Truther Thread

originally posted by: Informer1958
you will now get a real idea what a OS supporters believe,

So let us have a look at the OS....
on 9/11 4 planes were hijacked, 2 were crashed into the WTC towers, one crashed into the Pentagon and the 4th one crashed into a field in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.

The damage and unchecked fires to WTC 1 & 2 evenntually bought those buildings down, the collapse of them also resulted in the destruction of St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church, Marriott World Trade Center (Marriott Hotel 3 WTC), South Plaza (4 WTC), and U.S. Customs (6 WTC) and 7 World Trade Center. It also damaged 5 WTC, the Deutsche Bank Building, the Verizon Building, and World Financial Center 3 suffered impact damage from the towers' collapse, as did 90 West Street. One Liberty Plaza survived structurally intact but sustained surface damage including shattered windows. 30 West Broadway was damaged by the collapse of 7 WTC.

That is what the OS is.

a reply to: NWOwned

Ya if that's an accurate number then ALL THIS over just THAT does seem ridiculous.

That is what he was saying the reason was though, except his number seems greatly exaggerated. Maybe the OP is correct about people like him pushing disinfo.

a reply to: samkent

They can't comprehend how the buildings came down.

They can't even agree with one another. Richard Gage and AE911 Truth have been slammed by a number of 9/11 conspiracy theorist and I've even posted videos of the confrontations and Steven Jones and 'VA Today' are at odds with one another over the WTC nuke hoax and Judy Wood, of space beam fame, has also slammed the WTC nuke folks. Now, we have the admission of Gordon Duff of 'VA Today' that much of what he has written about 9/11, is false and much of what he wrote has been used against me by the 9/11 conspiracy folks as well.

Not only has Gordon Duff and Jeff Prager lied about WTC nukes, but Steven Jones and Richard Gage have been caught lying as well. In fact, it was Steven Jones who duped a number of 9/11 conspiracy theorist over a video and a doctored photo of a flashlight reflections which he claimed, was molten steel. I posted the actual video to prove my point that Steven Jones took a number of 9/11 conspiracy theorist for a joy ride to fantasy land.

Alex Jones, David Chandler, and "Loose Change' have been caught pushing false information and the list goes on and on and in fact, Eddy Current posted a hoaxed video of WTC 7, which I made a reference to, and soon afterward, some of the 9/11 conspiracy folks came forward and actually used that hoaxed video in their argument against me, and the band played on.
.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: NWOwned

Ya if that's an accurate number then ALL THIS over just THAT does seem ridiculous.

That is what he was saying the reason was though, except his number seems greatly exaggerated. Maybe the OP is correct about people like him pushing disinfo.

I think to claim it is just THAT (and that alone) with whatever inflated incorrect estimates of fixing the problem would be wrong. I think by mentioning larger connections and stuff going way back he's not solely saying it was all just to save money on renovations.

Perhaps he will clarify if he thinks it's the main reason or it's just the tip of the iceberg of more.

Only a matter of time at this point.
JFK lingered because of one film,
9/11 despite major media's relentless
"nothing to see here,move along"
squash, has an immense amount of documentation
testimony and of course video .
Some truth, probably not all,
will find its way to the surface and soon I think.

Maybe a ray of light just like the one
those survivors who were in the stairwell
of the North Tower saw after the collapse .
Instead of what should have been acres of concrete on top of them.

Far Too Many Anomalies to put Sept 11 out to pasture.
The stakes are high fellow Americans, get ready.

originally posted by: Shamrock6
Do we high five now?

Hell no. Inside job, you say?

Silverstein made a buck ... sounds like "The Titanic" sorta, doesn't it.
3 buildings, defying physics with symmetric failures from asymmetric damage.
Building 7, free fall.
The US pledge to the UN, of two planes 24/7 guard ... on a holiday, due to training exercises.
Evidence piling up, passanger passports find themselves on the street ... with the name "Abdullah" on it, a real evidence of "THE ISLAM CONNECTION" (The butler did it).
Oh, never forget ... "the box cutter connection" ... a real reason, to "man handle" children at the flight gates.
Oh, did I miss that "Abdullah" learned to fly using Microsoft Flight Simulator?

come on guys ... are you trying to tell me, that there was a "cue" in da great US of A, and dat da president of da US of A, tried to cover it up (a real bad texas accent here), with some two bit story about "abdullah" and his friends? I know abdullah ... he's a bad o mofo, ya know. And are you trying to tell me, dat da good ol US of A, used dat "cue" as an excuse to make all their dreams in da middle east come true ... thinkin' they could swoop all dem flies down there in one big swoop, with their mighty US super power. While swooping all dem "cue" sons a beeches, like a magician?

Hell no (bad texas accent), I ain't buyin' dat for a dollar. I got my "tinfoil" hat on, so ain't no commie microwave gonna boil dis brain, y'all.

a reply to: bjarneorn

Silverstein made a buck ... sounds like "The Titanic" sorta, doesn't it.

Silverstein actually lost money thanks to 9/11 and even lost a court battle with the airlines.

3 buildings, defying physics with symmetric failures from asymmetric damage.

3 steel frame buildings collapsed in Thailand within 2 hours due to fire.

Building 7, free fall.

The time of 17 seconds for WTC 7 to collapse is not free fall or even near free fall.

...of two planes 24/7 guard ...

Our air defenses were not geared to intercept civilian aircraft within the borders of the United States. Our air defenses are geared to intercept enemy aircraft approaching our borders. One of the chapters that I have led has certain ties to an air defense unit in Alaska, which is the 477th Fighter Group, 302nd Fighter Squadron, Joint Base Elmendorf/Richardson.

on a holiday, due to training exercises.

We don't shut down our air defenses due to exercises. In fact, we conduct exercises thoughout the year, not just one day. Here are a few examples.

PRE-9/11 PREPARATION AND DEVELOPMENT

Drill Date Scenario
1 NORAD Between 1991 and 2001 Foreign hijacked airliner crashing into famous US building
2 White House, Richard Clarke 1998 Terrorists load Lear Jet with explosive, attack Washington DC
3 NORAD 1999-2001 Hijacked aircraft hit many targets, including WTC, MASCAL
4 Able Danger: DIA, US-SOCOM, LIWA Dec. 1999-2001 Manipulate al Qaeda; data mining (patsy control)
5 Stratus Ivy: DIA Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Operate on patsies “out of the box” (patsy control)
6 Door Hop Galley: DIA (?) Dec. 1999-2001 (?) Still secret (patsy control?)
7 Proactive Pre-emptive Operations Group (P2OG) unknown “Stimulating reactions” of terrorists (patsy control)
8 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ, NYC October 16, 2000 Terrorist crashes Federal Express plane into UN HQ NYC
9 NORAD (NEADS) Exercises: UN HQ NYC October 23, 2000 Terrorist crashes FedEx plane with WMD into UN HQ NYC
10 Pentagon MASCAL exercise Oct. 24-28, 2000 Commercial aircraft hits Pentagon, MASCAL
11 FAA drill December, 2000 Scenario: a chartered flight out of Ohio that had turned its transponder off
12 Positive Force ’01: NORAD plus a dozen agencies; worldwide April 17-26, 2001 COG; attacks on transportation; one scenario: terrorist group hijacking commercial airliner and flying it into Pentagon (Pentagon attack)
13 Unified Vision ’01: US JFCOM; US CENTCOM; US SOCOM: 40 agencies May 7-24, 2001 Invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan (prepared Operation Enduring Freedom)
14 Red Ex (Recognition, Evaluation, and Decision-Making Exercise); NYC OEM; FDNY; NYPD; FEMA; FBI May 11, 2001 Plane crashes and building collapses in New York City (WTC attack, demolition)
15 Amalgam Virgo ’01: US-Canada multi-agency drill; NORAD; SEADS; Coast Guard, Army, Navy June 1-2, 2001 UAV drone launched from rogue freighter in Gulf of Mexico or cruise missile from barge in Atlantic Ocean; Joint Based Expeditionary Connectivity Center (JBECC) mobile radar command center tested. (Pentagon attack)
16 Mall Strike 2001, Westmoreland County, Pennsylvania (near Shanksville); 600 local first responders and emergency managers June 16, 2001 Toxic chemical agent and the simulated release of radiation and radiological contamination; (indoctrination of first responders).
17 FAA Drill: FBI Miami field office, Miami-Dade County Police Department. Summer 2001 Varig airlines Boeing 767 hijacked over Florida
18 Ft. Belvoir, Davison Army Airfield helicopter base MASCAL June 29, 2001 Scenario based on plane hitting Pentagon (indoctrination of first responders).
19 US Department of Transportation Hijacking Exercise August 31, 2001 US Dept. of Transportation Crisis Management Center drilled hijacks; simulated cell phone calls.
20 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Tokyo to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Mum Hykro” to Vancouver and San Francisco
21 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 6, 2001 Seoul to Anchorage flight hijacked by “Lin Po” to Seattle
22 NORAD, NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 9, 2001 UK to NYC flight hijacked, blown up
23 NORAD SEADS NEADS (Vigilant Guardian) September 10, 2001 Ilyushin IL-62 from Cuba hijacked by asylum seekers, lands at Dobbins Air Force Base in Georgia
24 FBI training exercise in Monterey, California for FBI/CIA Anti-Terrorist Task Force Through 9/11 Diverts top FBI, CIA anti-terrorist and special operations agents and heavy equipment away from Boston, NYC, Washington DC
25 NORAD annual readiness drill, Cheyenne Mountain, CO (Vigilant Guardian) 9/11 Full ‘battle staff’ levels to test entire organization
26 Vigilant Guardian: NORAD, NEADS, US-Canada 9/11 Live-fly hijacking and air defense; hijack multiplication, diversion and confusion
27 NORAD/JCS Vigilant Warrior Through 9/11 Reported by Richard Clarke
28 Operation Southern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 174th Fighter Wing, New York Air National Guard, to Sultan Air Base, Saudi Arabia, to impose no-fly zone over southern Iraq
29 Operation Northern Watch Through 9/11 Diverts 6 fighters from Langley AFB sent to Incirlik AFB, Turkey to impose no-fly zone over northern Iraq
30 Operation Northern Vigilance Through 9/11 Diverts fighters, 350 personnel to Alaska and northern Canada to counter a Russian bomber drill
31 Operation Northern Guardian, Keflavik AFB, Iceland Through 9/11 Diverts fighters from Langley Air Force Base (Virginia) deployed to Keflavik AFB, Iceland to counter a Russian bomber drill
32 Red Flag, Nellis AFB, Nevada: 100 pilots 9/11 Diverts most F-15s of 71st Fighter Squadron, Langley AFB, VA; DC ANG’s 121st Fighter Squadron of Andrews Air Force Base also depleted.
33 Andrews AFB local drill 9/11 Diverts 3 F-16s to North Carolina
34 National Reconnaissance Office drill, Chantilly, Virginia 9/11 Simulated plane crash into high-rise government building; satellite imaging (WTC attack)
35 Tripod II, New York City 9/11 Response to biochemical attack; run from backup command center at Pier 92, Hudson River.
36 Fort Meyer VAEducation Centertraining drill for local firemen 9/11 Assembled and indoctrinated Pentagon first responders.
37 Timely Alert II, Fort Monmouth, New Jersey 9/11 Indoctrination of WTC first responders.
38 World Trade Center Emergency Drill, Fiduciary Trust Co., 97th floor, South Tower 9/11 Meeting called to assemble and silence unreliable outside contractors?
39 Global Guardian, STRATCOM: Offutt AFB, Nebraska; Barksdale AFB, Louisiana; Minot AFB, North Dakota; Whiteman AFB, Missouri. 9/11 Nuclear warfighting; Armageddon. (deterrence of Russia and China during invasion of Afghanistan and Pakistan)
40 Amalgam

passanger passports find themselves on the street ..

Passports have been known to survive fiery air disasters. Case in point.

Passport Survives Fiery Air Disaster in Nepal
.

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: vjr1113
this thread is not complete without this and this . have fun

This is the reality

of truther research!

Well, if you think that's silly, guess how NIST proved the aircraft knocked all the fire-proofing off.....it involves a shotgun. But I'm sure you already knew that...

originally posted by: samkent

originally posted by: wildb

originally posted by: cuckooold
I used to be a 'truther'. Over the years I have come to the conclusion my original views are now untenable, and I now believe the WTC was brought down by 2 airliners crashing into the building.

Does that make me a shill or paid disinfo agent?

No it does not, in fact I often wonder myself, then I go back and look at this video, and realize I am on the right track.

So to believe the video you posted:
Each floor had explosives ready to go.
Each floor was blown in a downward sequence.

And yet no one who was in those lower floors noticed 70+ floors worth of demolition cords.
And where did these cords terminate? Jersey?
Someone had to push the button. Did he sacrifice himself?

If the idea was to kill as many people as possible, why not push the button as soon as the plane hit.
Why drop the second building hit before the first?

It's easy to make the claim of explosives.
But you can't explain the details.

Wow and you mock truthers.

First, note that the demolitions could have been controlled using wireless detonators, which have been commercially available for decades. Attack Scenario 404 describes how the charges could have been activated via radio signals in a precise fashion controlled by a computer.

911research.wtc7.net...

a reply to: whatsup86

First, note that the demolitions could have been controlled using wireless detonators, which have been commercially available for decades.

That's funny as I have found an ad for the worlds 'first wireless detonator'.
It's dated Feb 2011.
Here

Can you show wireless systems in use back in 2001 that could handle 2 buildings, 70+ floors each?

a reply to: samkent

Odd. Here's a patent from 2000.

Link

originally posted by: wildb
I am tired of arguing with people who buy into the OS.

I would like to discuses the many event's of 911 and the many unanswered questions with like minded people.

Some of those things for example would be what the Federal Reserve did that day, the gold, Kurt Sonnenfeld, the brokers ect. as well as the destruction of the buildings..

So if anyone likes this idea please join in and lets talk. If you believe the OS is true this thread is not for you..

This is a topic? No more then a paragraph and its OK to make a topic like this?

ATS.....

a reply to: wildb

So if anyone likes this idea please join in and lets talk. If you believe the OS is true this thread is not for you..

This is one of the biggest problem with not just 9/11 conspiracies but conspiracy theories in general you only want to talk with people who agree with you and believe what you do. This totally eliminates the critical element of critiquing your hypotheses and without this any kind of crap can fly!

Basically with the attitude of the OP you are willingly dismissing everything that revokes your theories just to maintain the illusion of the grand false flag conspiracy.

This is how you embrace ignorance not deny ignorance.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I took this more as thread that was saying "we know the OS is basically just a lie, so what do you think really happened, and why?"

I, personally, am open to anything as to why the WTC buildings collapsed except the OS. However, the moment NIST releases their modelling data for public peer review and it is confirmed as accurate, I will accept it. For as long as that information remains under lock and key, I refuse to accept the official explanation as anything other than false.

After reading 7 pages, I decided to "risk" to write some (or a lot of) words. Be patient (or not).

A disclaimer though: I'll attain myself to the thread, and will not give a dang about those who persistently try to demerit its intentions.

I think that truthers are not really seeking for the "how", truthers are really looking for the "why" and "who".
The how is unnimportant. If it were really airplanes or nanothermites it makes no difference for the result is exactly the same: thousands of people dead, buildings destroyed, sense of security gone, trust vanished.

It's when it comes to the "who" that it really gets scary: was it the US gov? Was it the terrorists, who found a breach in our system? Was it the jews? Now analyse carefully: why would you want to know who did it?
Because you want to know whether you've been sleeping with the enemy or you are depositing your trust in the wrong people. Maybe you'll seek revenge. Maybe you think you can get rid of them.

Nevertheless, the answer of "who" will hurt badly. It will likely destroy all your previous believes and everything/everybody you relied on.
Now, let's assume for a second you found out "who", regardless you are not the same person any longer, the next thing you want to know is "why".

"Why" is also, technically, unnimportant, however, you want to learn, for your personal satisfaction, why you had to change your self, your habits, your behaviour, why did people died, who can you trust, could you have prevented it, can you keep from happening again.

But trully why is it that you wanna know all that? for two reasons: first, you want to make sure it worth it, and second, you surely don't want to repeat the same mistake again.

Having said this, the conclusion is: deep down we all know that regardless of who authored such dreadful action (and that hurts even more) a few things will remain unchanged: yes, you are still sleeping with the enemy for you don't know him; yes, the enemy did it for the lamest reason you could possibly imagine (lame in your opinion, not in theirs anyways); no, it probably didn't worth it; and finally, yes, you will repeat the same mistake again because you never managed to find out the truth....

and this, ladies and gentlemen, is why you can discuss as much as you want, the truth will never be revealed, so they can continue doing what they do for whatever reason they see fit.

some truthers probably touched the truth many times but let go unknowingly, this is why there are so many hypothesis, so many desinformation, not because "they" don't want to be caught. They do it because they can.

What's left for us to do? Keep strong. Teach your kids the principles of moral, respect, and real values. This was nothing but just another test, and if we insist on "sticking on how", we'll be giving our next generation away, then we failed.

Too much??

then I dunno

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

I, personally, am open to anything as to why the WTC buildings collapsed except the OS.

And once again this perfectly sums up the problematic attitude that conspiracy theorists have, "I will believe anything just not the historically accepted version of events."

I don't really have a problem with this thread now that i think about it, if a bunch of "truthers" want to gather together and have a little natter about what they think happened then they can go for it but it doesn't make them less wrong or more right on anything.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

You're ignoring the rest of what I said. The reason I refuse to accept the OS is because it has not fully presented the evidence for its case. NIST's model data being kept private is unacceptable, regardless of what actually happened.

"HIstorically Accepted"?
By who?
Need I remind you that for 54% of the world's population, God creating the universe, or presiding over humanity, is an accepted historical fact?

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: bjarneorn


Silverstein actually lost money thanks to 9/11 and even lost a court battle with the airlines.

Really? (chuckle)

I borrow a lot of money to buy a building, then the buildings collapse and I get cash ... which I pay up the loans, and up with cash ... when I rebuild (If I ever do), I'll only have to borrow 1/3rd of what I borrowed before ... or less, and end up with a building, that doesn't need 20 times that much in "cleansing" abestos.

Oh, he made a LOT OF money ... you just don't know how to count cash.

3 steel frame buildings collapsed in Thailand within 2 hours due to fire.

You gotta be kidding me, really? wow.

U.S. regulations of buildings structural integrity is equal to that of Thailand ... ha. thanks, tells me never to invest in a building in the US or advice any human being of doing that ... ever.

Now, I don't know what sort of education american people get, they sure don't sound educated when you listen to this crap ... but take the stretch, melt figures of a steel frame requirement, and compare it with the burning temperature of some office equipment.

But, I guess the people of the US "know" that "cow's can fly" and that the "tooth fairy really exists".

The time of 17 seconds for WTC 7 to collapse is not free fall or even near free fall.

Oh my God, it actually wen't down SLOWER than the towers, that fell in 10 seconds! Jesus Christ almighty. Man, from the time it started to fall, and until it was done ... I counted between 4 and 5 seconds. The official time is some 6,7 seconds ... but you, man ... got it ALL THE WAY UP TO 17 ... geesh.

You must be very slow dude.

Our air defenses were not geared to intercept civilian aircraft within the borders of the United States.

Really ... this must be one of the most pathetic crap, I've ever read ... what on earth do you think, those planes were supposed to intercept?

UFO's?

They were supposed to intercept ANYTHING, that was out of the ordinary, that could pose a threat to NY and the UN in particular.... 24/7 guard.

We don't shut down our air defenses due to exercises. In fact, we conduct exercises thoughout the year, not just one day. Here are a few examples.

Ya sure did, on 9/11 ... unless it was intentional inside job.

Passports have been known to survive fiery air disasters. Case in point.

Case in Point? Case in POINT?

I'm not even going to REMARK on the racist crap, that a passport with the name "ABDULLAH" on it, is used as proof of the ISLAMIC connection within hours of the incident.

But, I guess I did ... didn't I.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: wildb

Did know that Afghanistan had rich veins of "Lithium" that the United States wanted, now we can understand why the Russians where really in Afghanistan in the 1970's.


All the concrete was blown into dust, that does not happen when a building just collapse, like from earth quakes.
Perhaps that might help explain why they had tracking devices on their dump trucks, to make sure there were no stops on the way to the dump site.

The US has its own supplies of Lithium. Here is a list of the top 8 producers: www.thestreet.com...

The concrete was not "all blown into dust." Check your sources.

Carry on.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

NIST's model data being kept private is unacceptable, regardless of what actually happened.

I totally agree with you but its one detail, quite a jump to go from this to "OMG FALSE FLAG!!!", when really most of the events of that day have been explained.