10 days into new year, more than 100 people shot in Chicago

originally posted by: Shamrock6
And in less than a page, ats has summed up the entire gun debate.

Event happens.

Both sides immediately resort to petty "witticisms" and hyperbole and nothing gets done.

No, one side is doing that and the other is being rational. That being the side that recognizes being able to defend yourself is a right all human beings have.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: jhn7537

More guns!

That'll solve the issue... or so a lot of US citizens on ATS try to tell me.

Your plan of disarming the law abiding will work out great I'm sure.

Yes, the answer is to arm and train good, everyday people. Everyone has the right to defend their lives.

But again, why isn't gun violence as high in New York?

Doesn't New York have some zero tolerance policy? I remember a prominent NFL player for the New York Giants shot himself in the crotch while in a NY nightclub. that guy served a few years in jail, and he was a celebrity/athlete...

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

so what is your thoughts to stop gang violence?

How many of them are from gang violence? Do we have a breakdown on that number? Because I'd also ask how do we stop murder-suicides, suicides, males killing their female significant others, police shootings, and more? I'd guess the number from the OP is a combination of factors, not just gang violence.

originally posted by: jhn7537

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: TheBulk

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: jhn7537

More guns!

That'll solve the issue... or so a lot of US citizens on ATS try to tell me.

Your plan of disarming the law abiding will work out great I'm sure.

Yes, the answer is to arm and train good, everyday people. Everyone has the right to defend their lives.

But again, why isn't gun violence as high in New York?

Doesn't New York have some zero tolerance policy? I remember a prominent NFL player for the New York Giants shot himself in the crotch while in a NY nightclub. that guy served a few years in jail, and he was a celebrity/athlete...

Yeah I think so, but I'm so sure that putting a zero tolerance policy in Chicago is what we need. Maybe.

a reply to: amazing

I don't think I'd use New York as a paragon of gun control gone right. Their numbers aren't exactly stellar.

Just a portion of this avalanche of annual spending on war might have created countless new opportunities in America with new and better schools, better medical facilities, improved housing, and intervention into troubled families.
No....instead, everything is just allowed to rip, and on the streets of Chicago and other cities, week-in and week-out, the toll resembles minor battle scenes with as many as twenty-five shot (not all killed) on a single week-end.

a reply to: enlightenedservant
You might be able to parse some of that from here:
data.cityofchicago.org...

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

so what is your thoughts to stop gang violence?

How many of them are from gang violence? Do we have a breakdown on that number? Because I'd also ask how do we stop murder-suicides, suicides, males killing their female significant others, police shootings, and more? I'd guess the number from the OP is a combination of factors, not just gang violence.

The heavy heavy majority comes from gang violence from the South and west sides of the city...

Or maybe no one really cares!! NY has a party reputation , Chicago has a crime reputation.



a reply to: amazing

Why don't we put a "Shoot to kill" order out on anyone who commits a crime with a gun?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: enlightenedservant
You might be able to parse some of that from here:
data.cityofchicago.org...

Whoa. I had no idea they had a site about that. I'm not trolling either. It's a little hypnotic, reading all of those.

originally posted by: jhn7537

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

so what is your thoughts to stop gang violence?

How many of them are from gang violence? Do we have a breakdown on that number? Because I'd also ask how do we stop murder-suicides, suicides, males killing their female significant others, police shootings, and more? I'd guess the number from the OP is a combination of factors, not just gang violence.

The heavy heavy majority comes from gang violence from the South and west sides of the city...

In other words, let's not look for actual data? I found 2 maps that show the shootings for the last 30 days (here) as well as the homicides for the last year (here).

The incredible thing is the first one links each victim to an article about that specific shooting (many times, several victims link to the same article). And the link for homicides lists each name and a link to articles from each one. Unfortunately, I'm trying to find a quicker set of base stats; as in, I'm not reading all of those articles just to see how many were from what causes. Maybe there's a function on those pages (or elsewhere) that allows us to filter the info?

I just don't think it's a good idea to characterize them all as gang violence unless we have the data to back that up. People shoot & kill each other over money, cheating in relationships, robbery attempts, and many other reasons that have nothing to do with gang violence.

I think self defense should be a separate statistic. Criminals shot while committing a crime should not be in the same category as the victims of crime. One is a shame, the other is a success story.

I don't think anyone will ever know the real number of shootings that are gang related. By that I mean crimes of gang against gang violence as well as other crimes involving guns committed by gang members such as robbery. If you spend any significant amount of time in this area you know that gangs are a serious problem. Isolated individual acts of violence certainly do happen. I would never suggest otherwise. But I am a firm believer that by far the majority are gang related. If for no other reason than if you have a gun in the city and are out on the streets using it, it wont take long for you to get a meet and greet from the local gangs. Either you join or die. Pretty simple. You are committing crimes on their turf. You should consider yourself lucky if they even wait long enough to consider you as a member before killing you.

If you could flip a switch and make gangs disappear over night, the silence would be deafening.

originally posted by: jhn7537

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

so what is your thoughts to stop gang violence?

How many of them are from gang violence? Do we have a breakdown on that number? Because I'd also ask how do we stop murder-suicides, suicides, males killing their female significant others, police shootings, and more? I'd guess the number from the OP is a combination of factors, not just gang violence.

The heavy heavy majority comes from gang violence from the South and west sides of the city...

gangs are a necessary…part of the drug business…and the drug business…must never be interrupted…because it makes a lot of money…for a lot of people…important people…
Accumulating money takes precedence over the downside of killing and maiming people

originally posted by: Shamrock6
a reply to: amazing

I don't think I'd use New York as a paragon of gun control gone right. Their numbers aren't exactly stellar.

Except, I think in total shootings Chicago was more than New York and LA combined.

It's way worse in Chicago. I think most crime numbers are a lot higher in Chicago than New York.

I'm still telling you that's the key. What's the difference? I'm a big believer in the right to own a gun, but this gun violence that we see in the inner cities has other root causes and will have other root solutions.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: jhn7537

More guns!

That'll solve the issue... or so a lot of US citizens on ATS try to tell me.

Chicago is a "gun free zone"....criminals don't follow the law, you probably did not know that....

a reply to: enlightenedservant

im willing to go out on a limb and say most are gang related, besides the question was rhetorical, we all know there is no stop to gang violence.

Cities = ok
car = ok

Cities + cars = bad



That's my thesis. The following is the evidence.




[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c4630914564e.png[/atsimg]
Murders in Chicago
The blue dots represent the site of multiple homicides.



[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f82af77568fb.png[/atsimg]
The correlation between CO2 and the murder rate is not discussed much,
but anyone who has seen the freak out scene in Apoll 13 knows what this is about.



Freak out scene



Explanation scene.
Here is the relevant part.

You get impaired judgement, blackouts, the beginings of brain asphyxia

New York City murders.







New York City CO2 emissions.





Either the cars should get out of the cities,
or the people should.


Mike Grouchy

a reply to: jhn7537

It may be increasing because of the BLM movement. I think a lot of police are not getting involved because they're worried about being called out by the black community for focusing on young black men involved in street crime. I think the BLM movement has actually caused an increase in shootings and has affected other cities besides Chicago.

I notice one of the things mentioned is a store clerk who apparently shot two robbers.

Why is that a gun crime -- if he'd had a knife, wouldn't he have knifed them? Isn't the real issue that they were robbing the store?!

Frankly I don't see that as gun crime I see that as "Hey look, that's an example of something guns work really well for."

originally posted by: enlightenedservant

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

so what is your thoughts to stop gang violence?

How many of them are from gang violence? Do we have a breakdown on that number? Because I'd also ask how do we stop murder-suicides, suicides, males killing their female significant others, police shootings, and more? I'd guess the number from the OP is a combination of factors, not just gang violence.

Vast majority is gang related both directly and indirectly. Here is a report from 2011 by the Chicago Police Department breaking down the causes. I don't have time to point to the exact page, but the report is very easy to read. It shows a large percentage are directly related to gang violence. The CPD used to do this report every year as you can find years prior to 2011, but for some reason stopped publishing it. My guess is it wasn't helping politically to have the data publicly available.

The other stat that stands out to me is 76% of the victims had prior arrest records. In other words, one thug shooting another thug. While I would not wish death on anyone, the reality is that most of these victims were not honor roll students.

2011 Chicago PD Homicide Stats

The site HeyJackass.com keeps running totals of Chicago homicides. It is probably the most accurate source.

HeyJackass

Almost all the violence is on the south and west sides of the city. Essentially poor black ghettos and to a lesser extent hispanic. The violence really isn't in Chicago proper and almost entirely a black issue. This is what irks me most about the gun violence debate. The left wants to ignore the reality of the situation and not discuss root causes nor who the violecne is affecting.

This isn't a gun control problem, it is a feral young black male problem.