Why did Noah Curse his Son Ham's Son Canaan?

originally posted by: infolurker

Ham’s son Mizaraim also contributed to the Nephilim lineage. In verse 14 we have the first mention of the Phillistines (whose forefather was Phillistim), the nation of the giant Goliath. Calshuhim was the father of Phillistim and his family later resided in Capthor in the Promised Land. So we see the direct origins of the Philistines, one of the most heated enemies of the Israelites, who also carried the Nephilim gene.
In fact, as will be shown, the Philistine nation was the final “hideout” for the remnant of the Nephilim giants. And they can be traced back to Casluhim, the son of Mizraim and grandson of the evil Ham.

Is nePHILIm where the word PHILIstine comes from? Interesting that Ham's lineage went in such a direction, especially taking into consideration the curse on his offspring.

On the other hand, Japheth migrated north through the Caucus mountains, giving rise to the Caucasian race in Europe (they became light skinned likely due to northern latitudes [less sun = less required melanin]). Shem gave rise to the Semites in Asia (Middle East).

5th Century Map of Noah's Descendants

I have a question, do you guys actually believe this stuff or is it just an intellectual exercise.

a reply to: Spider879

I myself believe the KJV Bible in a literal sense. so in answering the question of the OP it is clear why. No need to seek any further.

The Bible as most scriptures are is mostly allegory.


Now the versus about the 10 commandments are not allegory

Nor are the versus about raping the heathens woman or stoning children allegory, unfortunately.

So I hope people don’t take those versus literally anymore

a reply to: Willtell

The Bible as most scriptures are is mostly allegory.

And how do you determine that various letters by various authors are penned as allegory? Who in the world would teach such a thing to you? You can't be serious. You must have chosen the battering bunch of bashers here on ATS.to feed your mind with such untruths.

a reply to: Seede

I know it is crazy to think that, but you would be surprised how many believe that.

You see if it is allegorical then it has different meanings to different people and there is no solid literal application.

But if it is literal that opens a whole new ball game for them and they must play by the rules.

originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Willtell

The Bible as most scriptures are is mostly allegory.

And how do you determine that various letters by various authors are penned as allegory? Who in the world would teach such a thing to you? You can't be serious. You must have chosen the battering bunch of bashers here on ATS.to feed your mind with such untruths.

Do you know what an allegory is?
al·le·go·ry
noun: allegory; plural noun: allegories

a story, poem, or picture that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning, typically a moral or political one.
"Pilgrim's Progress is an allegory of the spiritual journey"

synonyms: parable, analogy, metaphor, symbol, emblem
"Saramago's latest novel is an allegory of social disintegration"

a symbol.

Is a symbolic story.

The Bible is filled with them. Not all of it is but much of the stories are allegories including the God created everything in a few days.
An allegory IS NOT necessarily a story that has many meanings it is a story that has symbolic meanings for various levels, namely 7.

The story of the Garden of Eden is an allegory and the Garden is a symbol for an aspect of our consciousness

Some of the stories may have their degree of literality

And as I said the Ten Commandments are verses that are NOT allegories obviously

But those stories, such as this Noah tale are allegories.

An allegory (because it’s just a story) can be literally true to a degree and have hidden and symbolic meanings also.

a reply to: Willtell
let me show you a true allegory as identified in Scripture

Ga 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Except for some dreams in the scriptures, which were interpreted, all other scripture are clear. This is the only one said to be an allegory and it is also interpreted for us.

There are no hidden meanings behind scripture because then God could not claim,

Ps 119:130 ¶ The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Willtell
let me show you a true allegory as identified in Scripture

Ga 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Except for some dreams in the scriptures, which were interpreted, all other scripture are clear. This is the only one said to be an allegory and it is also interpreted for us.

There are no hidden meanings behind scripture because then God could not claim,

Ps 119:130 ¶ The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

People are liable to what they understand and know

What Jesus knows is more than the average person, so Jesus taught in parables in order to communicate on all levels of understanding.

For instance, to the 3 wise men he might communicate the higher spiritual laws in a parable

To the simple believer he might communicate the idea of doing good to their neighbor in the same parable

The 3 wise men get both levels but the simpler man will only understand( at that time and place) the idea of doing good to others....So he gets knowledge and guidance for his level which is sufficient for him then

And the 3 wise men get what they can understand on their higher level, and as well the other level that the simple believer understands

That’s why he taught in parables often and that’s why allegorical stories are taught because they can communicate on all levels of understanding within the story or allegory

In spiritual growth it is a formulae called: include (the knowledge of the simpler man) and transcend (the knowledge of the 3 wise men

That way, people develop their spiritual knowledge overtime and in their own capacity

You’re quote refers to Isaac and Ishmael whose father Abraham was the progenitor of the Jews, through Isaac, and through Ishmael, the Arabs.
The two covenants is God’s promise to the children of Isaac and Ishmael through Abraham

The allegory refers to the different circumstances of the two mothers of the two descendents and one is allegorized in relation to slavery because the Jews recorded that Hagar, Ishmaels mother, was a slave and Sarah, Isaacs mother, was a freedwoman and juxtapose the holy city of Jerusalem, symbolically, towards the freedwoman.

The Arabs disagree with that somewhat but generally agree with this synopsis

Hers further elucidation on this point

The Bible contains many instances of allegory used to explain spiritual truths or to foreshadow later events. The clearest examples of allegory in Scripture are the parables of Jesus. In these stories, the characters and events represent a truth about the Kingdom of God or the Christian life. For example, in the Parable of the Sower in Matthew 13:3–9, the seed and different types of soil illustrate the Word of God and various responses to it (as Jesus explains in verses 18–23).

The story of the Prodigal Son also makes use of allegory. In this story (Luke 15:11–32), the titular son represents the average person: sinful and prone to selfishness. The wealthy father represents God, and the son’s harsh life of hedonism and, later, poverty represents the hollowness of the ungodly lifestyle. When the son returns home in genuine sorrow, we have an illustration of repentance. In the father’s mercy and willingness to receive his son back, we see God’s joy when we turn from sin and seek His forgiveness.

www.gotquestions.org...

a reply to: Willtell

Every Parable Jesus taught was interpreted for you and us in the scriptures. there is no other meaning that to that which is already revealed.

Are you speaking of the three wise men who followed the star to Bethlehem?

If so that is simply historical narrative of event of the time. It is no allegory. there is a lesson and application for today but it is not a allegory. These men were taught by tradition the teachings of Daniel and they being taught in Astronomy were waiting for that star to come and followed it knowing that Gods king was born and it took them two years to get there according to the scriptures.

The Allegory I showed you already explains the Allegory in the context. Ismael was man doing the work to give a child to Abraham. Isaac is the fulfillment of God's promise to do the work himself in giving Sarah child for Abraham.

Unless you have the Holy Ghost to compare spiritual things with Spiritual you will not know the truth, and you will create confusion in your heart and in those who believe in your words.

a reply to: Willtell

a parable is a real life events used in a teaching to convey a point.

An allegory is where certain things stand for something else as shown in the Allegory of Sarai (spirit) and Hagar (flesh).

The prodigal son again was real life events meant to convey a simple message of repentance. Turning away for sin and the results of it, and turning to God and receiving restoration. It is a simple story that teaches very simply.

originally posted by: Plantagenet
So people guided by God, such as Noah guided by God, tend to curse the sons of the person doing the wrong doing?

As for homosexuality i don't see any evidence of less, in fact I see more of it within the Catholic church scandals that scandals any where else.

That alone should tell you all you need to know about the validity of the Catholic religion.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I never said the 3 wise men story was a allegory, It may have been but I used it as an example of simple people and wise people who make a living seeking higher knowledge.

You're quibbling over semantics.

The original point I made was that scriptures have allegories in them…that’s my point.

I've proven my point.

If you don’t see that or won’t acknowledge that then that’s your problem

I'm not interested in going over what is an allegory and what isn't

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Willtell

a parable is a real life events used in a teaching to convey a point.

An allegory is where certain things stand for something else as shown in the Allegory of Sarai (spirit) and Hagar (flesh).

The prodigal son again was real life events meant to convey a simple message of repentance. Turning away for sin and the results of it, and turning to God and receiving restoration. It is a simple story that teaches very simply.

I'm under the impression that truth manifests on multiple levels: literal, symbolic, etc. For example, Jesus is the light of the world, literally and symbolically.

a reply to: Willtell
like I said if all scripture is, is allegory then everyone has their own interpretation and application for it.

You need to know what an allegory is compared to other figures of speech like a metaphor, hyperbole, parable and so on and so forth.

The only Allegory God used in his preserved word was as shown above. If you try and see something that is not there you will wrest the scriptures to your own destruction.

Go to scriptures in Child like faith then the scriptures will open up. But first you must have child like faith in Christ for your eternal salvation.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

I didn’t say ALL scripture was allegory

I said some of the versus are direct like the 10 commandments. This is obviously not allegory


And much of it, I don’t really know the percentage, is allegory.

That’s all I am saying.

It’s axiomatic; it’s nothing to waste a lot of posts

With all due respect, you have no knowledge of who I am, what I know, so I don't need you to advise me to become a child.

For all you know I might be Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost

so chill

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Willtell

a parable is a real life events used in a teaching to convey a point.

An allegory is where certain things stand for something else as shown in the Allegory of Sarai (spirit) and Hagar (flesh).

The prodigal son again was real life events meant to convey a simple message of repentance. Turning away for sin and the results of it, and turning to God and receiving restoration. It is a simple story that teaches very simply.

I'm under the impression that truth manifests on multiple levels: literal, symbolic, etc. For example, Jesus is the light of the world, literally and symbolically.

That’s all I was trying to say, scriptures are--very elaborately and wisely--written on 7 levels of understanding by the higher realities some people call God. Each level is discernable to people according to their understanding.

a reply to: Willtell

If it were so God would have said so and salvation would not be by faith alone on Jesus Christ.

There are no levels of understanding but it is true as you mature in God's word you will learn more and more. there are no levels of understanding only your spiritual growth determines how you understand and grow in Christ by the power of the Holy Ghost.

You find that teaching in Masonry, in Rosecruxionism, you'll find that in New Age Mysticism, you'll find it in buddhism, Hinduism, you'll fine it in Satanism, but not in Christianity.

No secrets with Jesus Christ, all is laid bare before him and he before you in the scriptures. You need only come to him in child like faith and believe he dies for your sins, was buried in your place, Rose again to give you eternal life. There is no way to the father but through Christ Jesus.

a reply to: Plantagenet

To look upon the nakedness of your father is to have sex with your father's wife. Ham's son was the result of him having sex with his own mother. aka...incest


Leviticus 18