Machete-wielding vandal leaves 3 pounds of bacon at Florida mosque

a reply to: Liquesence

No, you don't.

I am talking about the depth of spiritual affront for those involved. That's what you are missing.

For a Muslim, picking up bacon (or any pork) is a spiritual affront on par with asking a Christian to participate in a wedding that mocks God.

You are talking about the intent to intimidate and the intent to discriminate. Those are external.

I am talking about the internal, spiritual effects of the acts on the religious persons involved.

a reply to: ketsuko

I understand what you're saying.

They are still different, because they are two different issues regardless of the core similarity of personal offense you're insisting on.

According to Muslims, Bacon is unclean, so Muslims don't want anything to do with it.

According to most Christians, Homosexuality is unclean which is why they don't engage in it, just like Muslims don't engage with pork. Christians still engage with gays in general, and cakes themselves are not gay. The proprietors of the shop is not directly participating in the wedding, and the JOB of the proprietor is to make cakes. They can't simply choose for whom they will make a cake. It's discrimination.

These things I mentioned are external, yes, but that doesn't mean that because someone finds some internal, personal excuse to not do something that s/he should be legally able to not do it. That opens the flood gates for a social mess, and we're trying to avoid that.

A Muslim opens a shop he has every right to not stock pork if he chooses, and if he doesn't stock it he can't sell it. A Christian (or anyone, Muslim included) opens a bake shop he can't choose to whom to sell.

Does a Christian store owner have the right to deny making a cake for a single unwed woman who's pregnant because it's sinful? Or refuse to make a cake for a person getting married for the third time. Can a Christian bookshop refuse to sell a book to a gay or a Muslim? No.

Does a store owner have the right to refuse service to blacks, Muslims, etc? No. And neither can they because of sexual orientation.

It's discrimination.

The Muslims at the mosques were not being discriminated against they were being intimidated.

THAT is the difference.

a reply to: Liquesence

Does a muslim cafeteria lady at an elementary school have the right to choose not to make hotdogs and place them on the lunch tray for students?

a reply to: queenofswords

I would assume so or she might be allowed to wear gloves.

a reply to: ketsuko

How do you know someone did it out of hate.

The other option being......."ignorance"??



Cake or death, dear?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

We're not refighting that battle.

I am trying to outline the depth of spiritual disgust bacon provokes, but for those who hold nothing sacred, it is impossible to understand.



You think they are intimidated by it, but that's not it. They are disgusted by it. It makes them spiritually impure and unclean. That is different.

The pig's head is a real threat as well as being spiritually unclean.

a reply to: Liquesence

I came across this article today and wanted to share it with the community because it is yet ANOTHER example that shows how the anti-muslim hate infecting a large segment of the country seems to be increasing more than ever this election cycle.

And yet no one was beheaded, beaten or even killed.

Weird.

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Liquesence

I came across this article today and wanted to share it with the community because it is yet ANOTHER example that shows how the anti-muslim hate infecting a large segment of the country seems to be increasing more than ever this election cycle.

And yet no one was beheaded, beaten or even killed.

Weird.

It's a good thing no one was harmed, which I said in the OP.

Why is this weird?

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Liquesence

I came across this article today and wanted to share it with the community because it is yet ANOTHER example that shows how the anti-muslim hate infecting a large segment of the country seems to be increasing more than ever this election cycle.

And yet no one was beheaded, beaten or even killed.

Weird.

It's a good thing no one was harmed, which I said in the OP.

Why is this weird?

Because generally hate by Muslims of non-believers ends up in death. At least they don't have to deal with the deadly hate that they perpetrate on other belief systems.

a reply to: ketsuko

We're not refighting that battle.

About whom are you speaking? You and I? Or the Christian/Muslim thing..?

I am trying to outline the depth of spiritual disgust bacon provokes, but for those who hold nothing sacred, it is impossible to understand.

Ya know what? I saw that video on CNN about the asshats throwing a pig's head at a mosque. They showed it over and over, like a gif.

What nauseated me was the fact that it was the head of an innocent animal.

If you all believers and crusaders want to do that kind of crap to each other, well ---------------
whatever.

Leave the animals alone.

I'm going to adopt this stance for a while, I think:

a reply to: Metallicus

Funny, I met a really nice Muslim from Egypt when I was in Spain. We hung out a bit and talked about our different world perspectives. I never once got the hint he secretly wanted to kill me.

I don't think you can paint all Muslims as having a "death to all non-believers" mentality.

Just like you can't paint all white, male Christians as KKK-types.

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Liquesence

Does a muslim cafeteria lady at an elementary school have the right to choose not to make hotdogs and place them on the lunch tray for students?

Possibly. And likely, but this is a more complicated issue. On the one hand, she shouldn't have taken the job if she can't perform her duties; on the other hand, her religion specifically forbids handling or consuming pork and we have the right to not be persecuted because of our religion (which is completely different than the cake issue, or the Christian pharmacist who refuses to sell BC, etc).

And I see where you're headed with this.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Liquesence

I came across this article today and wanted to share it with the community because it is yet ANOTHER example that shows how the anti-muslim hate infecting a large segment of the country seems to be increasing more than ever this election cycle.

And yet no one was beheaded, beaten or even killed.

Weird.

It's a good thing no one was harmed, which I said in the OP.

Why is this weird?

Because generally hate by Muslims of non-believers ends up in death. At least they don't have to deal with the deadly hate that they perpetrate on other belief systems.

Funny.

How many Muslims are in the US?

How many of those have actually perpetuated violence against a non-believer because of that? What percentage?

Fail.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

That girl rocks I forget the video chloe isn't it?.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Metallicus

Funny, I met a really nice Muslim from Egypt when I was in Spain. We hung out a bit and talked about our different world perspectives. I never once got the hint he secretly wanted to kill me.

I don't think you can paint all Muslims as having a "death to all non-believers" mentality.

Just like you can't paint all white, male Christians as KKK-types.

I wasn't painting ALL Muslims with that brush. I never said that, however, when Muslims DO hate they tend to kill the target of their hatred rather than dropping agricultural projects on their property.

I don't appreciate you extrapolating what I said to ALL MUSLIMS as I specifically said Muslim hate which wouldn't apply to Muslims who don't hate.

Eh not that anyone cares but whatever its a discussion forum...
Anyone who wants to can go through my posts and will surmise that I am pretty hard right/libertarian. I claim a Christian Faith denounce Gun Control, the whole bit.
So with all that being said, yea what the guy did is without excuse. He ran into a Place of Worship, (A faith I personally have virtually no agreement with, from my understanding of it's soteriology) swinging a machete around and putting the attendants there in a very real state of distress.
Now I know that being placed in a state of distress is not in fact the same thing as having your head cut off, however that being said, to the greatly devout it can almost be worse.
As a Christian we are told it is better to die for Christ than to live for ourselves.

Luke 9:23:26
23 Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it.
25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self?
26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

So assuming that the Muslims that go there are in fact true blue believers and their faith says that touching pork is a sin, then putting them in a position to have to clean the pork up or attempting to get to do so is the same thing as trying to force a Christian to deny living for Christ and taking up a life of sin.

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Liquesence

I came across this article today and wanted to share it with the community because it is yet ANOTHER example that shows how the anti-muslim hate infecting a large segment of the country seems to be increasing more than ever this election cycle.

And yet no one was beheaded, beaten or even killed.

Weird.

It's a good thing no one was harmed, which I said in the OP.

Why is this weird?

Because generally hate by Muslims of non-believers ends up in death. At least they don't have to deal with the deadly hate that they perpetrate on other belief systems.

Funny.

How many Muslims are in the US?

How many of those have actually perpetuated violence against a non-believer because of that? What percentage?

Fail.

Not all Muslims hate nor did I say anything about that...only that Muslims who do hate tend to be killers. YOU are the one that took that to the next level. The fail is your lack of reading comprehension.

a reply to: boymonkey74

That girl rocks I forget the video chloe isn't it?.

I have no idea who she is.....I thought it was a snip of a home movie.......

it's just a gif I found when I searched for 'confused kid' several months ago.

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: queenofswords
a reply to: Liquesence

Does a muslim cafeteria lady at an elementary school have the right to choose not to make hotdogs and place them on the lunch tray for students?

Possibly. And likely, but this is a more complicated issue. On the one hand, she shouldn't have taken the job if she can't perform her duties; on the other hand, her religion specifically forbids handling or consuming pork and we have the right to not be persecuted because of our religion (which is completely different than the cake issue, or the Christian pharmacist who refuses to sell BC, etc).

And I see where you're headed with this.

I don't see it as any different whatsoever from the cake issue. On the spiritual health issue, it is exactly the same. You are doing something that supports or contributes to something you detest or find spiritually unhealthy.

Persecution? How so? Individuals may hate your muslim belief system and they may do gross things like smear bacon on the doorknob of a mosque, but persecution? Get real. I don't think so. If anything, Americans bend over backward to accommodate the muslim religion. Christians are more persecuted than muslims in today's world.

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Metallicus

originally posted by: Liquesence

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Liquesence

I came across this article today and wanted to share it with the community because it is yet ANOTHER example that shows how the anti-muslim hate infecting a large segment of the country seems to be increasing more than ever this election cycle.

And yet no one was beheaded, beaten or even killed.

Weird.

It's a good thing no one was harmed, which I said in the OP.

Why is this weird?

Because generally hate by Muslims of non-believers ends up in death. At least they don't have to deal with the deadly hate that they perpetrate on other belief systems.

Funny.

How many Muslims are in the US?

How many of those have actually perpetuated violence against a non-believer because of that? What percentage?

Fail.

Not all Muslims hate nor did I say anything about that...only that Muslims who do hate tend to be killers. YOU are the one that took that to the next level. The fail is your lack of reading comprehension.

It's not my reading comprehension it's your lack of clarity. The implication was pretty clear.

Had you originally said what you said above, there would be little confusion.