The 9/11 Conspiracies Forum is a Mess. And it’s The Fault of Many Members

a reply to: Kandinsky

It took 2 pages to make my point heard. And you want to fault me for that? It's irrelevant. 1 post, 2 posts or two pages. It takes what it takes. Calling someone a shill or a paid poster is in NO WAY an insult for crying out loud. PC has rotted the brain to the point no one can tell the difference anymore between being a realist or a bigot. It's pathetic really and it needs to stop. If I'm debating someone over and over and realize it's not an open exchange of thoughts and opinions, but rather just continuous contradiction, lies, based on an agenda to tire an opponent to win favor with your side, that's a shill. It's a tactic worse than ad homs and strawmen. It's a methodical plan based on being disingenuous to perpetuate lies to a naive audience. Who's derailing whom then? I will yield you one point though, using Shill as a means to "Win" an argument is wrong. But using Shill is only brevity for saying "I don't believe you are who you say you are and I think you are paid to contradict anyone who disagrees with you for the sake of causing confusion" What's the point in debating then? It's already over before it starts.

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: daaskapital

I think it's important that people remember that moderators such as yourself are human and can be prone to mistakes. Even though i had my fair share of problems, i was always treated fairly in the end.

I have to agree with you daas, the mods are pretty fair in regards to what gets removed and not. I myself have a few posting bans and they were with good cause, maybe not in the heat of the banning, but in hindsight they were well deserved lol. In fact I was lucky to have got posting privileges back at all in regards to the last ban. They are like everyone else on here, to enjoy the site but they have the added stress of having to deal and moderate all us lunatics. I know that if I ever get another ban (hopefully not) I'll probably deserve it.

This is really a one-sided line of conversation because it is against T&Cs to discuss bans/removing comments. If someone felt they were not treated fairly, they couldn't discuss it openly.

a reply to: daaskapital
Thank you

originally posted by: sosobad
a reply to: daaskapital

I think it's important that people remember that moderators such as yourself are human and can be prone to mistakes. Even though i had my fair share of problems, i was always treated fairly in the end.

I have to agree with you daas, the mods are pretty fair in regards to what gets removed and not. I myself have a few posting bans and they were with good cause, maybe not in the heat of the banning, but in hindsight they were well deserved lol. In fact I was lucky to have got posting privileges back at all in regards to the last ban. They are like everyone else on here, to enjoy the site but they have the added stress of having to deal and moderate all us lunatics. I know that if I ever get another ban (hopefully not) I'll probably deserve it.

I agree. Like you, i've been post-banned before, and even warned on multiple occasions that i was close to termination. In hindsight, i don't know how i wasn't actually banned. I think the moderation here has been pretty consistent, and when i was hit with an off topic post, a serious T&C violation or a post-ban, there was almost always an adequate reason for it. In the end, i actually think i may have been treated more than fairly by the moderators here.

As for ATS in general, i have noticed that standards have decreased during my time here, and i would like to see them improve. It will need to be improved in actions undertaken by moderators, owners and members alike, but i'm willing to do my share.

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Azureblue

When it goes on for page, after page, after page, after page...you see where I'm going with this?

It gets burdensome after about the second page.

When we're required to spend so much time, multiple mods, in one forum, the rest are neglected. So we can't spend as much time as is necessary there. When we come back? those pages and pages I mentioned earlier...

What we want is really very simple.

Agree or disagree with each other all you want. That's a discussion...or argument, if you prefer. That's great.

But when names begin to get tossed around? Or baseless accusations? That's where we draw the line. You know this. You may not know that there aren't very many of us, and we can't catch everything. Those posts that we don't catch are probably the ones that drive members away from the forum, members who might have something interesting to offer, but who aren't interested in being treated like an enemy.

If alerts would make moderating easier maybe the alert system has to be made easier to use. I don't use it often because of a thick skin. I wonder if it would it be difficult to put an alert button on the upper right of the post? Link, Quote, Reply, Alert. Weren't things like that at one time?

Do you see the little green guy at the bottom left of your avatar just click on it for this menu.

I totally agree with this for this reason.

I’ve told this story before but will tell it again.

Years ago I was on a forum-- with little rules--where people literally when bat # insane because of the abuse they got from a group of members who piled up on them. A few Buddhist sect members were proselytizing and were piled up on by the traditionalist Buddhists. Boy it got ugly!!!

It was the ugliest thing I have seen on the internet (and among the ugliest things I’ve seen or heard in my life) and literally changed my own actions.

I felt such pity on the sect people I went on their side and got in the scuffle…shouldn’t have done that.

Believe me folks you don’t want to see such awfulness from human beings when abuse goes too far. Its something you'll never forget and should never see.

It’s a shame because 911 is a vital topic to peruse so we should try to maintain objectivity.

a reply to: Salander

But you can...

Things are always more cordial and civilized when one can ignore certain posters.

Just earlier I was reading a thread and and nearly two pages of it had posts that had to be removed. I saw the posts and knew they should be removed as they were taunting and mocking the OP. It was sad really but, the mod stepped in and did their job. It didn't take very long. The thread was closed, cleaned, and then reopened.
We can ignore one another, skip the individuals posts, just like you can do right now. You see my avatar and skip on by...you don't HAVE to read this.

We should all be adults and I feel (MO) that the more seasoned veterans of ATS should lead by example. THAT would make the mods jobs a little easier (IMO).

Some folks are in the beginning stages of learning, investigating, critical thinking. My views on a lot of subjects have changed in the short time that I've been a member. I, myself, hesitate to comment on some of the "more apt to become volatile" threads because of the bad behavior of some members and I am fearless...imagine what someone "new" to ATS might think...they might think their opinion doesn't/won't matter.

Leading by example does not mean to bully...

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Azureblue

When it goes on for page, after page, after page, after page...you see where I'm going with this?

It gets burdensome after about the second page.

When we're required to spend so much time, multiple mods, in one forum, the rest are neglected. So we can't spend as much time as is necessary there. When we come back? those pages and pages I mentioned earlier...

What we want is really very simple.

Agree or disagree with each other all you want. That's a discussion...or argument, if you prefer. That's great.

But when names begin to get tossed around? Or baseless accusations? That's where we draw the line. You know this. You may not know that there aren't very many of us, and we can't catch everything. Those posts that we don't catch are probably the ones that drive members away from the forum, members who might have something interesting to offer, but who aren't interested in being treated like an enemy.

If alerts would make moderating easier maybe the alert system has to be made easier to use. I don't use it often because of a thick skin. I wonder if it would it be difficult to put an alert button on the upper right of the post? Link, Quote, Reply, Alert. Weren't things like that at one time?

Do you see the little green guy at the bottom left of your avatar just click on it for this menu.

Don't click it on your Avatar, click it on the offending person's Avatar ........... just saying

Unless I'm missing it, I'm seeing very little contrition from those who frequent 9/11 topics, and a great deal of finger-pointing and blaming a few dastardly members who dare challenge the conspiracies.







No change then. Forum remains closed to replies and new threads.

a reply to: Salander

related to the fact that here at ATS, there is no ignore option.

That would make ATS like many other sites where different opinions are not tolerated.
I've been banned from a couple other 'conspiracy' sites where they don't tolerate people who believe in the OS.
One of which has gone belly up.
Likely because of low traffic.

I mean how boring would it be to post on a site that only believes Nibiru is coming?
After everyone says 'yea I believe' , you might as well watch tv.

The 9-11 forums are the same people bashing over the same old arguments that have been going on forever

This is a conspiracy site that is for people that are in to conspiracy why some members feel the need to come on every day to a c-o-n-s-p-i-r-a-c-y [ said it really slowly ] site and fight their corner god only knows

go somewhere else if you believe the o/s or have a forum just for that mindset to frequent and then you could read both camps views on why they see it that way .

a reply to: Salander

I find the request for an ignore button troublesome.

Members who by simply arriving in thread, make it impossible to have a reasoned, substantive and granular debate or discussion, should be dealt with more effectively than that.

The reason I say this is as follows.

Let us say, for example, that a member posts a thread on a divisive topic, but in such a way as to promote a good discussion. Let us also say, that another member posts a response to the topic, which, although contrary to the opinion of the OP, has merit and is a good argument.

Many would be tempted, because of the tribalism I have mentioned previously in this thread, to simply ignore that poster, and would be unable to benefit from their insights further down the road, despite the fact that all the member had to do to invite such a response, is to post honestly an alternative opinion, to the one in the OP.

Now, you cannot cure the tribalism by ignoring it, but you can cure it by making sure that members who indulge themselves in that way, are reported.

originally posted by: InconspicuousObserver
If a devoted mainline democrat walks into the RNC and starts refuting the ideas of the hardcore republicans, they will be met with hostility and name calling etc. Just like happened with this thread.

Maybe that would happen at the RNC but this board isn't the RNC and it shouldn't happen here.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Azureblue

When it goes on for page, after page, after page, after page...you see where I'm going with this?

It gets burdensome after about the second page.

When we're required to spend so much time, multiple mods, in one forum, the rest are neglected. So we can't spend as much time as is necessary there. When we come back? those pages and pages I mentioned earlier...

What we want is really very simple.

Agree or disagree with each other all you want. That's a discussion...or argument, if you prefer. That's great.

But when names begin to get tossed around? Or baseless accusations? That's where we draw the line. You know this. You may not know that there aren't very many of us, and we can't catch everything. Those posts that we don't catch are probably the ones that drive members away from the forum, members who might have something interesting to offer, but who aren't interested in being treated like an enemy.

If alerts would make moderating easier maybe the alert system has to be made easier to use. I don't use it often because of a thick skin. I wonder if it would it be difficult to put an alert button on the upper right of the post? Link, Quote, Reply, Alert. Weren't things like that at one time?

Do you see the little green guy at the bottom left of your avatar just click on it for this menu.

anyone else try to click the x?

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Azureblue

When it goes on for page, after page, after page, after page...you see where I'm going with this?

It gets burdensome after about the second page.

When we're required to spend so much time, multiple mods, in one forum, the rest are neglected. So we can't spend as much time as is necessary there. When we come back? those pages and pages I mentioned earlier...

What we want is really very simple.

Agree or disagree with each other all you want. That's a discussion...or argument, if you prefer. That's great.

But when names begin to get tossed around? Or baseless accusations? That's where we draw the line. You know this. You may not know that there aren't very many of us, and we can't catch everything. Those posts that we don't catch are probably the ones that drive members away from the forum, members who might have something interesting to offer, but who aren't interested in being treated like an enemy.

If alerts would make moderating easier maybe the alert system has to be made easier to use. I don't use it often because of a thick skin. I wonder if it would it be difficult to put an alert button on the upper right of the post? Link, Quote, Reply, Alert. Weren't things like that at one time?

Do you see the little green guy at the bottom left of your avatar just click on it for this menu.

anyone else try to click the x?

Yes. It closes the pop-up box. Am I missing something?

a reply to: AnonnieMuss

I am just relaying my experiences here. I was very very close to losing my account, had a posting ban and one mod in particular (not going to name anyone)** was pming with me over my grievances and basically discussed with me in a friendly manner and told me how my actions were not acceptable, it wasn't the fault of the ones I was insulting or the ones that are trying to get a rise out of me. And it's true, I was the one writing the posts with insulting things in them no one else. At the time of the banning I was cursing them all but looking back now it was pretty damn fair and I was lucky to retain my account after the stuff I said. I am sure if you have a problem with what a mod has removed as long as you are open to dialogue they are willing to listen.

** Never actually thanked that mod properly, not going to name the mod, you probably know who you are but thank you

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

It may take a while, but I have no doubt you will win this battle of wills. lol

a reply to: introvert

I've never brought up that box before, I thought it was a pop-up...nvm

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

This is the natural result of what happens when people can't reconcile Facts vs. Feelings. You believe something alternative to the mainstream. It makes you feel special, uniquely insightful, a power against the deceitful powers that be....and here comes this poster arguing facts, evidence, math etc. attempting to rob you of that special status.

Emotions vs. Reality..

I would argue that those able to rise above emotional thinking and objectively analyze facts and evidence are actually the rebellious thinkers in todays world where both the media and politicians appeal to emotion over substance day after day to move an agenda forward.

Care not about what you want to be true and instead examine each thing for what it really is and you will often be shocked by the truths that hide beneath the surface. You need to examine your own wanting world view first though.

Not easy, I struggle with it with every topic...but it objective thinking and fact based conclusions is a powerful way to navigate things...and their are real world conspiracies afloat out there, they just are not always what you expect or want.

a reply to: pteridine

Well, if this is the desired direction then there should at least be a way to provide an explanation along with an alert. Right now, if I'm not mistaken, clicking on the alert function just results in an acknowledgement an alert has been sent, but there is no context.

Fundamentally, I don't like the alert feature for a couple of reasons:

1. It seems like a easy-out function for someone who's losing a debate. It forces the moderator to read larger portions of the thread to understand why the post was alerted (unless it's patently obvious). It also allows for one to cry foul without the burden of having to explain why.

2. It really smacks of calling "Mommy!". Seems to me if one can't stand the heat maybe they should consider getting out of the kitchen. No personal parting shots, just get out.

The alert function may be different now, the only time I ever clicked it was an accident (on a completely harmless thread too) when I was a newby and didn't know what the function did. I felt bad about it too, not realizing it was a negative thing.