The older mind verses youth in media

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You're missing the son side of it. Besides without the son parents interaction we're missing that emotional connection.

originally posted by: Puppylove
I think part of the problem was the character development felt too rushed.

As is likely the case with most modern acting. There is production pressure for a dedicated release date regardless of the venue. This reduces the ability of the actors to 'get into the head' of the character they're playing.

Also, modern movies dedicate more money to special effects than they did during the grand hollywood era... the acting has become secondary.

If I want glitz, guns and explosions, then the current spate of movies and TV shows are OK.
If I want great acting, I watch TCM (btw, Clockwork Orange is playing in February - woo hoo).

SPOILERS

originally posted by: Puppylove
You're missing the son side of it.

I did not miss it, it was in the film. When he is speaking to Vader's helmet he makes it clear the Light side is pulling him and that he does not want to have to kill Han.

Besides without the son parents interaction we're missing that emotional connection.

Again, it was implied that they were happy up until the Dark Side started to manifest and they became concerned and let Luke train him.

originally posted by: masqua
...(btw, Clockwork Orange is playing in February - woo hoo).

Kind of hard to top one of the masters of cinema.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Implied is not the same as seeing at least something. It felt missing to me is all.

originally posted by: Puppylove
Implied is not the same as seeing at least something. It felt missing to me is all.

Which is why I asked if you like expository dialogue.

I prefer the 'show, don't tell' method of film making.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That's the problem, they didn't show what their relationship was like before, they just gave a short little dialogue implying it vaguely.

There was no showing of any kind. Just tiny little scenes with extreme results, with no proper build up.

There's another angle I should mention.

I have a relative who was the lead on a popular television series and, in going onward after the show was cancelled, went on to audition for other shows. Taking one which showed much promise to her career, she began working on the set.

All that came crashing down when she was pressured to do a nude scene.

She quit immediately and now does other work besides acting in the industry. That might also be a detrimental aspect to aspiring actors in general, and raises the question about 'porn lite' and its effects. I understand why she did not want to do this scene as it will be repeated a thousand times to the general public. Not everyone is an Anthony Weiner.

SPOILERS

originally posted by: Puppylove
That's the problem, they didn't show what their relationship was like before, they just gave a short little dialogue implying it vaguely.

How did not showing them as a happy family prior to the current events make you think they were not happy?

There was no showing of any kind. Just tiny little scenes with extreme results, with no proper build up.

When I say 'show' it does not necessarily mean via images, it means do not be in your face, 'Hey, look at this! Is this a plot device?' It implies the use of subtlety.

Please don't share too much about the New Star Wars movie. There are many here who are waiting to see it.

dbl post

a reply to: masqua

Sorry, good point. I usually put a spoiler warning in.

I will go back and add them.

ETA: Done.

Sorry Masqua - I thought it was a free for all now







a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

SPOILER HERE TOO!






(at what point can we stop doing this?) :-)

That is what I meant, flashbacks are expository, the only had the one and tried not to force the plot down your throat.

Also, do you need a flashback to show you that parents love their child?

I thought when Han caressed his face just before falling over the edge - I had just seen a new element introduced into a Star Wars film. Something a little less superficial than usual

Having said that - the superficiality is part of the genius of Star Wars. At least the originals - the last few forgot what it was that made it all magic. These are not great films - but they are great stories. While I'm willing to admit that it's partly nostalgia that got me going, I also had to reevaluate all that when I (finally!) got to see this last one

There is a wonderful graphic novel quality about Star Wars that works for the same reasons graphic novels work - symbolism

I went in expecting to be satisfied - but I was actually moved

SPOILERS.

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis

(at what point can we stop doing this?) :-)

Well, considering it just moved into first place as the highest grossing domestic film I think not much longer.

I thought when Han caressed his face just before falling over the edge - I had just seen a new element introduced into a Star Wars film. Something a little less superficial than usual

I agree. It was an enhancement over the death of Ben Kenobi as Han and Kylo obviously had a more meaningful past and this was much deeper. Plus the impact of loosing such a beloved character.

Having said that - the superficiality is part of the genius of Star Wars. At least the originals - the last few forgot what it was that made it all magic. These are not great films - but they are great stories. While I'm willing to admit that it's partly nostalgia that got me going, I also had to reevaluate all that when I (finally!) got to see this last one

Which is why when I gave my opinion on this film I compared it to a combination of both IV and V as it had the best elements of both. I have now seen it several times and I honestly think it may be the best one made due to the more mature plot line. It is the anti-Jar Jar by a mile.

There is a wonderful graphic novel quality about Star Wars that works for the same reasons graphic novels work - symbolism

I went in expecting to be satisfied - but I was actually moved

I certainly found myself to be much more emotionally invested in this one due to how the plot developed and the impact of the characters in the story.

Im still going to say it has a lot to do with the movies. Hollywood makes movies for a world wide audience today and so much of the dialogue is lost in translation that they don't waste their time refining the script.
Watch a foreign film that has been dubbed over in English. You watch it and think, is this supposed to be good?
Star Wars is one of those movies. Huge box office if foreign countries.

I have not seen concussion, but I bet the script is well written because that movie will only play in the United States. To bad it's after erf will smith staring.

Young actors like ele fanning can't show how good they are today.

a reply to: Puppylove

Is it our minds are to a large degree, products of our environment? We grow up with certain types of input and our consciousness develops around that input? Not only develops, but locks around that particular bit of information telling us this is funny or that is good singing or acting, or even, dare I say it, TRUTH? As the input grows or changes it seems to not jive with our per-established sense of things? The older we grow the more difficult it is to stay in tune with the changing input? I think that this is part of the answer?

I'm 70 and at an early age was raised on my parents 'swing' music of the 30s and 40s. And I loved it. But my friends were listening to 50s rock. And I like it to. But my father hated it. Wouldn't let me listen to it in his house. Finally when I made him listen to the Beach Boys and their wonderful harmonies did he relent even the slightest. He let me listen to the Beach Boys, but then I pushed the envelope to far and brought home James Browns, "Papas Got a Brand New Bag" and the shtf.

But I also found that his generation spurned the music of the 1920s and they, the music of the 1890s. And I understood that music changes over time. So I vowed to stay as open to all types of music as I could.

In the 1980s I realized that people ten years my junior only, ONLY listened to music of the late 60s and 70s. The music of their teenage years. Much of everything else was old had or bad. By this time I was listening to all manner of music from across the world and across the ages. I was in wonderland the music was so exciting. But then something happened.

To my mind anyway, the music turned to repetitive. Beat after beat seemed the same. Voice after voice seemed the same. Back in my youth I could tell you exactly who the singer was even if I had never heard the song before. But now, not on your life. They all sound the same to me. For the most part. Even knowing how one generation eschews the pop culture of the previous generation I could still not grow to appreciate much of what was going on around me.

I now, and this is only for now, chalk this up to pop culture. It seems to me, even though I could easily be wrong, that pop culture is to blame. Pop culture is not driven by an artistic urge be it musical, theatrical or whatever, It is driven by money alone and how well a product is received by the masses. And if the product is not going to provide a good return on the investment of the producers, then it does not get produced and things stagnate.

This is only a sketchy mental outline of my own P, but it does let me continue to believe that I am not completely around the corner, that my own sense of art are still valid. There is a whole bunch of stuff out there that is posing as 'art' in this form or that, that has nothing to do with art, only profit and that I think is part of what you are seeing in all these younger actors. They are not, many of them, not artists, or even actors. Just pretty faces that can copy the mannerisms of all the pretty faces before them to the tune of the producers bank book.

And the masses roll on.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
Im still going to say it has a lot to do with the movies. Hollywood makes movies for a world wide audience today and so much of the dialogue is lost in translation that they don't waste their time refining the script.
Watch a foreign film that has been dubbed over in English. You watch it and think, is this supposed to be good?
Star Wars is one of those movies. Huge box office if foreign countries.

I have not seen concussion, but I bet the script is well written because that movie will only play in the United States. To bad it's after erf will smith staring.

Young actors like ele fanning can't show how good they are today.

You make an EXCELLENT point Blun. We ARE seeing the entertainment industry morph before our eyes. This goes along with my post just previous to Puppylove. The money behind the movies, the music, the whatever is now producing for the whole world. If it does not bring a profit in India who cares if it is a hit in the US? It is all being watered down if it does not stretch around the world to large masses of people. Pop culture is turning international and what is easily understood across the whole world? Pretty faces, sexy bodies, action and special effects.

Actually you make an EXCEPTIONALLY EXCELLENT POINT.

a reply to: Puppylove

I agree totally . I am older than you and find some younger actors very irritating and very "fake".

I think it has to do with the following reasons :-

1)In the past , actors gave a lot of themselves ; they really got under the skin of the characters they were playing. This does not seem to happen with younger actors.

2)In the past movies were made for people of all ages. Now , you get the feeling that the movie is "targeting" an audience. You also get the feeling that you are not really wanted if you are of a certain age.

3)Casting used to be done very carefully. Attention was given to facial features and general demeanor that would fit. Nowadays, the selection/casting is political.

4)Actors of the old school understood acting much better. They (and directors) appreciated the need for the viewer to connect to the characters and that is where the silent brooding moments, special gaze and all sorts of other facial expressions helped give the movie atmosphere and create the relationship. Nowadays, it is all bland and empty ; just shouting, running, swearing , talking fast, etc.

I really enjoy the movies that my grandparents used to watch. I always feel that actors in those movies respected you, the spectator.

Perhaps it is comparable to tennis. These days the players don't care about the spectators. They will swear, shout abuses, misbehave on the oitch . They are self-important.

To be Fair Mark Hamil was not so great in the Original 3 either.

www.youtube.com...

i think a big part of fictional media, especially fantasy, is that you instinctively want to paste yourself over the main character. so yeah i think its a bias thing. im 25 i loved the new characters. i think the actors weren't all that great but i think they filled their roles pretty well. i identified with them. so maybe im biased towards liking them.