Gun ownership: Because you can? Or because you need?

a reply to: Martin75
That's what I am looking to see, genuine life experiences that helped you form the opinion you have. Thankyou

a reply to: intrptr

Lol. Fair play. Thanks for elaborating.

Well, like most threads that ask a similar question as yours, you treat the issue as if those are the only two reasons to purchase a firearm: Because you can, or because you need.

What about other reasons? Like, collecting firearms, or a love for target shooting, or competition shooting, or because you like to hunt? Most of those don't fall under "needs," but they're much more than just-because-you-can reasons. Also, some guns can be decent investments where you buy it solely for the expectation of making a profit

And then, there are people like me, who own guns for numerous reasons, but the main one being self protection and everyday carry of a concealed deadly weapon. Honestly, this doesn't really fall under the "need" category either, because I carry everyday because I never want to be in a position to where the next assault on my life could be the last, and I'm caught with my pants down because I have nothing more than my hands and feet with which to defend (which I'm getting better at doing every day, but that's besides the point). I carry because of the potential to need it, not because I think I ever will need it. I own them because I want to be prepared for the worst that modern society has to offer, and living outside of a relatively large urban area (Cincinnati, OH) increases my chances of running into random thuggery if travels take me to bad, unfamiliar areas.

My shotgun and AR15 are for the same reasons--in case I need them, but they're also fun to shoot. I was in the military, so I'm very comfortable with the AR platform, and if I ever get into hunting (which I would like to do eventually), I could use it for hunting relatively small-to-medium game, too, although I'd probably get a bolt-action rifle for that.

My point being that you can't always approach this issue with the two extremes of gun ownership: Need vs. just because we can. Usually, the reason falls somewhere in the between. My dad owns 3 firearms that he doesn't necessarily want or need, but because my late grandfather gave them to him; he keeps them simply for sentimental value. That's another reason that doesn't fall under your two proposed reasons.

originally posted by: brace22

I always have felt if you buy a gun... "Because you can"... Isn't it a tad pointless? ... But if you live in a safe city, where crime is low yet you still carry a gun all day every day... Why are you carrying it? ... Also, if all the people in the world stopped carrying guns where they were not needed, wouldn't it make areas even more safer?

The phrase "more safer" aside ( ), it's never pointless to buy something that you can afford and that you want, for whatever the reason. It fulfills a desire that you have, it helps the economy thrive, and it keeps many people in a job.

As for your questions about "why are you carrying for?," the answer is simple--because you may need it. Even when crime is low, it's never non-existent. And carrying a firearm is as much a burden as it is a privilege, and if you don't practice carrying a deadly weapon to the point of absolute comfort and ease of drawing the weapon, only carrying it a few times a year when traveling makes doing so relatively dangerous. Nothing is worse than an untrained person fumbling around with a loaded firearm.

As for the last question--no, removing guns from law-abiding people does not make places safer. There are many, MANY studies that prove that point if you're willing to do the research.

I have read a couple of gun related threads where people have chimed in about owning a gun is a right, so that is all the justification you need. And yes, technically that is okay. However, I technically can have a 250mph car, do I need one though? I can technically have a 10 bed house, but I don't need 10 beds?

Again, gun ownership isn't always about need. But here's the difference, at least with your car analogy--you can't drive your car 250mph in the vast majority of places in America, lest it be a private or closed course. Guns, you can carry most places--sometimes with a license needed, sometimes without--but the place you can exercise your abilities to carry and even use a firearm vastly outweigh where you can drive a car 250mph.

But the point always comes down to this--you don't have to have a reason to exercise your rights. That's the beauty of a right.

You give limited reasons for gun ownership, here's 5 reasons why I have guns.

1. To protect my family in case of intruders.

2. My wife and kids love to target practice, me not so
much.

3. To protect my family from out of control law enforcement and or government.

4. As an investment, hedging against a dollar collapse.

5. Gives me a sense of liberty, that I can attempt to
protect my family without relying on someone
else to save me.

That last one is a big one for me, having liberty means not feeling like a potential victim, it means you have some control over how a situation will play out. Without guns you are at the mercy of your aggressor, the antithesis of liberty.

I don't live my life scared, it's an investment, like a life insurance policy or a 401k. There if I need it.

off-the-shelf guns or rifles are not a necessity

ammo. with the proper triggering device will convert ammo for any firearm into a makeshift grenade
One could easily toss a shotgun shell 50-60 ft or lob further with a slingshot...a David-v-Goliath simile


am I now a domestic terrorist or a Matrix slave whistleblower ?

a reply to: brace22

"But if you live in a safe city..."

There are no "safe" cities in the US. That's the main "why" people in the US chose to conceal carry.

Reason 1
I can own them.
Reason 2
To protect me and mine and that doesn't mean just from humans.
Reason 3
I enjoy shooting

Not everyone that owns a firearm is a raving mass murderer.

It isn't a matter of actual "need" so much as potential need.

I have many tools that I don't actually "need" right now, but I needed them when I bought them and probably will need them again in the future.

A gun is an inanimate object like a ratchet or a hatchet or a tire club, which can also double up and be used as weapons like anything else.

The U.S. is becoming a nation of quivering pussies, living in fear of someone with evil intent on hurting them or whatever.

I would venture to guess that in the end, legislation to reduce the number and availability of any weapon at all is partially the result of insurance companies wanting to avoid paying for injury by firearms....

Insurance has become a force in nearly everything in everyone's lives and probably has a lot of influence over the media to scare people into fearing almost anything, considering the industry has everyone paying it almost by force nowadays...

You know, if you do some research you will find that the numbers regarding gun violence and crime are massaged the same way as the numbers on unemployment are to put a specific point across to the gullible retarded masses on the street to scare them into agreeing to lose another one of their rights.

I don't have problems with people who are against....Whatever it is they may be against....

....But when their stupid fears effect my personal rights, I get kind of annoyed that they are so narrow minded and selfish that they don't see that eliminating anyone's rights comes back to the elimination of their own eventually.

And I have been welcomed by a neighbor in the past when their was a problem about to happen and I showed up with a gun to diffuse the situation, never having the need to fire it or even point it, the problem just left.

It is a tool, when is it they will come for something other than guns just because they decided people don't need it?.

Guess I had better get a crossbow, but they'll just come by later and tell me I don't need that either.

I don't "need" a firearm or a crossbow or a lot of things, but they are always nice to have around just in case I do "need" them.

There are lots of things wrong with the country I live in, and arguing about superficial topics such as this make sure they will never be fixed, ever.

It is written some years ago what rights my government will allow me to enjoy without interference. The definitions have not changed. The reasons behind the preservation of these rights has not changed.

Nothing has changed but the fact that a lot of credence is now given to public opinion and the setting of legal precedent via public opinion, and I can think of nothing less qualified to decide the legality of anything than the average pussy who can't even find the courage to take their eyes off of a smartphone as they walk through the world.

I'm ranting.

I'm gone.

a reply to: brace22

I believe in the use of 'traditional' weapons- a rifle for hunting and protection, perhaps a pistol under a pillow...I can understand that. However I really don't see the need for weapons that have a home on the battlefield and should not be in the home.

Gun enthusiasts I can understand, but why would anyone need high else powered assault rifles for any other reason then a hobby? I've said before why do some feel they need such an arsenal? It's not like the spetsnaz is going to knock on their door tomorrow. Not to mention that all the guns in the world will not save the preppers from a thoroughly trained militia or government force with a nations resources behind them-not in a world of drones and automatons.

a reply to: brace22

I live in an area that is frequented by bears, moutain lion, fox, coyotes....and very small cildren.

Besides making certain my own livestock is unmolested by these critters, it is imparative that small kids playing outside are safe. Our neighborhood watch is 35 miles long and we take turns watching out for our neighbors.

a reply to: MyHappyDogShiner
I'm sorry but alot of what you have said is very conflicting. You call people pussy yet reside in the fact that to diffuse situations you intimidate people with the threat of harm? To me that is the definition of what you dislike. Problems like that often do just leave because you have intimidated the person with possible death.

What you describe as a need I see as an ego trip. Although I won't judge you as I feel the rant went a bit too far and I don't believe you to hold all the views you typed.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: Martin75
That's what I am looking to see, genuine life experiences that helped you form the opinion you have. Thankyou

My life experience isn't limited to one event. My entire adult life has been spent dealing with the dregs of one society or another. I think people go one of two directions once they have "an experience." They either decide that it's not going to happen again and they prepare themselves for that, or they decide they can wave a magic wand and make all guns disappear and everybody will be safe.

I choose the former over the latter.

As I quoted to another member a few days ago: if you cannot kill, or are unable to, you will always be subject to those who can.

I know beyond a doubt that there are bad people in the world that do bad things simply because they can. If some of those bad people elect to try and do their thing to me and mine, I'm going to do everything I can to ensure they pay as dearly as I can make them for their decision. Beats the hell out of rolling over and hoping for the best.

To me, anyway.

originally posted by: jaws1975


3. To protect my family from out of control law enforcement and or government.

PLEASE NOTE: Using this quote as a example and not directing anything personally against the poster:

Can I ask - with the utmost respect - what other methods those of you who own weapons for this reason (among others) have used to avoid having out of control law enforcement and/or government?

Again, this isn't meant as a firebrand question, but to try to understand the mindset.
Are you politically active in removing corruption from these organizations?

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: brace22

I believe in the use of 'traditional' weapons- a rifle for hunting and protection, perhaps a pistol under a pillow...I can understand that. However I really don't see the need for weapons that have a home on the battlefield and not should not be in the home.

Gun enthusiasts I can understand, but why would anyone need high else powered assault rifles for any other reason then a hobby? I've said before why do some feel they need such an arsenal? It's not like the spetsnaz is going to knock on their door tomorrow. Not to mention that all the guns in the world will not save the preppers from a thoroughly trained militia or government force with a nations resources behind them-not in a world of drones and automatons.

Although they do have their sporting uses, its true that most people probably don't 'need' them. That being said, if we're going to argue that the public shouldn't be allowed to own them, then we must be able to prove a clear societal harm, and given the homicide stats, that's problematic at best. Virtually every other class of firearm is used at least as often as an 'assault rifle' to commit homicides, and handguns are used much, much more often. So what of those? If the AWB won't make a measurable dent in the homicide rate, and it wouldn't, then wouldn't you necessarily have to make the same public safety argument against handguns and traditional rifles and shotguns that are used at least as often in homicides as the 'assault rifles' that would now be banned?

And there you have the reason why gun owners have dug in their heels against an assault weapons ban.

a reply to: Shamrock6
I agree. Although I hope one day we can get past this mentality so we can truly become a civilised society.

a reply to: brace22

I'd say it's all down to fear. Those without fear those that have.

A viscious circle born in the "wild west".

All I feel is pity for those who have the dilemma.

a reply to: St Udio

No ,not at all,
they call us POTENTIAL terrorists if you are from the military or have martial skills like that.

a reply to: nerbot

That's what I say but be prepared for the backlash and the lack of acknowledgement from where these thought processes derived.

a reply to: brace22

I have read a couple of gun related threads where people have chimed in about owning a gun is a right, so that is all the justification you need. And yes, technically that is okay. However, I technically can have a 250mph car, do I need one though? I can technically have a 10 bed house, but I don't need 10 beds? I am not saying you shouldn't buy a gun. I simply just want to know, if you are in the category of not really "Needing" a gun, but have one, why?

Second amendment, nuff said. I am an absolute capitalist at heart, so yes I say even if you dont need it, but can afford it buy the fast car, and buy the 10 bedroom house. It is good for our economy and helps generate tax revenue.

See there, no endless debate, just a simple expression of our rights. The only things in the world you really need are water, oxygen, and food. You dont need the computer or tablet or smart phone you generated this thread with, or even ATS for that matter. You dont need your car AT all as far as being alive goes. You do not even technically need your home, as countless homeless have demonstrated. By law in this country, you do NEED to wear clothes in public, and it would be preferable to be warm in the cold.
But I live in Florida and on occasion enjoy the tranquility of a local nudist resort where I can bare it all. See, even I dont need clothes
There you go. Simple enough.

To the OP ...
I am a former army scout,Dad was a command pilot in the air force and my brother is a police detective.
I don't understand others fears or loathing of an inanimate object. NOR do I display my guns in their faces,that's RUDE.
I grew up with them ,some of the black ones look cool to me and I can't possibly work up any emotion because of ANY tool,once I learned about that tool and mastered them.
I wouldn't carry a gun everyday I carry a knife,however ,again, because I always have, they DO come in quite handy ,often as well.
They are dangerous when applied as such but could you equate such emotions to a kitchen knife on your counter?
Now put that knife in the hands of someone who wants to do you harm and that knife now becomes the object of fear.
It takes the PERSON to use it to cause the problem.
I f I was stupid enough to fire on a burglar with a .223 or higher caliber it would penetrate the walls and harm my neighbors,no good.
BUT what if I had MY rifle when the moron opened up on a parking lot up the road from me in Colorado?
I 'm an expert shot,I 'm good on the approach ..he wouldn't have had much of a chance and I wouldn't feel bad about killing an armed crazy.

To attempt to understand American gun ownership without coming here and shooting one of those nasty black guns ,is a half measure and will be met usually with the same derision we have towards all non gun owners who haven't bothered to learn about guns before they address the issue of disarming America.
If we put them DOWN ,WE will be overrun as a nation by our enemies ,as a citizen by criminals.
THAT is obvious to all ,no matter HOW you try and disagree THAT is the bottom line.
The potential list is FULL of villains no matter how you try and soft pedal the possibility of confrontation,they happen here ALL the time.
So would the fear of a tool cause YOU to be disarmed?