally I can't see that a disagreement you have with Leveller is grounds for you breaking an obligation you took of your own free will and accord.

...but do as you wish...

Originally posted by infinite8
One more thing. As far as the crusades go. That was a terrible thing and should never occur. Noone should be forced into a religion, but should be free to choose their own life path.
[edit on 1/15/2005 by infinite8]

This is like saying the muslim invasions should have never taken place. Because when they invaded the muslims believed in conquer and convert. Read the history of the crusades. You are right there are some bad things that happened but there are some good things too.

Originally posted by orangeman dave
right leveller this thread was for the catenians if you want to post about the orange and discredit start your own thread. I will start posting the workings of the degrees of the masons. the ones i took and am now ashamed i did when we have fellow brothers like you not fit for the name man or mason.

Get off your high horse David. As you've already stated with one of your first posts, you don't believe in Brotherly Love anyway, so I'm hardly going to care about any "shame" of yours am I?
As for posting workings? Well you've tried to post workings of the K of C, albeit false ones so you do have the ignomy of being the first in this case also. So touche.
You also seem to forget that the rituals of Freemasonry can be found all over the internet, so your threats are nothing but empty air. Anyone with a basic knowledge of Google can go look for themselves. I do find it suprising that any Freemason would threaten to post ritual as a defence or attack, though.

As for this thread being about the Catenians. Sure it is. But at the end of the day, the reader should know where you are coming from, just as he should know where you get your information from.

Not one of the links that I have posted comes from an uncredited source. If you're upset with my exposure of the Orange Order as a sectarian group -look back. You were the one goading people into discrediting it. I've merely posted links to reliable sources to accomodate your earlier request. You can't expect to attack others and then whine when others attack your stance and expose you. You must have heard the old moral tale about people in glass houses....?

Reap what you sew, David.






[edit on 16-1-2005 by Leveller]

I am a Catenian of 7 years standing. We meet once a month in a local golf club. Here is what we 'secretly' get up to

Have a beer at the bar and meet other members or any guests
Start the meeting with prayers and at the appropriate time shake hands with the person either side as a handshake of peace. No funny grips allowed!!

We do close the door before the meeting starts (re closed door reference )but only to discourage golfers from wandering through our meeting!!!

we pray for our sick members and members of our families.

we pray for deceased members

we listen to reports covering, Finance,membership drives, welfare ...our sick members and widows of our past members are visited or contacted each month, Social...we arrange trips to places of interest or organise social events eg British Library, The Somme Battle fields, quizzes trips to the theatre etc etc

We then go back to the bar for another drink and have a very social dinner with light hearted speeches afterwards

We contribute to a fund that young people can apply to who want go overseas to help eg 3rd world countries

We are non political and do not allow discussion on political matters at our meetings. We do pray for the Pope but we also toast the Queen.

In essence it is a social organisation for catholic business men

Peace be with you Dave and could I be so bold as to say if we look for the good in people rather than expect the worse the world might be a happier place.

I am quite happy to answer any qusestions about our Organisation

reply to post by wiggy


Many believe that passage in Matthew is Jesus entrusting His church to Peter and that is not what He was saying at all. The word Cephas (peter) means a little rock but the word for rock (petras) means a large rocky crag. Two different words. Jesus was saying that on the revelation of who He was, He would build His church. Not on Peter. The Catholic Church we know today is completely different from the church that Peter began. They don't even resemble one another.

Oh and to be a Christian is to be a little Jesus. A little Christ. That is what the society of the day mean when they called the members of "The Way" Christians for the first time. It was a derogatory term that meant they looked like Jesus and did the same things as Jesus. The were "little Christs". So to be a Christian means we walk by the Spirit and not the flesh. Just being a "good" person is still an affront to the cross of Christ. If you remember in Genesis, the Lord put two trees in the garden. The tree of Life, which is representative of Jesus, and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, which is representative of the lineage of the serpent. That tree is based as much in "good" as "evil". The purpose of the cross is to lay the axe to the root of that tree so we can partake of the tree of Life. To be a true Christian means you must completely die to the old way and be resurrected, in the Spirit, as a new creation. It is a relationship with Jesus. Not a prayer or code of good works. It is utter death to the tree of knowledge and partaking daily of the tree of Life, who is Jesus.

reply to post by orangeman dave


Seriously dude... is there a reason your signature has to be all caps? Quite frankly it makes you look like a 4 year old looking for attention.

reply to post by Resinveins


Better late than never. Try looking at;

www.thecatenianassociation.org...

No secrets, no funny handshakes.

Pbrez orangeman dave

Your both missing a few key points I think.

For example if you are a mason or belong to any secret fraternal organization
you are not a catholic. You have been excommunicated.

Click it for yourself

Now I know the KoC skirt the rules the rules of the cannon law.... But between you me and the pope I still think they are secretive and fraternal. Kinda like pot , I think of the KoC as a gateway fraternal organization.


Now Pbrez you said something just awful to my heart. You said the knownothing party did something..... You should brush up on your fraternal history aswell as your canon law... They were called the ANTI-MASONIC PARTY And they were growing in strength and numbers. Their common goal was the expulsion FRATERNAL BROTHERHOODS FROM US POLITICS.
Then your kind, fraternals infiltrated the Anti-masonic party and destroyed it from the inside out....Then name change was initiated by FRATERNALS.

You see your kind cause problems. You bunch up into elitist groups and promote from with in. You scheme and plot to empower one another at the expense of those not of the fold. One need look no further than the 2004 elections where two fraternal brothers ran against one another for president. That is a direct conflict of interest. Regardless of who won the goals of the brotherhood were advanced. And it was stuff like that the ANTI-MASONIC PARTY OPPOSED.

Sorry about getting so far off topic... I just thought, that as a cowan, you should at least know as much as I do if your gonna argue about politics, the catholic church , and fraternal brotherhoods.

ok back on topic.

Heres a Catenian link