University of Louisville hiring for Assistant Professor - Whites and Asians need not apply

a reply to: Menrva

So what I get from your post is that Americans do not value higher education and that Women, especially minorities, are not in great number? Is that correct?

Because I know plenty of people born and raised in the US, some female and some minorities, and with hard work they have all made it. With hard work. I don't care what color or sex you are, in today's society, it is hard to find the job you want. I also think it is not fair if someone is qualified but they are not hired because you need to make numbers.

There was a case in the NW with a teacher and the school would not hire anyone but a minority but since none were qualified for months are there was were substitutes. Was this really fair to the students?

What makes you think that a Hispanic, African American or a Native American are not the most qualified? Your statement is racist.


a reply to: DBCowboy

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

Enjoy your 1,000 person classes while you wait for black and women applicants to science, tech, and engineering at the college level.

That is not only a racist view, but a sexist one as well. At the University I currently attend, there are more many black and Hispanic males who hold professor positions, as well as some females, than white males. The only issue here is that many of them come from other countries that highly value education, unlike many Americans. To say that women and minorities are absent in the STEM arena it's ridiculous. However, there is still a very large gap between white males and women/minorities in the work place.

Then there is no need for AA if minority hold most the offices even if from abroad!

If not enough American minority’s are in those positions it seems to be a problem with high school education and American laziness, not race!

a reply to: Menrva

Do you know that for certain?

My husband's work would disagree with you. He works with lots of women in a STEM profession and has hired mostly women himself. He also works in the UN basically as part of an international company with people coming from all over the world.

Perhaps your work experience and the numbers you are seeing aren't as telling as you think they are?

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: Menrva
Statistically, minorities are very underrepresented in most universities around the nation. Having been an employee at two different universities, there is quite a gap between the amount of white, male professors and the amount of women or minorities. From what I have witnessed, professors who get hired, minority or not, are not hired only because of skin color, but on merit as well. So to say that affirmative action has no place in the society of today is wrong. When women and minorities are employed at the same rate, and pay, as white males, only then will affirmative action no longer be relevant.

Sometimes, some groups either do not have the skills or the interest in certain things.

Have you ever wondered why there are so few black professional swimmers but so many black professional athletes in football and basketball for example? Clearly, it doesn't have anything to with athletic ability. It is a cultural preference for one; blacks tend to not swim as much.

When looking at jobs requiring high linguistic/language facility, women tend to dominate. Does that mean men are being discriminated against? No, it just means men don't tend to develop the facility with language women do.

When looking back at our mining days, the foremen at mines tended to be heavily Welsh and similar - men whose families came from places that had coal mining pasts in Europe. They had cultural experience and actual experience. It didn't mean anyone was discriminating against nationalities that didn't have mining cultural backgrounds; those immigrants just tended to not seek out mining jobs or have the experience with them when they did.

Actually I have never wondered why there are more blacks in this sport as opposed to that one, as they base on talent and merit. To say that preference should be given to a group that is lacking in a certain type of work and who have the education /experience is something that we all should be supportive of, in order to start making the playing field available to a broader group of people . I have personally witnessed blatant racist disrespect to minority groups having worked in an ethnic program. So it is still alive and kicking in the world. e

So since blacks are prevalent on the athletic field, everything is A-OK and we don't need to wonder why there aren't more of other ethnic groups? How racist of you. Maybe there are whites out there deserving of a spot ... or Hispanics ... or Asians. What about Asians? Why don't we see more Asian football or basketball players?

But if as you say they DO base that on talent and merit, then how do you know other positions aren't being decided similarly? Are you just arbitrarily deciding that certain groups MUST have a certain amount of representation in order to be sure that they are receiving fair consideration?

I've been on the receiving end of discrimination and seen it happen to, but it works on all sides from all peoples. You will never fully eliminate it. Affirmative Action simply enshrines it into law, and it gives people like yourself a crutch. If someone doesn't get the job or not enough people get the job, then you can simply assume there was discrimination whether there was or not. Believe me, HR dept. go out of their way to recruit the right kind of people these days to make activists happy, but there is often a dearth of candidates.

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: Ksihkehe

Enjoy your 1,000 person classes while you wait for black and women applicants to science, tech, and engineering at the college level.

That is not only a racist view, but a sexist one as well. At the University I currently attend, there are more many black and Hispanic males who hold professor positions, as well as some females, than white males. The only issue here is that many of them come from other countries that highly value education, unlike many Americans. To say that women and minorities are absent in the STEM arena it's ridiculous. However, there is still a very large gap between white males and women/minorities in the work place.

The science community recognizes the low interest in their field when it comes to women and minorities. The numbers are quite easy to look up National Science Foundation. That pdf shows doctoral degrees awarded. There's plenty of data on undergrad and graduate studies on the NSF website. It's also not hard to find articles about it, do a google search for women and minorities in STEM. What's ridiculous is attributing a statement to me that I never made. I never said women and minorities are absent in STEM. Based on numbers it's quite clear that they are underrepresented.

That's great that your university has good representation from women and minorities, but the situation there is not representative of higher education in STEM across the country.

When you call somebody a racist or a sexist without cause you are watering down the impact of words that should be taken seriously. Just remember that if you cry wolf all the time people will eventually stop paying attention.

Really, all we should do is make it understood and clear that the way is open for those who want to go, not seek to make some kind of mythical quota. In some places, certain people are going to be a minority and anyone who goes there will have to understand they are going to be a minority and live with that.

I was one of two girls in my high school advanced chemistry course. I lived with that rather than be intimidated by being in a room full of boys. Oh well, I deserved to be there and wanted to be there, and we all got along.

Yes, pretty, athletic, smart teen-aged girls are always at such a disadvantage in any academic situation with teen-aged boys ... that's exactly the same thing as entrenched racial discrimination.

Anecdotal evidence (that has nothing to do with the matter at hand) is always so telling in these situations.

However, the job posting outlined in the OP was clearly inappropriate and was taken down. Problem solved (probably before any individual was damaged or discouraged from applying for a position.)

All the right-PC wailing and gnashing-of-teeth here is simply the garden-variety reactionary response we've all come to know and love from our more reactionary friends here. Never miss a chance to make it a racial issue in our so-called "post racial" times ... eh?

a reply to: Gryphon66

You assume I was pretty.

At least one of those same boys in that same class had called me the ugliest thing he'd ever seen on a prior occasion.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Gryphon66

You assume I was pretty.

At least one of those same boys in that same class had called me the ugliest thing he'd ever seen on a prior occasion.

There's always one that doesn't have any idea of how to express his actual feelings.

I'm sure you were a pretty girl, as well as smart and capable ... but it does take some time for boys learn that intellect is what is really attractive in people. /shrug

I'll give you that claim is my opinion only.

originally posted by: Menrva

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: Menrva
What will happen when the social engineers succeed in this master plan of workplace diversification?

Will people suddenly find themselves unable to think a racist thought?

Offering minorities and females the same opportunities and positions that have historically been given to white males does not equal the eradication of racism. However, it does help those that are just as qualified chance to also get ahead in society and follow their version of the "American Dream".

The positions are already "offered." Anyone can apply for any job in this country, and by law employers must only consider the applicants qualifications. Race, gender, religion, etc are not supposed to be a factor. That's the fair way to do it.

What you are talking about is giving certain people an unfair advantage based on their race, gender, etc, and that is the very definition of institutionalized racism. 'Affirmative action' is just a euphemism.

Personally, I'd be insulted if someone offered me a job because of my skin color or gender. My qualifications should be all anyone needs to know.

Right-wingers are only interested in "fairness" when it comes to being opposed to Affirmative Action and similar efforts.

All other times, the first words out of their mouths (or fingers) are "life's not fair; people are not equal."

I agree that we absolutely do need to rethink AA and other such programs at this point ... the time for such ideas, questionable at best, has certainly passed in this country (because you don't end discrimination by discriminating)... but I'm still amused at the paradoxical positions that reactionary PC sometimes has to maintain ... LOL

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: thejeremybenthem

Affirmative Action wasn't about any kind of retribution or revenge. It was about bringing about equal treatment and ending discrimination. When Affirmative Action becomes discriminatory in its own right, then it has outlived its usefulness.

By the way, perfect summation of the facts of this matter. I shouldn't have sniped at your comment about your highschool chemistry class ... by the way. Totally inappropriate on my part. Beg pardon.

a reply to: Gryphon66
The problem is that the left has a warped understanding of the word 'fair.'

To me, fair means giving everyone the same opportunities for success.

To the Progressive left, fair means picking and choosing who is most deserving of success.

a reply to: theySeeme

Not sure about america but in the UK that would be illegal. Employing someone based on sex, race or colour is illegal, regardless of trying to increase minority numbers to meet a government backed quota.

And if you are correct and they did nothing wrong/illegal then why remove the advert, as it did nothing wrong and helped promote the new employment initiative.

Positive discrimination is equally as damaging to people's lives as normal discrimination.

a reply to: ketsuko
Bad example with the swimming. It's being scientifically proven why black people aren't as good swimmers. One of the very few flaws physically. Not racist, a stereotype with measurable science. Different muscle structures in the legs.

You are correct that many don't have the option/choose to do it though.

a reply to: Menrva
There is a very good reason women get paid less when compared to males in equal positions. What is the likely hood the male will fall pregnant and offer no productivity for over 4 months, while the business has to pay for it. I know if I was employing someone I would want high productivity less paperwork. Women do often forget this aspect. Men didn't have this benefit for a very long time.

Secondly have you ever heard the phrase " a woman's work is never done". That is why they are paid less....lol. (famous joke)

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: theySeeme

Not sure about america but in the UK that would be illegal. Employing someone based on sex, race or colour is illegal, regardless of trying to increase minority numbers to meet a government backed quota.

And if you are correct and they did nothing wrong/illegal then why remove the advert, as it did nothing wrong and helped promote the new employment initiative.

Positive discrimination is equally as damaging to people's lives as normal discrimination.

We are talking about America not the UK. Secondly, they removed the advert because they knew people would blow this out of proportion without knowing all of the details. Also entirely likely they hired someone already as well - thus it's removal. Is it illegal to remove something like that?

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

No, I'm absolutely left-wing (in the actual meaning of the term) and I understand the meaning of the word "fair" perfectly.

I noted clearly that Affirmative Action and simliar programs have reached a flawed state in many cases, because, again, you can't end discrimination by discriminating.

As to the rest, I feel that for the most part you're speaking in generalities and what you're claiming is simply untrue. You don't speak for "the Progressive Left." Who are you even referring to? "The Left" is hardly uniform or homogenous, which is why the right-wing in America gets away with so much BS.

You guys are fairly unified. Leftists, as the supporters of individualism and equal rights, are usually all over the place.

originally posted by: rossacus
a reply to: ketsuko
Bad example with the swimming. It's being scientifically proven why black people aren't as good swimmers. One of the very few flaws physically. Not racist, a stereotype with measurable science. Different muscle structures in the legs.

You are correct that many don't have the option/choose to do it though.

I'd love to see a citation for your "scientific proof" here.

Got links?