Christians: How do you interpret Revelation 21:8?

a reply to: Seede

AMEN!!!

a reply to: ChesterJohn

These books are God inspired to these Holy Men as they were moved by the Holy Ghost and are scriptures and preserved for us today.

mmmmmm.......

No.

They are imaginings; by people with imaginations and limited/warped worldly "sophistication".



(PS: I feel moved by the Holy Spirit every day to refute the idea that the Bible is anything but propaganda. NOW do you believe me?)

a reply to: Akragon

there were no personal attacks against you. We are discussing your mind set but there is no attack against you. you see we know your mind as well. there was no slander all things we spoke are true to your own words about Paul, which you said on many occasions throughout ATS religion threads before. And by these very words we can know your intent and mind set as well.

We cannot judge your salvation (though it looks like you are a lost person) but we know the God who does know, and we are known of him personally.

The back and forth is not so much about you personally but about what you say and its implication to the topic at hand, "understanding of Scripture". We use God's preserved words to check his words because that is comparing spiritual things with Spiritual.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But you use the wisdom of man to try and understand that which can only come by the Holy Ghost and comparing spiritual with spiritual, w/o the Holy Ghost men will often turn to other men i.e. scholars for their wisdom but that wisdom is foolishness compared to that of God's Preserved wisdom as found in scriptures both the Old and New.

Let me repeat what we do so that all are clear.

1) we have faith in God's promise that he has preserved his word to our generation in English that we can hold in our hand.

2) we compare spiritual things with spiritual.

3) We believe all scriptures is inspired of God that includes all of Paul's letters and the entirety of the New Testament as found in the Holy Bible.

4) we correct those who are in error and after two times we reject them, their views and intentions as prescribed in the scriptures.

5) There is salvation in no other than than the Name of Jesus, and it is through faith one gets saved not of works lest one should stand before God and claim they did it on their own. Because all our righteousness is as filthy rags before God.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

NO I don't believe you were moved by a hly spirit. Because if you were moved by a holy spirit you would not deny the Holy Bible as inspired and preserved.

a reply to: JDmOKI

No there are no Christians within 20 verses either direction.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Let me repeat what we do so that all are clear.

1) we have faith in God's promise that he has preserved his word to our generation in English that we can hold in our hand.

...

3) We believe all scriptures is inspired of God that includes all of Paul's letters and the entirety of the New Testament as found in the Holy Bible.

You have "faith" and you "believe."
That does NOT equal "knowledge."

Instead, it equals faith and belief in a bunch of stuff that long-dead persons decided to 'compile' and call "God inspired." With no proof whatsoever. Doesn't make it true ---- just makes it something you believe and have faith in, with no evidence and no question.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

NO I don't believe you were moved by a hly spirit. Because if you were moved by a holy spirit you would not deny the Holy Bible as inspired and preserved.

No?

Hmmmm.
Because, I am sure I was.....(and I said I was!) inspired by the Holy Spirit. Still am.....all the time. Every day, actually. Inspired to disabuse those who are laboring under the utter fallacy of the misguided ideas they adhere to.
Same as Paul and Mohammed. You calling me a loony liar? And not a teacher?

Yeah. Think it over.
I said I was inspired by the Holy Spirit! That should be good enough for you, methinks. I said it, and I wrote it, because the Holy Spirit told me to.
How do you know I'm not??? Because I denied something that some other person said 2000 years ago, or 1400 years ago?


You have no way of knowing whether what I write is divinely inspired or not. (And neither do I!) You also have no way of knowing if anything they wrote was divinely inspired, except that they said so. (And neither do I!)

Love,
Your Friendly Educated Neighborhood Agnostic

a reply to: ChesterJohn

there were no personal attacks against you.

Actually I wasn't talking about you...

One of your fellow Christians basically reduced my knowledge of Christianity to the equivalent of a sunday school student... the other is trying his best to bait me into admitting im a gnostic, pushing the idea that I believe I know everything ... what would you call that?

At least Seed apologised, which is greatly appreciated...

In any case you don't need to explain how Christianity works, I've been hearing this same thing my whole life...

Let me repeat what we do so that all are clear.

Ok lets...

1) we have faith in God's promise that he has preserved his word to our generation in English that we can hold in our hand.

That does not make it truth just because you believe in it... Your truth perhaps, but truth is subjective and varies according to the individual...

2) we compare spiritual things with spiritual.

As do I... And I don't consider damning people, judging people, or the concept of "faith alone" to be spiritual

We believe all scriptures is inspired of God that includes all of Paul's letters and the entirety of the New Testament as found in the Holy Bible.

that is your prerogative... And one does not have the right to force that belief on others... Nor do others need to adhere to that belief system because you believe its right... especially IF said person does not accept your preferred label

we correct those who are in error and after two times we reject them, their views and intentions as prescribed in the scriptures.

I don't seem to recall that passage... And IF you're referring to when Jesus said kick the "dust off your feet" you best read that passage again... Unless you happen to consider yourself an apostle, it does not apply to you personally... or any Christian for that matter

There is salvation in no other than than the Name of Jesus, and it is through faith one gets saved not of works lest one should stand before God and claim they did it on their own. Because all our righteousness is as filthy rags before God.

Quoting Isaiah doesn't help your idea that "Faith alone" is what Jesus taught...

He didn't ever teach such a bogus concept

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Get that?

You are clean Though the words I've given you... And his words prescribe WORKS of the spirit, NOT faith alone

And don't start with this "faith must come first" garbage... there are people who have no faith in God, but they do great things for people... And IF you believe these people are damned just because they don't believe what you happen to... you are the one that is lost my friend... Listen to Paul... Lead yourself astray

a reply to: ChesterJohn

We cannot judge your salvation (though it looks like you are a lost person) but we know the God who does know, and we are known of him personally.

So - you're gonna "tell on him" to God Your Dad?

"Dad, there's this kid down the street (you've never met him) and he's horrible. And his dad's a con-artist. Exterminate them."
lol

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Don't worry...

The demiurge isn't my God... Nor is any Triune entity

a reply to: Akragon

Yeah, I know. I live in your neighborhood, not his. I got your back.

a reply to: Akragon

What makes the Bible True is that God said it.

Akragon, it is very difficult to go back and forth with you seeing you do not rightly divide the scriptures as instructed in 2Tim 2:15

We are not under the Kingdom Gospel (From John the Baptist to the Calling of Paul), we are under the Gospel of the Grace of God (from Paul until now).

that said I exit

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Akragon

What makes the Bible True is that God said it.

Akragon, it is very difficult to go back and forth with you seeing you do not rightly divide the scriptures as instructed in 2Tim 2:15

We are not under the Kingdom Gospel (From John the Baptist to the Calling of Paul), we are under the Gospel of the Grace of God (from Paul until now).

that said I exit

See that's because your best weapon in these discussions is Pauls words just as most Christians, where as my only weapon and line of defence is the words of Jesus in these discussions... Jesus always trumps Paul...period

That being said Paul is no one to say one must rightly divide anything since he actually corrupted the words of Jesus almost immediately... bringing the idea of Faith alone into the equation

And Jesus did not teach grace... Nor did he even use the word

Though if we must speak of "rightly dividing scripture"... I do that as well...

I divide the words of Jesus from the rest of the books within the bible, and even in some cases the narrative within said books

And by the way, God didn't say anything... nor was anything in the bible written by God... It was Written by men, many of which were just as confused about God as Christianity is today.... and again, just because you happen to believe God "said it"... does not make it true

a reply to: Akragon

See that's because your best weapon in these discussions is Pauls words just as most Christians, where as my only weapon and line of defence is the words of Jesus in these discussions... Jesus always trumps Paul...period

I do see some of the difficulty between you and me. You hate some of the letters of the NT and mostly those of Paul. You hate Paul. That is your problem. You refuse to accept that Saul/Paul is loved and revered by Jesus. But you are not alone in this mindset. Most of what I read on ATS is of the same mindset.

That is why Revelat6ion 21:8 is not understood by most. That is why I have tried to open the discussion in regards to Revelation 21:8 -- Chester John has tried to reason that faith is the answer and not works but he used Saul/Paul as his source. The Scriptures do teach that you will not enter the kingdom of heaven without faith. It cannot be done with works alone. You can be the best guy in town without the faith in Jesus Christ and you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Then again you can be an outlaw and thief and die on the tree beside the Christ and with faith alone you could enter the kingdom of heaven. Not only could this happen but it did happen. Now don't ask for proof because we are talking about faith are we not?

Now let us apply this same thought to Revelation 21:8. John has written that a thief who does not overcome that sin will be cast into the lake of fire. Not a word of forgiveness here in chapters 21 and 22. Faith is not here at all and because faith is not here these people are under law or as you can read commandments. The human race is now gone and with that, faith is also gone. These people do not need faith because they are living by evidence and proof. They see the New Jerusalem and they see the guards at the gates and they see the saved ones going in and out of the city.

All Chester John has said that Paul taught us is true. But it is only true if one has the faith that it is true. If you do accept that this is not true then by your lack of faith it is not true to you. But by faith it is true to myself and Chester John. Proof does not enter into faith. They are opposites in this understanding.

a reply to: Seede

one thing I have seen over the years is the manufacturing of faulty weaponry for the saints. More and more English Bible come out and more and more of the so called scholars are putting out commentaries that gender more strife and less faith in the word of God.

IN todays world the Christian is left holding a sword in their hands that are made of faulty materials of faulty men. That cannot stand up in time of spiritual battle.

Many are not trained to hold their sword right or how to use it. But the sword of the word (Eph 6) is sharper than any two edged sword (H 4eb) "piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

They have swords with big chunks missing, they have swords that are dull, swords that are broken and it is evident in what we see around us today.

But the sword I hold in my hand has ALL the words of God in it and they are preserved by God just as he had meant in the Originals (none available today at all) and they are all contained in one book, that I can go to and read and study and learn and grow.

The sad part is many do not know they can have the sword of God's own making to fight the spiritual battles of life. they pass by the best for the less.

Sorry for going off track

a reply to: Seede

You hate some of the letters of the NT and mostly those of Paul. You hate Paul. That is your problem. You refuse to accept that Saul/Paul is loved and revered by Jesus. But you are not alone in this mindset. Most of what I read on ATS is of the same mindset.

Hi. Excuse me for interrupting.

"hate" is the verb you are using to accuse Akragon. You say he "hates."

Then you turn around and say he "refuses to accept."

There's a BIG DIFFERENCE between dismissal/refusal and hatred.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

What makes the Bible True is that God said it.

Really?

You sure you want to go there?????, because....

there's this thing:



It's a thing. It's a thing that proves how unable some people are to think Critically.....
"critical thinking", ya know.


Possibly a couple of grade-levels ahead of where you are, though.
That's okay. Keep paying attention, and someday you might get the idea.

Task #1: OPEN YOUR MIND.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

TextThere's a BIG DIFFERENCE between dismissal/refusal and hatred.

No, they are connected as to the some intended statements. One can hate and not accept or one can hate and accept. It depends upon the usage. I can hate abortion and not accept it through physical action against it or I can hate abortion and accept it as civil law. It would also apply to most here on ATS. One can hate religions and not accept their right to a forum for religious discussions by spending time and effort in trying to destroy their faith or one can hate religions and simply accept a religious forum in which Christians can encourage and educate themselves in religious education. You see it depends upon the avenue of usage.

By the way shouting by keyboard is not polite. It would be much better if you used either the bold or underlined signatures.

Now that your English lesson is completed what have you to offer as to this thread? Can you expound your wisdom as to Revelation 28:1 ? I am trying not to derail this thread. It is a very good thread and deserves more discussion.

a reply to: Profusion

"But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Silly atheist, you don't know when to quit. It might behoove
you to realise, this is the one verse in the Bible. That informs
how you get exactly what you hope for in the first place. The
" Second death " erases your existence. You get your way.
It isn't Gods fault that the only way he can give you that, is
by fire. And not by just any fire.

When evil has finally had it's say. And the remaining hosts in
Heaven see with out doubt our Father in Heaven is just and
true and righteous in his judgement. There will no longer be
any tolerance for those whom he can not trust. That's where
you'll be satisfied finally.

So stop profusely snivelling all over ATS looking for a way out?
It looks like a mental defect like an obsession or a personality
flaw. You already have it, even in the word. Doesn't mean it
won't suck.