Could you please answer this hypothetical for me......

a reply to: intrptr

OP's scenario doesn't include a fix it option, the ship is sinking.

this is only one of the reasons why its so absurd .

any hole will have a " litres / minuite flood rate "

the hull will have a calculable flooded volume before she flounders

any damage control [ pumping // hull repair // lightening the load ( jettisoning ballast // cargo // etc etc ) etc etc will increase the ships life span before she flounders

this is so basic that the threads insistence on ignoring DC is so assanine

the exestance of a " secret lifeboat " known only to a previously undiscovered stowayway is just jumping the shark

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Thats why I surmised its a real dilemma OP posed as hypothetical.

Remembers before got on ship/craft there would be risk with responsibilities so follows orders, but also watches the stowaways movements in case they panic and go for the life raft they hid.

Walks halls of craft-ship alone looking for secondary flotation devices and thinks what is taking captain so long.

Sees stowaway keeps disappearing near kitchen area, WATCHES

a reply to: lavatrance

(note: I haven't read any of the replies, just the OP.) I'll be honest: it sounds like you're in a huge dilemma in life but have been given a risky opportunity that may help you. But the opportunity goes against your core beliefs. I consider these "spiritual tests". Spiritually, the risky opportunity isn't worth it. This is literally the same thing I say when someone's who's going through hard times has an "opportunity" to sell or ship drugs, trade sex for money w/a boss or would-be client, or rob somebody. This is also the same trap/"opportunity" that gets many women caught up in the human trafficking system.

As for the example in the OP, has the main character looked for other materials that can float? Wood floats, many plastic things float, etc. Why not gather as many chairs, tables, plastic bottles, and other things like this first? Shoelaces and duct tape can temporarily work wonders, especially if the main character has any tools or skills in crafts, construction, etc. Not enough info here from this perspective.

(I admit, at first I thought this was a metaphor for rich political leaders who are letting a country burn while they have their assets overseas. And the shady figure is some intelligence officer or arms dealer from an enemy country, who's offering "help" in exchange for the main character selling out to that enemy country. Shows where my mind is...)

a reply to: lavatrance

Well captain allegory will sink with his ship and first mate personal experience needs to find another ship before he ends up in debt Jones' locker.

And I wouldn't trust captain schemer, he was first mate of Captain Ponzi. Tally ho!

originally posted by: lavatrance
I have a hypothetical situation for you....

You're a sailer on an old fashioned gallion (ship) and you're out on the open ocean. The gallion hits a reef which punches a small hole in the hull. The ship starts to sink very slowly, could be days or maybe weeks tops before it goes under, you're really not sure. If it sinks you'll surely die. Meanwhile the captain of the ship who's your boss gives very stern orders that all crew are to remain on the ship and not try to get off it on a life raft. Meanwhile the captain himself goes off on a liferaft, but stays near the ship.

The captain tells you that he's sent a rescue SOS to nearby ships. Meanwhile staying in the safety of a his lifeboat. The captain shouts at the crew from the lifeboat telling them that the lifeboats are too risky. But that if they wait, the rescue ship will eventually arrive, and save the crew.

So at first you decide to wait on the ship. Meanwhile some other crew mates make a run for it and take the last remaining lifeboats against the captains orders.

So now the ship you're on is slowly sinking. You're panicked, stressed out, scared and perplexed. Your captain still remains close to the ship barking orders that all remaining crew are to remain on the sinking ship, and that help is on it's way, that's his orders. You're affraid that if you disobey the captains orders that you could face trouble later on if and when the ship actually gets rescued.

So you're below deck looking around to see if there's anything that could be used as a floatation device. YOu're beginning to pannick. This this stow away creeps out of the shadows. He says to you: "look I know you need a lifeboat. I'll tell you what, for $100 bucks I'll show you where the last lifeboat is hidden. Deal?

So you can pay this person in the hopes they will show you were the lifeboat is hidden. And if you get that lifeboat you'll be safe, but you'll be going against your captains orders. You might even get in some trouble if you're catch leaving the sinking vessel on a lifeboat. As you were given orders now to leave the sinking boat.

So now you have 2 choices, pay the dude 100 bucks for a map showing where the last lifeboat is hidden. Then use that life boat to escape the sinking ship, even if that means going against your ship captain (you still don't know if your captain is ultimately trying to save you or not, but you know getting in a lifeboat on the open ocean is very risky as well). Or..... you can stay on the sinking ship and wait for that rescue that never happened yet, which means you could end up sinking and dying before help can arrive.

So do you follow your captains orders and remain on a sinking ship?

or

Do you pay the fee and get the map which could show you where the last hidden life raft ?


Ultimately you realize that you're faced with two major delemahs. Each posing great risk, risk of death even. What do you do. Take the risk of staying on the sinking ship? Or disobey a direct order and try and find a way off this sinking ship???

=================

Your thoughts???? Thanks.



My first dilemma is accepting the hypothetical you set up. I'm with you , til the dude offers to show where the hidden life-boat is for a $100. If you're on a sinking ship, who's going to care about exchanging money for the location of the last life-boat ? Anyway.....early on in the hypothetical I would of been ignoring the captain and would have gotten in a life-boat and left the galleon. What kind of captain leaves his sinking ship and orders the crew to stay on board ?

I have some questions.

Why wouldn't the stowaway take the lifeboat himself? If the ship is bound to sink, what good is $100 (especially if it's paper money.)

Why is the captain staying close to the ship just waiting for it to sink? Is there something he wants to take advantage of when it happens?

Is this a question about the Stock Market or some other financially risky venture? If it is, you are right to watch out for that captain and be suspicious of that stowaway.

Use your head, and trust your gut.

oh bollox to this - i have the solution :

as alledgedly only you and the stowaway are on board

step one :

garroyye the stowataw and using a peice of chain - throw his body over the gunnall [ out of sight of captain ]

step 2 :

break into ships armoury - aquire musket and powder

step 3

shoot captain - and throw musket overboad

NB - loss of musket and damage to armoury to be blamed on the mete who deserted

step 4

weight down captains body and dispose of said corpse

step 5

search entire ship and locate hidden life boat

step 6

sink captains life bloat

step 7 -

assemble all portable provisions and make ready to abandon ship in provisioned boat - if required

step 8 -

sit back and follow captains instructions

HINT - captain dintd forbid you to shoot him or murder stowaays

step 9 -

await rescue

if rescue does not arrive before ship flounders - take to lifeboat and await rescue

step 10

be sole survivor hero


you have TECHNICALLY remained loyal and followed all orders within reason

hypothesise that you cnuts

No matter what, the captain is responsible for all souls on that ship. furthermore the captain cannot order the crew to stay on board while abandoning ship himself. Traditionally salvage rights become an issue when the ship is abandoned, there are stories of crew loyal to the insurance company who have stayed on ship till the last to preserve the right of salvage. Another important factor is where is the ships home port, this determines which laws apply. Many countries have laws stating the captain must stay aboard to assist the evacuation of all passengers and crew. There are a few examples of modern captains acting so despicably but their excuse was they gave the order to abandon and its the choice of the individual if they choose to stay. To further destroy the story all crew are trained and aware of the abandon ship protocol, its usually outlined in the contract they sign when employed.

That being addressed, just to play along, I have to second and third the many voices around here who would commandeer the ship and take it for themselves. A leak so slow as to make rescue days later a viable option means the water can be pumped by bilge and the leak repaired. Cargo can be jettisoned to lighten the load and decrease the draft. (The volume of ship below the water line) Should the traitorous captain attempt to re-board the ship after the remaining crew and I resolve the situation, he shall be confined to the brig until such a time as he can be brought to the authorities and be charged with his crimes. If this ship is a pirate vessel he will be executed by keel hauling. The stowaway gets tossed overboard without his $100 and without a lifeboat, nor with any other means of flotation. The officers and crew members that abandoned without regard to their fellow crew can be brought back on board to determine their level of culpability. Officers at minimum loose their rank, if the ship can be run without them and their loyalty cannot be determined they get set adrift. Crew members will get minor punishments but are to remain until a safe port can be made and they can be replaced. Crew members that stayed on board and assisted in repairs get promotions according to the vacancy and previous positions And so begins the voyage of Captain ApparentlyStupid. Huzzah!

a reply to: lavatrance

As soon as the captain abandoned ship, his orders were no longer valid. The next highest ranking officer would not be the captain. HIS orders are what would matter

If it's taking that long to sink the ship, the hole isn't large. You should be able to patch it with things you have on board. Patch that sucker and look! free ship that you are now captain of.

a reply to: lavatrance


After some consideration, this would be my plan of action:

Give the stowaway the $100 to see if he actually knows the whereabouts of a hidden life boat. If he does, move the lifeboat to the main deck, stock it with supplies and wait in the lifeboat.

If the captain did indeed signal for help and they show up before the ship sinks, then all is well and you haven't disobeyed the captain's order to not leave the ship.

If help does not arrive and the ship is sinking very slowly, there's a good chance it will simple sink out from under you and you will be left floating in the lifeboat.

If the stowaway has lied about the lifeboat, build a raft with whatever is available, stock it with supplies and charge the stowaway $200 to board the raft.

There is some problems with your hypothetical situation.
1.) The Captain would never leave his ship, if he does he is no longer the Captain. So no one would be listening to him give orders. He abandoned ship.
2.) There are no secret places to store a life boat on a ship. Every crewman knows where everything is stored on a ship. Besides lifeboats are big and cannot be hidden.
3.) A hole in the hull that small is something a couple of pumps could handle, until the ships carpenter could plug it. There would never had been a chance of the ship sinking.

a reply to: lavatrance

If I may ask... From where this question..Yeah..from the boat I understand.. but does it have any particuliar meaning to you for coming with this question to us?

What would you do?

a reply to: piney

interesting answer

a reply to: lavatrance

I would delicately dangle my netherparts in the water in the hope that I could grow a pair, and then make a decision based on my new found, if testosterone induced bravery.

What do I win???

a reply to: ignorant_ape

no unfortunately this represents an actual real life situation

a reply to: Ceeker63

It's a hypothetical, work with it.

a reply to: lavatrance

no - its utter bollox - and to demonstrate this

Q! - how did the captain send an " SOS to nearby ships " ?

no unfortunately this represents an actual real life situation

It's a hypothetical, work with it.

sigh - internal consistency in threads is way over rated