Technology is confiscated by private interests

The only demand that is worth making for any activist who wants to change things is to ask for the socialisation of the means of production. Any other demand is, in the grand scheme of things, a waste of time. People are usually not aware of the state of technology today : we could build fully automated factories which could produce many different commodities, and this factory could be public property. But technology today is confiscated by multinational corporations that use it for their own profit. Today, scarcity is artificially maintained. It should be the role of the government to empower its citizen and to give them the means of their own freedom, but governments have been hijacked by private interests. Theoretically, governments are the highest manifestation of the will to cooperate of a given community.

Let's imagine government is actually on your side as it should be. Imagine a town of 10,000 people, they come together and think about a way to become self-sufficient. The first logical deduction that they would make is that they should take care of their survival before anything else. Food, fresh water, heating, housing, clothing. They have access to the needed technologies and they start working towards their goal. There are no shareholders waiting for their profits, and government is there to help should the town need anything more in terms of technologies or materials. Remember, in this example the government is actually on your side and represents the larger community. After some time, things are going well : a diversity of vegetables and fruits is being produced and feeds the town through hydroponics and aquaponics in automated factories which require very little human presence or maintenance, energy and heating is being produced through solar, wind, geothermal, etc.. whichever is best suited to the geographical location, houses being 3D printed on site, etc...

Those 10,000 would have actually freed themselves from the archaic struggle for survival. They wouldn't be slaves to corporations in order to survive anymore. They would know that their survival is taken care of by a local system that they actually understand because they would have time to learn and teach. They would have all the time then to research and improve the system.

No human brain should be wasted on menial tasks just to receive enough paper money to barely survive, because that's a damn waste of grey matter. A cashier's brain is a wasted brain. Mankind cannot evolve if at the same time it struggles to survive. We cannot ask an animal's brain to plan for the future, research, build, invent, change, improve, etc., if its immediate survival is at stake. Our instinct of survival is just too strong.

originally posted by: gosseyn
Let's imagine government is actually on your side

You lost me there.

a reply to: gosseyn

The plan sounds good in theory but people can't be bothered to do all those chores.....digging, planting, standing-up, talking, hell i can't be arsed writing thi

A few questions:

1. Does this mean that your automated production systems are essentially Star Trek type replicators?
2. The citizenry is then free to pursue all of the intellectual goals that they please because there are no actual jobs?
3. There is no form of money or wealth?
4. Every citizen is entitled to as much of any resource they want?
5. Is this society made up of random people? Or does this community select the people most likely to make it successful?

So far I'm just curious.

-dex

but what about immigrants? is this community going to ban non-locals from taking residence?

who decides fair share of energy per household? who will repair/maintenance everything from factories to solar cells to houses to roads to utilities. What excess does this town create that allows it to buy solar cells, asphalt, concrete, watermain, lights, etc.
This town needs to not only create enough to sustain itself but enough to trade for the materials. goods, skills, it does not have.

a reply to: gosseyn

Everything you say may be true.

And so....... will this measly thread change anything?

a reply to: jellyrev

but what about immigrants? is this community going to ban non-locals from taking residence?

The townsfolk will write a form of constitution to decide.

who decides fair share of energy per household?

Representatives voted for by the townsfolk will decide.

What excess does this town create that allows it to buy solar cells, asphalt, concrete, watermain, lights, etc.

There will be plenty of good vibes to pay for the goods.

This reminds me of Maslows Hierarchy of Needs.

I'm digging it, gosseyn! I'd hang out with you.

a reply to: EA006

You all forget that money is made up bull#. In such a society, you don't pay for it, because there's no need to pay for it. Getting these things just requires work, effort and materials. All you need is people willing to do the work to acquire the materials and build these things. The only reason this fails is corporate and societal greed. All you need is to kill off the corporate monstrosity and find a better way than cash to motivate people to do the work necessary to get to this superior state of existence.

How to do that I'm not sure, especially with the world in it's current state.

Honestly I'd happily bust my ass to make this possible, only pay I'd need is food and shelter, both of which I'd happily work to help provide.

It will feel so much more fulfilling then working for faceless corporations for table scraps.

a reply to: gosseyn

A society made up of folks with good will, hard work, and common goals. The Mennonite's but with higher technology more or less.

Now take this thread opening post to the White House and demand that all the elite obey it.

Hmmmm, did i just see someone's head flying through the air ?

hate me for saying it if you want, but i believe technology should be controlled. say if we had transporters, our enemies could use them to beam us somewhere. technology needs regulations.

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: gosseyn

Everything you say may be true.

And so....... will this measly thread change anything?

It might change more than your response on it, doesn't it?

originally posted by: Tyrion79

originally posted by: combatmaster
a reply to: gosseyn

Everything you say may be true.

And so....... will this measly thread change anything?

It might change more than your response on it, doesn't it?

Wrong.... imo, the realization of how little this thread actually does to change the status quo is the first step in understanding why there is no real change.

I responded in blue color.

originally posted by: DexterRiley
A few questions:

1. Does this mean that your automated production systems are essentially Star Trek type replicators?
Automation, robotics, 3D printing, hydroponics, etc., are technologies of today
2. The citizenry is then free to pursue all of the intellectual goals that they please because there are no actual jobs?
In this example I just talked about taking care of the survival. There are still jobs, things still need to be done.
3. There is no form of money or wealth?
The goal would be to remove the profit parameter from the survival equation. In this example, there is still money for everything else. But nothing would stop people from going further once the survival is taken care of. Totally free communication, why not ? A free communication device, for every individual (read smartphone), why not ? And so on, and so on, until money becomes a thing of the past.
4. Every citizen is entitled to as much of any resource they want?
To as much as every resource they need. No one is hungry, no one is cold, no one is without a roof, no one is without running water. No one has to fight to survive anymore, or should I say : everyone is aware that there is a system that sustains the survival of the community, We can also imagine that during the education of children, they are taught about the system. Everyone knows what the system is, how it works, how it should be maintained, why the system is important, etc.. In an ideal world, everyone is a scientist.
5. Is this society made up of random people? Or does this community select the people most likely to make it successful?
Any existing community that is willing.
So far I'm just curious.

-dex

If it is difficult to imagine such a situation, then imagine that 10,000 people are dropped on a distant planet, and they need to organise to sustain their survivability. Or just imagine that you see our planet for the first time, forgetting about every ideology of past centuries and millennia, that's how I do it personally.

originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: EA006

You all forget that money is made up bull#. In such a society, you don't pay for it, because there's no need to pay for it. Getting these things just requires work, effort and materials. All you need is people willing to do the work to acquire the materials and build these things. The only reason this fails is corporate and societal greed. All you need is to kill off the corporate monstrosity and find a better way than cash to motivate people to do the work necessary to get to this superior state of existence.

How to do that I'm not sure, especially with the world in it's current state.

Honestly I'd happily bust my ass to make this possible, only pay I'd need is food and shelter, both of which I'd happily work to help provide.

It will feel so much more fulfilling then working for faceless corporations for table scraps.

I want to help explain intermediary exchange, the means of indirect interpersonal exchange.

When a commodity becomes "commonly used", it is money, an economic good so widely respected for its intrinsic (precious) or uncounterfeitable nature that people accept it in place of directly bartered goods or services.

a reply to: gosseyn

governments are the highest manifestation of the will to cooperate of a given community.

Theoretically, yes.

The UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a foreign controlled, private corporation. In 1944, the US Corp was quit claimed to the IMF, the people of the United States of America adjusted to be enemies of the US Corp. in 1933. No will to cooperate with any given community.

Any technology belonging to US Corp. is also not publically held.

Where would private interests not be served?

a reply to: gosseyn

Thank you for your idea, I love it!

I believe it would work, however the corporate geed has already bought our leaders and the only way to have this wonderful life is to overthrow our governments.

The American people fear our government and are convinced the government is to powerful to overthrow.

If the people were not so afraid they would have already done an overthrow years ago, in my opinion.

But I love the plan, and that is what man should be doing, not being a slave. That is not our real purpose anyway.

a reply to: gosseyn

Lets take your other thread into consideration. The one about social advancement (or lack thereof) versus technological advancement.

The problem is that they are perceived to go hand in hand, but of course, just because our tools advance doesn't mean that we do. In this way, the stifling effect of proprietary industry serves as a method to protect us from.. us.

That isn't to suggest the organizations themselves have altruistic motives though. The same argument could also be made in regards to currently existing power structures in general. The issue is that the people in control operate in the same cultural paradigm as the rest of us; the "haves" and the "have nots" along with misplaced concepts of value, and other issues.

Anyway, I think that big shifts in technology need to be handled in the right way a lot of the time. Something like a new, ultra efficient method of energy generation, while "needed," can end up causing more harm than good if introduced incorrectly. Everything from the economy to weapons platforms could be affected.

Getting to such a point would take a while, perhaps generations. Though, we could start now by creating social programs that foster self-sufficiency and independence. Instead of providing the end result (money), we should meet needs directly with goods and devices that will eventually lead to self-suffiency in perpetuity.

Without that, or a similar foundational shift, I am concerned that any change to the status quo would not have the desired results as it would be born out of an ages old cultural paradigm which has predictable results.