What Happens When Pregnant Women Are Criminalized For Drug Use

a reply to: RedCairo

Your reasoning is flawed. When we see babies destroyed due to things like meth or heroin usage by the mother during pregnancy, it results from a LOT of usage, not just a small bit. A small bit would have similar effects as you just mentioned about small amounts of alcohol, cigarettes, or weed while pregnant.

Just a heads up, if alcohol were illegal and federally scheduled, it would be listed as a "hard" drug or a schedule 1 drug. Tobacco would be the same as well.

this might be of interest to some:

Legal Drug-Testing Policies

Based on the Supreme Court's decision in Ferguson and recommendations from leading medical organizations, hospitals are now able to craft drug testing and treatment policies that are both constitutional and ethically sound. First, medical professionals should know that, if they perform testing for the specific purpose of gathering evidence of criminal conduct by patients, they have an obligation to inform the patients of their constitutional rights to protection from unreasonable search and seizure [1]. Hospitals that fail to inform patients of their rights may be open to civil liability for monetary damages. Second, testing policies that are developed with law enforcement agencies, employing their protocols, are more likely to be deemed unrelated to treatment and thus be perceived as being used only to further prosecution. To avoid such categorization, hospitals should develop testing procedures based on medical care and treatment options, independent of police or prosecutors. Third, as Lisa Harris and Lynn Paltrow note, "no state authorizes or expects physicians to use medical evidence of addiction for criminal prosecution" [1].

The Supreme Court recognizes that a physician's duty is to provide sound medical treatment to his patient, not to act as an extension of law enforcement. Physicians serve medical—not legal—roles in the treatment of pregnant women. Health care professionals who act on behalf of the state rather than for their patients breach the ethical duties of the patient-physician relationship. Such a breach erodes confidence and trust in the medical community, resulting in poor disclosure by patients, which, in turn, may dramatically reduce the efficacy of diagnosis and treatment. Physicians' duty of care lies first and foremost with the patient. Ultimately, to preserve constitutional rights and the ethical patient-doctor relationship, drug testing policies should encourage open communication between patient and physician, emphasize the availability of treatment options, and advocate for the health of woman and child.

journalofethics.ama-assn.org...

it seems that the supreme court has already said that law enforcement really can't use the medical profession as tools to collect evidence (drug tests) like they are.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: RedCairo
Your reasoning is flawed. When we see babies destroyed due to things like meth or heroin usage by the mother during pregnancy, it results from a LOT of usage, not just a small bit. A small bit would have similar effects as you just mentioned about small amounts of alcohol, cigarettes, or weed while pregnant.
Just a heads up, if alcohol were illegal and federally scheduled, it would be listed as a "hard" drug or a schedule 1 drug. Tobacco would be the same as well.

Perhaps you are correct. I have never known anyone to only use 'a little' meth or heroin, I guess is the thing.

a reply to: RedCairo

The reason you only hear about the worst cases is that is all they talk about. It's so they can drive the point home that heroin and meth are awful awful drugs. So if they told you about how there are plenty of functioning Americans who take either meth or heroin it would destroy that image. Also, keep in mind that both of those drugs are snubbed by polite society, so functioning users use in privacy and only talk to other users about it, because they are ashamed or they worry that they'll get in turned in by someone who disapproves or both. So your co-worker at work could very well be shooting up dope after he gets off work and you'd never know it.

Now don't get me wrong here, I understand why they present the image of it ALWAYS destroying lives. Both of those drugs really do screw people with addiction, but you also have to keep in mind that the world is a big place. People are capable of more than just what they tell you.

Um. Well. I appreciate you think that I must just be influenced by... I dunno, media or government or something.

I live in nowhere, Oklahoma, where things like heroin and meth are probably the largest unofficial occupation in the county. I grew up in a California beach city where the former was very popular. I tend to think these destroy lives because I see them, all my life, destroying lives. (Not counting destroying much of my family, and heroin killing my brother, and meth just eating the brain and personality of a ton of people I know.) Yes some people are still alive are doing meth... they're different people, literally, and not ones I want to associate with.

I don't have any happy-ending stories of people do heroin and meth and yet are non-addicted and perfectly functional human beings otherwise, because I've been around these drugs (and coc aine, which if kept off freebase is not quite as bad but still horrible, it's just relative) all my life and this is what I have seen. I have known people who THOUGHT they were functional while doing hard drugs in smaller amounts -- they were deluding themselves and it eventually became obvious.

RC

a reply to: RedCairo

Look. I'm not trying to defend these drugs. I'm just saying that things aren't always as bad as they paint them out to be.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

So if they told you about how there are plenty of functioning Americans who take either meth or heroin it would destroy that image.

Sorry. I have to agree with #Red Cairo on this one. I don't believe there are any functioning Americans that are on meth or heroin, let alone plenty of them.

If they are skating they are just ticking time bombs that are seconds away from destruction.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

So what do you call the tons of opiate pill users prescribed pills for their aches and pains? You do know that percocet is an opiate just like heroin right?

a reply to: Krazysh0t
There is no reason to think of them as anything but people treating their legitimate pain, as long as they are under the treatment of a physician, and obtaining the prescriptions legally.

People with chronic pain may be dependent on pain medication to function in life, but they are not true addicts if the medications help them live halfway normal lives.

I can tell you from experience, that it is a separate kind of hell of its own, to live with pain every second of you life, both waking and sleeping.

Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on what time of the day it is, or how I am feeling, pain medications, especially opioids don't work for me, so I have no path to relief. Even sleep is not always a refuge. I don't even know if death will bring me relief, since nobody knows what we take with us to the other side.

I some days envy those that can take pain medication and I do not begrudge them their relief. I don't think anyone that hasn't walked a mile in their shoes has a right to judge, accuse them of anything or take anything away from them.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

So you make an exception for people suffering from pain? In any case, I can tell you for a fact that I know a handful of pill abusers that function just fine in society. One barely does them anymore.

This rehab site puts addiction of heroin around 23% of all first time users. Can You Become Addicted to Heroin the First Time?

Naturally, 23% is a VERY disturbing number, but that still means that 3 out of 4 users don't end up addicted.

a reply to: Krazysh0t
KS, think about what you are saying.

If people are abusing drugs, how can they possibly be functioning normally?

It is not normal to abuse drugs, so they may be successfully in hiding their dysfunction, for the time being, but they are still a ticking time bomb.

It is not that I am making an exception for people that take pain medication, that have legitimate pain. That is the purpose of pain medication. Pain medication is for the treatment of pain.

People that are taking pain medication that do not have pain, and are obtaining the medication illegally, are not normal, and are being deceptive on more than one level.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

So you think everyone who uses drugs recreationally will eventually be an addicted mess?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

So you think everyone who uses drugs recreationally will eventually be an addicted mess?

If they are abusing drugs, and they continue to abuse drugs, yes.

An alcoholic will tell you that "One drink is too many and one drink is never enough. Drug abuse is very deceptive. It tricks you into thinking you control the drugs, but with time the drugs completely controls you, no matter how much you tell yourself otherwise.

When you travel the path of drug abuse there are only 3 ways to get off.

Voluntarily
Pushed
Death

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Well I severely disagree with you, but I really can't go into why.