Life after death ( alternative perspective )

For me personally there is no question that there is, in fact I believe that you as a consciousness or a soul never cease to exist, can`t explain how or why but deep down myself I just feel this to be true which brings the question am I right? I`m well aware that I could be wrong because there is no scientific evidence to prove that there is life after death. So why do I have such strong feeling about it? Lately it motivated me to do some digging on the subject and this is what I found.

Facts:

1. Neurological process

This is a crucial part that just encouraged my belief that we may be in fact always alive. What you will about to see in 1.1 is that there is unusual surge of high-frequency brain activity shortly after a clinical death which lasts for about 20 seconds which means very little from our perspective or does it really? After death we go into a higher state of consciousness which could possibly mean that we experience this short period of time as a whole another lifetime. As explained in the part 1.2 from the day we are born (again?) we have no sense of time and are only getting adjusted to it as our awareness grows so could it be that we only then become tuned into our new surroundings where life passes at the slower but normal pace from our perspective? As said in the article we are only truly made aware of it from paying attention to it and having experiencing it.

1.1 EEG - rats experiment

Can neuroscience shed light on one of life's biggest mysteries - death? In a new study just published in PNAS, researchers observed a surge of brain activity just moments before death. This raises the fascinating possibility that they have identified the neural basis for near death experiences.

First, to put this research into context, death-related brain activity was examined in rats, not humans. For obvious reasons, it is easier to study the death process in animals rather than humans. In this study, nine rats were implanted with electrodes in various brain regions, anaesthetised then 'euthanized' (i.e., killed). The exact moment of death was identified as the last regular heartbeat (clinical death). Electroencephalogram (EEG) was recorded during normal waking phase, anaesthesia and after cardiac arrest (i.e., after death) from right and left frontal (RF/LF), parietal (RP/LP) and occipital (RO/LO) cortex. The raw EEG (i.e., ‘brain waves') for each area is shown in the Figure below.

On top (Panel A), the recording ranges from about 1hr before death to 30mins afterwards. At this coarse time scale you can basically see a sudden decrease in brain activity after cardiac arrest - everything seems to flatline at the moment of death. However, if we now zoom in on the moment just after death (Panels B and C below), we can see that the death process actually involves a sequence of structured stages, including a surge of high-frequency brain activity that is normally associated with wakefulness and conscious awareness.
In this study, the neuroscientists distinguish four distinct stages of brain death. Cardiac arrest stage 1 (CAS1) reflects the time (~4 seconds) between the last regular heartbeat and the loss of a oxygenated blood pulse (i.e. clinical death). The next stage (CAS2) lasts about 6 seconds, and ends with a burst in low-frequency brain waves (so-called 'delta blip'). The third death stage, CAS3, lasts approximately 20 seconds at which point there is no more evidence of meaningful brain activity at the final stage, CAS4.

These stages seem to reflect an organized series of distinct brain states, rather than a gradual fade out of brain activity. First, we see a sudden transition from the anaesthetised state with an increase in fast brain waves. It is as if the brain is suddenly shaken from the effects of anaesthesia at the moment of death. Next, brain activity settles into a period of slower brain waves during CAS2. Perhaps most surprisingly, recordings are then dominated in CAS3 by brain waves more commonly associated with normal wakefulness during life (so-called gamma activity). In further analyses, the researchers also show that this ‘afterlife' brain activity is also highly coordinated across brain areas and different wavelengths. These are the neural hallmarks of high-level cognitive activity. In sum, these data suggests that long after clinical death, the brain enters a brief state of heightened activity that is normally associated with wakeful consciousness.

Interestingly, the authors even suggest that the level of activity observed during the final active death stage (CAS3) not only resembles the waking state, but might even reflect a heightened state of conscious awareness similar to the "highly lucid and realer-than-real mental experiences reported by near-death survivors". This is a pretty bold claim that critically depends on their quantification of 'consciousness'. They argue that in the final stage of brain death there is actually more evidence for consciousness-related activity than during normal wakeful consciousness.

Source

1.2 Perception of time

"From infancy onwards babies must come to grips with a world marked by recurrent time patterns, learning the length of time, or duration, associated with the various actions they experience every day," says Professor Sylvie Droit-Volet, at the Social and Cognitive Psychology Laboratory (Lapsco) at Blaise Pascal University, Clermont Ferrand, France. "They react, become agitated or cry, when something they expect does not occur on time: when the mobile over their bed stops turning earlier than usual, when their mother takes too long preparing a feed," she adds.

Very young children "live in time" before gaining an awareness of its passing. They are only able to estimate time correctly if they are made to pay attention to it, experiencing time in terms of how long it takes to do something. "For a three-year-old, time is multifaceted, specifically related to each action," Droit-Volet explains. At the age of five or six a child is able to transpose the duration it has learned to associate with a particular action (pressing a rubber ball) to another (pulling on a lever). "They begin to realise that a single time continuum exists separately from individual actions," she adds.

The awareness of time improves during childhood as children's attention and short-term memory capacities develop, a process dependent on the slow maturation of the prefrontal cortex. To gauge the time required for a task they must pay attention to it. But they must also memorise a stream of time-data without losing concentration.

Source

2. Biological process

New study shows that D MT is already present in the pineal gland of rats so linking it to direct speculation that this may be in fact a part of the same process described above but from biological perspective where this chemical is the reason behind a surge of heightened brain activity after clinical death. For those who are unfamiliar with Dimethyltryptamine as the most hallucinogenic drug, read here

2.1 Dimethyltryptamine -> D MT

Published in Science in 1961, Julius Axelrod found an N-methyltransferase enzyme capable of mediating biotransformation of tryptamine into D MT in a rabbit's lung.[17] This finding initiated a still ongoing scientific interest in endogenous D MT production in humans and other mammals.[18][24] From then on, two major complementary lines of evidence have been investigated: localization and further characterization of the N-methyltransferase enzyme, and analytical studies looking for endogenously produced D MT in body fluids and tissues.[18]

In 2013 researchers first reported D MT in the pineal gland microdialysate of rodents.[25] In the popular drug culture, this has been expanded to an assertion that it occurs in the human pineal gland, and is released at or shortly before death, but this conjecture has not yet been scientifically verified.

A study published in 2014 reported the biosynthesis of N,N-dimethyltryptamine (D MT) in the human melanoma cell line SK-Mel-147 including details on its metabolism by peroxidases.[26]

In a 2014 paper a group first demonstrated the immunomodulatory potential of D MT and 5-MeO-D MT through the Sigma-1 receptor of human immune cells. This immunomodulatory activity may contribute to significant anti-inflammatory effects and tissue regeneration

Source

We’re excited to announce the acceptance for publication of a paper documenting the presence of D MT in the pineal glands of live rodents. The paper will appear in the journal Biomedical Chromatography and describes experiments that took place in Dr. Jimo Borjigin’s laboratory at the University of Michigan, where samples were collected. These samples were analyzed in Dr. Steven Barker’s laboratory at Louisiana State University, using methods that funding from the Cottonwood Research Foundation helped develop.

The pineal gland has been an object of great interest regarding consciousness for thousands of years, and a pineal source of D MT would help support a role for this enigmatic gland in unusual states of consciousness. Research at the University of Wisconsin has recently demonstrated the presence of the D MT-synthesizing enzyme as well as activity of the gene responsible for the enzyme in pineal (and retina). Our new data now establish that the enzyme actively produces D MT in the pineal.

The next step is to determine the presence of D MT in cerebrospinal fluid (CSF), the fluid that bathes the brain and pineal. CSF is a possible route for pineal-synthesized D MT to effect changes in brain function. Successfully establishing D MT’s presence in this gland adds another link in the chain between the pineal and consciousness and opens new avenues for research.

Source

Conclusion:

Nothing has been proven yet but all indications point to that there may actually be something after death. So is there a possibility that we are in fact always alive, yet died many times already? As you can see, there is a 20 second period in which, after clinical death, record shows an unusual surge of high-frequency brain activity in mammals which could very well be the result of forced D MT activation in the pineal gland and while this period is nothing from our scientific perspective our consciousness in a heightened state as result could create and project a whole new lifetime into our mind, perhaps even a new world, where we begin all over again and have to adjust to the new perception of time. You see...if this process has repeated many times before, then each lifetime is actually shorter for an outside observer but for us it`s a matter of perception, thus always similar in terms of experience.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

And you call this digging?

Nothing has been proven yet but all indications point to that there may actually be something after death.

Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop eating popcorn.

As someone who likes consciousness and being around, I can only certainly hope you, me, and certain billions of current and previous souls are correct.

But assuming a "forever" consciousness is a true notion, then there's the hope that the majority of being conscious is tolerable, interesting and pleasant... or at least interesting as my own low points have been in this life. The notion of "hell" comes to mind.. .for a moment, anyway... we can surely create some bad ones.

Also, it strikes me that we might be stuck in a convulsing torus of consciousness eternally starting and ending as "god" and we are all bits of the great whole, and wondering if we are alone... which is stark, but at least the illusion of company is pretty convincing...down here, anyway.

So, nice thread... been feeling pretty mortal lately.

originally posted by: randyvs
Looks like I picked the wrong week to stop eating popcorn.

You can have some of mine.

Life after death is really life after life.

a reply to: randyvs

Well I have found what there is to find, the reason why this is in the gray area...

Would your popcorn taste better if I spread lies instead?

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Maybe it's, life after life after life after life after life oh..etc?

Or maybe it's, after life after life after life after life etc.?

Or maybe someday we'll all be brilliant enough to just accept
the authoritative?

If we ever get passed this never absolutely knowing anything.

Our biggest problem is we can dismiss any and all forms of
evidence if we don't like where it leads us.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

Oh hell, my bad compadre! I forgot to say excellent thread and

SnF

No please don't ever lie about anything on these boards. Even if I tell you to.

a reply to: Baddogma

Well I have also found numerous accounts where people reported both "heavenly" and "hellish" near death or death experiences but for obvious reasons I decided not to provide these claims as facts

a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Yes you could call it that way

It may not be possible to scientifically prove life after death by examining the physical body at the time of death. We can infer that something may exist from evidence that suggests the possibility but that in itself is not scientific proof. If you want to prove to yourself that your 'I' can remain active when your body and mind are asleep then you could try deep meditation,

As I have said in similar threads...We are far more than just our physical bodies. I only had one out of body experience in my whole life, but that was one thing that made me realize that we are so much more.

There are people who have had out of body experiences, pre-birth memories, life after death experiences etc. Though I don't believe every single thing I read or hear about, there is some very compelling evidence out there.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

There's another thread going just recently, same topic.
As I mentioned there also, at seventeen I myself briefly
skimmed the surface of this experience. I was at the top
of the office room looking down on myself and the rest of
my crew. So I'm posting as a dead set believer mon.

whats the alternative perspective? alot of people believe in the afterlife and reincarnation.

a reply to: randyvs

No worries...as said I feel strongly about the idea of life keep going on. I also think it can be proven as the science progresses. We may not be far away. It will certainly be interesting to see what comes out

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

read conclusion about the time frame where I speculate that our lives are in reality getting shorter each time

nope i,m sorry i don,t buy it,i did at one point think theres no way we exist just to not but in recent years i,m going for when your lights go out then your lights go out for good.

there is no proof other wise,until i see some proof then i,m going with what started to sway me,your brain switches off at night and you have no memory of a dream then what memory do you actually have when you wake up?

i know people will say but your brain wasn,t dead but if you have no concept when you were sleeping then why should you have any when your brains actually dead? just not convinced there is a soul that continues your journey,there is totally no evidnce of it.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d What you have found is really interesting and I tried to follow the link to '___', but it wouldn't go anywhere. I'm curious, is '___' a drug derived from a plant source and used by certain cultures in Shamanic rituals?
Surely if rats have it in pineal gland at death, more evolved animals and humans would too, inmo. I'm wondering about '___' and its ritual use by Shamans, because they tend to enter into the spiritual realm. So, if one can enter into the spiritual realm through Shamanic practice, that makes sense, that we enter the spirit realm at death.
This is fascinating research you have uncovered. Thank you.

Well, I dont see the point in studying the body once its dies except for perhaps looking for minor weight changes and the like.

The question is can consciousness survive without a body here, and brainwaves after a persons heart stops isn't helpful in that question.
And because the question requires scientific instruments we have yet to develop, then it remains a unknown. Brainwaves after cardiac arrest would actually lend evidence to the idea that the near death experience is in peoples heads alone.

I would say personally that ends the discussion...if not for ghost stories of course bringing the question right back. This however is far more difficult to find solid evidence for..enough to qualify a case for "proof" of "soul" existence. I would say keep a very open mind here. It may sound absurd, the notion of continued existance after life,however, there are plenty of non magical or religious (difference?) reasons this may be true, but the why can come after we establish a positive on if its happening to begin with.

originally posted by: sparky31
nope i,m sorry i don,t buy it,i did at one point think theres njust not convinced there is a soul that continues your journey,there is totally no evidnce of it.

Actually there is tons of evidence..mountains of testimony, ghost stories going back to earliest recorded history, etc.
just no smoking gun that proves it all beyond a reasonable doubt..

So, we continue collecting evidence. falsifying what we can, and whats left gets put in the big basket of "hmm".

nah.
dont believe it

if there is life after death or if we have died many times then what is the point of death?

why do we have to die then? cant that part just be skipped.

either way though if i die today and come back tomorrow as someone else and i dont remember my previous life then for all purposes it didnt happen.